Can you justify Democracy from Islamic shariah ???

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Assalam-o-alikum …

Allrite guys.. Its a very sensitive issue.. and i am aware i am going to be offensive to all the supporters of democracy and to ppl who beleive in freedom of speach/act/live…

Can anyone bring out any acceptable idea that Islam ever supports democracy..

Islam is a complete “Deen” ( a life style ) and all the instruction (“orders”) come from Allah Almighty, and No human is even suppose to justify/judge the orders in his own views. Either follow it or leave it..

and Most importatnly As specified in Quran at numerous location that Allah is the only Supreme emperror, and he is the Ruler , and only his order is to be Followed.

then how can people come in power, pass out their own laws, against the LAWS of Allah and Prophet Muhammad (SAW).

The constraints of Democracy in history clearly shows, Humans whenever adopted to become in power theirself they have always chosen to go against the LAWS and Shariah of Allah.

Does human being think that they are smarter than Allah, and bring up any better or equal system of Justice/government/lifestyle/social setup as given by Allah ?

My understanding is Democracy is Evil as well as All other systems practiced or in practice Other than The Rule of Allah. ( including the Rule of Single person as being Emperror )

P.S : Please do not take my points in a smallers perspective, think Globally and keeping in view all the history u know.

and please no discussion for the sake argument and counter strike..

2

Wasalaam.. to answer this question, I'm quoting from something I had posted a year ago....

Maulana Maududi's works about the nature of a state founded on the principles of Tawheed, Risalat, and Khilafat made it clear that the Islamic system is a democratic one.

What distinguishes Islamic democracy from Western democracy is that whilst the latter is based on the concept of popular sovereignty, the former rests on the principle of popular Khilafat.

In Western Secular democracy, the people are sovereign; in Islam sovereignty rests with Allah and the people are his caliphs or representatives. (Khilafat literally meaning "representation".)

In Western Secular democracy, the people make thier own laws, in Islamic democracy they have to follows the laws (Shari'ah) given by Allah through His Prophet (pbuh).

In Western Secular democracy, the government undertakes to fulfill the will of the people; in Islamic democracy the government and the people who form it have one and all to execute the instructions of Allah.

In brief, Western democracy is a kind of absolute authority which exercises its powers in a free an uncontrolled manner, whereas the Islamic democracy is subservient to the Divine Law and exercises its authority in conformity with the injunctions of Allah and within the limits prescribed by him.

3

The issue here is about democracy not a play with words, democracy simply is man made laws to be implemnted by man. To say Islamic democracy is shariah is wrong !!! Shariah is shariah to call it democracy is just to suit the kuffar and having islamic and democracy in the same sentence just isn't plausible.

4

Yes

Democracy is man made laws

Islam does'nt have concept of man made laws total contradiction they are not compatible!

islam has its own systems and own laws not based on man biased views and desires :)

5

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ak47: *
islam has its own systems and own laws not based on man biased views and desires :)
[/QUOTE]

And hence you have Islamic democracy where you are not allowed to pass man made laws, and instead interpret and apply the laws that Allah SWT has already laid down.

Rather than electing people to pass new laws as in western democracy, Islamic democracy involves electing people to interpret and apply the Shariah.

6

The above sounds like the Maulanas want all the power! So then you have the situation as in Iran, where the elected officials have little power and the judiciary that interprets the Sharia overrules and overrides the Parliment every single time. I think eventually the muslims around the world over will see through this power grab by the mullahs and reject it.

http://www.msnbc.com/news/847682.asp?0dm=N327N
Time to expose the Mullahs by Fareed Zakaria.
…
They point out that it holds elections, has a reformist president, and its women have more political rights than in many Arab countries. But Iran’s democracy is a sham. The president, Mohammed Khatami, is a figurehead, allowed to give high-minded speeches and do little else. Almost three quarters of the way through his reign, he has accomplished virtually nothing by way of political reform. In some ways Iran is more closed today than it was when he was elected in 1997. For example, more than 80 reformist newspapers have been shut down in the last few years.

