Cant live with us(US);cant live without us(US)

It is pretty apparant form this op-ed that People, (Europeans or Asians) can’t live with us (U.S) or cant live without us (U.S.). See the comments in bold. Obviously it is a one mans opinio (an op-ed) but quite an interesting read.

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/01/20/opinion/20friedman.html?oref=login

Watching George Bush’s second inaugural from a bistro in Paris is like watching the Red Sox win the World Series from a sports bar in New York City. Odds are that someone around you is celebrating - I mean, someone, somewhere in Europe must be happy about this - but it’s not obvious.

Why are Europeans so blue over George Bush’s re-election? Because Europe is the world’s biggest “blue state.” This whole region is a rhapsody in blue. These days, even the small group of anti-anti-Americans in the European Union is uncomfortable being associated with Mr. Bush. There are Euro-conservatives, but, aside from, maybe, the ruling party in Italy, there is nothing here that quite corresponds to the anti-abortion, anti-gay, anti-tax, anti-national-health-care, anti-Kyoto, openly religious, pro-Iraq-war Bush Republican Party.

If you took all three major parties in Britain - Labor, Liberals and Conservatives - “their views on God, guns, gays, the death penalty, national health care and the environment would all fit somewhere inside the Democratic Party,” said James Rubin, the Clinton State Department spokesman, who works in London. “That’s why I get along with all three parties here. They’re all Democrats!”

While officially every European government is welcoming the inauguration of President Bush, the prevailing mood on the continent (if I may engage in a ridiculously sweeping generalization!) still seems to be one of shock and awe that Americans actually re-elected this man.

Before Mr. Bush’s re-election, the prevailing attitude in Europe was definitely: “We’re not anti-American. We’re anti-Bush.” But now that the American people have voted to re-elect Mr. Bush, Europe has a problem maintaining this distinction. The logic of the Europeans’ position is that they should now be anti-American, not just anti-Bush, but most Europeans don’t seem to want to go there. They know America is more complex. So there is a vague hope in the air that when Mr. Bush visits Europe next month, he’ll come bearing an olive branch that will enable both sides to at least pretend to hold this loveless marriage together for the sake of the kids.

"Europeans were convinced that Kerry had won on election night and were telling themselves that they knew all along that Americans were not all that bad - and then suddenly, as the truth emerged, there was a feeling of slow resignation: ‘Oh well, we’ve been dreaming,’ " said Dominique Moisi, one of France’s top foreign policy analysts. “In fact, real America is moving away from us. We don’t share the same values. … In France it was a very emotional issue. It was as if Americans were voting for the president of France as much as for president of the United States.”

That sense that America is now so powerful that it influences everyone else’s politics more than their own governments - so everyone wants to vote in our elections - is something you hear more and more these days.

Elizabeth Angell, a 23-year-old American studying at Oxford, told me that a Pakistani friend at school had asked her if he could just watch her fill out her absentee ballot for the U.S. election. "He said to me, ‘It’s the closest thing I am going to get to voting. … I wish I could vote in your election because your government affects my daily life more than my own.’ "

The one concrete result of the U.S. election will probably be to reinforce Europe’s focus on its own efforts to build a United States of Europe, and to further play down the trans-Atlantic alliance. “When it comes to emotions, the re-election of Bush has reinforced the feeling of alienation between Europe and the U.S.,” Mr. Moisi said. "It is not that we are so much against America, it is that we cannot understand the evolution of that country. … This election has weakened the concept of ‘the West.’ "

Funnily enough, the one country on this side of the ocean that would have elected Mr. Bush is not in Europe, but the Middle East: it’s Iran, where many young people apparently hunger for Mr. Bush to remove their despotic leaders, the way he did in Iraq.

An Oxford student who had just returned from research in Iran told me that young Iranians were “loving anything their government hates,” such as Mr. Bush, “and hating anything their government loves.” Tehran is festooned in “Down With America” graffiti, the student said, but when he tried to take pictures of it, the Iranian students he was with urged him not to. They said it was just put there by their government and was not how most Iranians felt.

Iran, he said, is the ultimate “red state.” Go figure

Re: Cant live with us(US);cant live without us(US)

Read it this morning. Look, a lot of people hate the Yankees. That's ok...and sometimes the Yanks might lose..that's ok. But they are god's team and God loves the yankees. So if you hate the Yankees, then come judgement day, you are fked. think about it.

Re: Cant live with us(US);cant live without us(US)

Some people should just not be allowed to write for newspapers. We must maintain the image the human society does have a medium level of intelligence.

Re: Cant live with us(US);cant live without us(US)

Steinbrenner is the devil incarnate.

I think the commentary on the liberalism of Europe are right on. The arrogance of the liberal left is just astounding however. Rather than accept that there are two valid views, liberals have assumed that anyone that does not agree with them are simply profound idiots.

Oddly enough, I think Bushs speech may clear up a lot of things. It was always my view that the WMD arguement to go into Iraq was to placate liberal Europe and to galvanize them into action. But the real agenda was exporting liberty. Ultimately bush would have been better off to go with his instinct, which was to get rid of Saddam based on his history of human rights abuses, rather than the threat he posed. It would have been more intellectually honest, and very difficult to criticize.

Read an interview with an Iraqi from Ramadi today. When asked if he was going to vote, he answered, "When am I going to get paid?". There are those who still have no understanding of liberty, and the price that is to be paid. The youth of Europe have conveniently forgotten.