…
The mullahs have all the money and power.
The clerics have created a network of supporters and enforcers who keep things tightly under control. There are several shadowy gangs of thugs—the largest of them a Hitler Youth-type group called the Basij—that go around terrorizing people. They operate above and beyond the law, breaking up demonstrations, even those that have been approved by local authorities. Then there is the secret police. One of the ironies of Iran today is that the mullahs came to power riding a wave of fear over the shah’s dreaded Savak. But the only institution of the old regime that has been maintained, indeed fortified, has been the Savak, now called the Savama.
…
should make a major effort to publicize the mullahs’ greed. It can obtain—from Switzerland, Luxembourg, wherever—the hard evidence that will show Iranians that their sainted leaders are as corrupt as Africa’s worst tin-pot tyrants. Iranians already suspect this, but they cannot know the extent of the damage.

7

Flamezz...bro

U've already hit the nail on the head, and u've understood it well,so why the need to bounce ur ideas off anyone else ?

What you have said is correct, and yes, islam has no room for democracy.

Demo - derived from demographic, meaning People
and crates - meaning power

Democrates...meaning people power.

As Rasool(saw) said, "sultan min allah" Authority is with Allah.

Those of us who like to appease the kuffar like to use terms such as "islamic democracy".
Its a contradiction in terms.
How can u have authority of allah co-exist with authority of man ?
inconceivable,incompatible

8

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by eemo: *
Demo - derived from demographic, meaning People
and crates - meaning power

Democrates...meaning people power.

As Rasool(saw) said, "sultan min allah" Authority is with Allah.
[/QUOTE]

Islamic - In compliance with Islam
Democrates - people power

Islamic democracy - people power subservient to the Divine Law and which exercises its authority in conformity with the injunctions of Allah and within the limits prescribed by him.

The power the people have in Islamic democracy is not to pass laws, but rather to interpret and implement those that Allah SWT has already made clear.

9

Mad scientist

What is islamic democracy it is contradiction in terms

It like saying islamic alcohol or islamic pig no such thing!

Call islamic laws islamic laws not a western term which clearly means man made laws!

Can you see the point.

10

I'm sorry bro ak47, but I still see no contradiction.

"Democracy" merely means the people have the power. Such unqualified power means they can do whatever they feel like.

"Islamic democracy" means people have as much power as Islam decrees they should have. They can no longer do whatever they feel like - they are limited to obeying Allah's Law.

The word "democracy" in itself does not donate that the people can only follow man-made laws. It donates that they have the ability to follow whatever laws they wish - man-made or not.

The word "Islamic" in "Islamic democracy" is important because it takes away this freedom to follow either man-made or divine law. Under Islamic democracy, following divine law (i.e. Shariah) is the only option the people have.

11

The Quran is pretty detailed, but its no constitution. It has limits and guidelines for one to follow on how to set up laws and things like that...but we fill in the holes.

So thus, a democracy would be halaal, but it would have to be a different type of democracy. And YES, democracy comes in many flavors, and NO democracy is not MAN MADE LAWS NECESSARILY. Its a form of government run by the consent of the people...and if people consent to Quran being the guideline, then that would be where u derive your laws from, and if the people want Quran AND shariah...then that would be the democratic form of gov't.

Basically, I think it boils down to your definition of democracy...it can be an abstract word even though the dictionary has a convenient definition for it.

12

Can people actually read up on waht democracy is, pyari is the people are looking to quraan and sunnah for guidance that isn't democracy that is the Islamic Ruling System !

13

Democracy-
1. government by the people; a form of government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised directly by them or by their elected agents under a free electoral system.

2.People Rule themselves by themselves with the system they choose
Muslim don't have choice not to belive in islam obvious contradiction with democracy

  1. Democracy makes human being the legislator and not the creator Allah makes the laws not biased human beings

Democracy means a lot more than just elections or consultation. The Oxford English Dictionary defines it as: "Government by the people; that form of government in which the sovereign power resides in the people as a whole, and is exercised either directly by them

Sovereignty means supreme power. Popular sovereignty, which is the essence of democracy, exists when the people as a whole have the final say on everything, and are the ultimate reference point for legislation and the constitution. In practice, democratic states, commonly known as republics, have elected parliaments that pass laws by majority.