Re: Cant live with us(US);cant live without us(US)

Nobody here could be accused of that right? :rolleyes:

Re: Cant live with us(US);cant live without us(US)

Europe as a whole is like a guy who runs a Samosa and PikoRa stand on a train station and dreams about setting the policy for the entire Railway System. You will never see any Greek worried about who Italians elect; a German never worried about who Brits elect, a Portuguese never concerned about who is elected in Austria; but they all collectively want to shove their hollow heads up America’s ass.

Re: Cant live with us(US);cant live without us(US)

^^ Thank you and hence the name of the thread "cant live with US nor without US". But I know that you know and we all know that truth hurts.

Re: Cant live with us(US);cant live without us(US)

Yes Verizon, I concur and a very opt name of the thread. The other reason for such a need for the Europeans to shove their head up American’s ass is because there’s nothing much going on in Europe since 1944. Their big news these days is a teenager arsehole dressing up as a Nazi SS officer to a party. Imagine that.

Re: Cant live with us(US);cant live without us(US)

^^ OH how accurate. You should be the new Moderator. These europeans should bow down and worship US, for what US did for them in WWII. Not only that we liberated them from the evildoers we re-built the whole entire europe. Thankless people. I think the whole Europe should be kicked out of UN, the world would be a better place. We'll get a lot done faster and sooner. I mean these europeans just dis-agree for the sake of argument.
Pathetic (and thats a generous word).

Re: Cant live with us(US);cant live without us(US)

The arrogance of the US regime is just astounding however. Rather than accept that there are two, or more valid views, the US regime has assumed that anyone that does not agree with them are simply profound idiots.

As for the WMD - the US regime lied KNOWINGLY, it already knew there were no WMDs there - see program for New American Century PNAC). So please do not come preach to us about truth, freedom, liberty, democracy, human rights, etc. Also just stay put in your own country and sort out the plight of your own growing no. of poor and miserable. Let us sort out our own mess without your meddling. Get your bases our from around the world.

Re: Cant live with us(US);cant live without us(US)

Verizon, I agree; and look at the above reasoning that AKA is giving. If there were no American bases in Europe, the Soviets would have turned all of Western Europe into a pig farm. These thankless shcmuks make me proud to be an American; and that we are destined to do the right thing regardless of what the losers think. It is never about Us versus Them… It is Us versus Evil. Here these morons need a building permit from their parliament to build a mosque (that’s the case with 6/8th of EU countries) and they have the audacity to talk about Human rights. Go and fk yourself you morons. When you have Nazis and Fascists come trampling on your doorsteps; give us a call. We will always be there. That’s the kind of people we are.

Re: Cant live with us(US);cant live without us(US)

"Also just stay put in your own country and sort out the plight of your own growing no. of poor and miserable. Let us sort out our own mess without your meddling."

And there you have it folks, the perfect contradiction. Two weeks ago we had all sorts of handwringing that the US was not doing enough for tsunami victims with the veiled implication that our contribution was small beacuse the victims were Mulsims. TODAY we are to stay home and tend to our own poor?

Can you hear that pendulum break the speed of sound as it snaps back and forth?

Re: Cant live with us(US);cant live without us(US)

Once again a U.S president is inaugurated and the whole world listens intently. I can't even begin to start pasting links from newpapers all over the world specially the UK ones. Proof again cant live with us cant live without. Hey anyone heard of if you cant beat 'em join 'em. We embrace the world with open arms. Come to dada now. The tribe has spoken.

For you Urdu/Hindi Lovers

Jub Subha Ka Bhola Shaam ko Gahr lot aye to us ko maaf kar do. Tum sab maaf ho aaab ayo aur Uncle Sam keh Tat.... ahh..... galay millo

Re: Cant live with us(US);cant live without us(US)

yeh a collateral damage of 100,000 is exporting freedom allright. Freeing innocent people of their exsistence. That aside why don’t u so called “freedom propagators” propagate freedom in let say parts of Africa where millions of people have died due to civil wars and dictators.?

Re: Cant live with us(US);cant live without us(US)

^^ Oh hold your horses man , we are getting there. One thing at a time.

Re: Cant live with us(US);cant live without us(US)

^well why get there last? The massacre in Iraq was abt a decade ago but the killings in AFrica are relatively new.

I am totally in agreement with this "freedom export" program only if it is uniformly applied and just not to nations with lots of oil and people of a religon you hate.

Re: Cant live with us(US);cant live without us(US)

Lussi, because africans haven't rammed any planes into our buildings.

P.s. study for you GMAT.

Re: Cant live with us(US);cant live without us(US)

But Lussi, the dilemma is that no matter what the US does, it is always criticized. If it gets involved half the people say it is bad, the other 2/3rd says its good, so the question is what to do? The address this question, US does what it feels that it ‘can do’ and what’s the ‘right’ thing to do under the circumstances. And while doing that, it doesn’t really care what others may feel. Because if the other nations who are giving all these advices as to what to do, and what not to do, should get off their butt and do something themselves.

:jhanda:

Re: Cant live with us(US);cant live without us(US)

matsui, that is correct. Their only purpose was free labor.

I was only commenting on OG's post who said that the real reason to go to Iraq was for this whole "freedom" thing. That has is just bullcrap.

I already took GMAT. I got 1650 :)

Re: Cant live with us(US);cant live without us(US)

Matsui, are you implying that Africans can't fly?