This contrasts sharply with the Islamic concept of sovereignty. Muslims are not allowed to run their affairs any way they please, but have to rule according to what Allah has revealed. So, for example, the people cannot decide by majority to make interest (riba) lawful or prohibit jihad. Thus, sovereignty resides with Allah (SWT) and His Shari'ah.

conclusion being democracy does not mean simply voting and therefore it is clearly giving all power to humans and giving them choice to decide which laws they like and which they dont. Man made laws!

14

Fresh: "looking to quraan and sunnah for guidance that isn't democracy that is the Islamic Ruling System !"

WRONG! Every form of government looks to SOMETHING OR SOMEONE for guidance. You said it yourself : "guidance". The american constitution has been guided by The Roman Empire, Greeks, Athenian democracy, and Christianity.

Americans have filled in the holes. Now if you had a muslim population, who WANTED TO LIVE ISLAMICALLY, then those holes might be filled differently.

15

WRONG ak47 - you, as a freethinking individual have the RIGHT TO CHOOSE if you want to 1. be a muslim. 2. live like a muslim 3. want to live in an "Islamic" state.

The consequences for actions will be decided by God, and darnit, God is all merciful. If one rejects the message, they pay the price.

Secondly, you can live in an Islamic state and not be muslim -- you just need to pay an extra tax, which replaces the fact that you dont pay zakat.

As for Allah makes laws...he's covered the basics which most nations cover anyway, unless if they're totally unhuman - like Hitler.

Punishments are perscribed for certain, NOT ALL, crimes. In effect, you're given a moral guideline to design the government by, but whether the MODE OF ORGANIZATION - ie parliamentary system, council of wise bearded men, representation from different parts of the land, whether to even have representation, etc is entirely up to you.

Proof: In the Quran, God has talked of monarchs which He approves of, and we all know the particular design the Prophet took on of governance.

Laws change from time to time according to circumstances and the Quran is a direct proof of this since it was revealed over a long period of time, rather than in one shot...issues were dealt with as they were come across.

One more thing, marital rape, according to most guppies here, is wrong. The Quran doesn't address the issue directly. So are u to tell me since God made no explicit ruling on it and its not mentioned in the Hadith, that the issue should not even be addressed? And no, i'm not talking about women who dont want to have sex w/their husbands just to be mean, I'm talking about women who have pain during sex or are uncomfortable with the way their husbands emotionally treat them as oppose to sexually treat them, etc...

Another example, the Hudood Ordinance, although fundamentally is not unIslamic, is being carried out all wrong. Women who are raped get charged with adultery. How does an Islamic state deal with the issue? Or do we go flipping through the Quran to find an ayat that deals with the subject (it doesn't exist, by the way).?

16

[QUOTE]
WRONG ak47 - you, as a freethinking individual have the RIGHT TO CHOOSE if you want to 1. be a muslim. 2. live like a muslim 3. want to live in an "Islamic" state.
[/QUOTE]

your first 3 points are refuted by one ayah alone:
"No believing man and no believing woman has a choice in their own affairs when Allãh and His Messenger have decided on an issue." (33:36)

[QUOTE]
Secondly, you can live in an Islamic state and not be muslim -- you just need to pay an extra tax, which replaces the fact that you dont pay zakat.
[/QUOTE]

I don't know why you mention this point because i never argued against such a notion yes non muslim can live in islamic state what is your point here!

No the way the government is setup must be based on evidence from islam and from action of the sahabah which is taken as evidence also we cannot choose any old system for example we cannot have french republican system or a monarchy for example!

"This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed my favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islaam as your religion" (5:4)

The deen is complete as allah says nothing needs changing all situations are covered if it is not then ijtihad is done to get a solution such as cloning which has been done. Islam is practicle since it started and also untill yawumah kiyamah(day of judgement) when israfeel who has the horn at their lips at this moment blows on the horn.

As for rape it is clear death sentance is passed on person commiting crime of rape. Woman shouted to muhammad(Saw)that man did such and such to her " They seized him and brought him to Allah's messenger, who said to the woman, "Go away, for Allah has forgiven you," but of the man who had had intercourse with her, he said, "Stone him to death." (Tirmithi and Abu Dawud)

17

Democracy Is Disbelief

Although most Muslims are no longer under the direct political control of the Western colonial powers, many, including some scholars, have been influenced by the ideology of their former occupiers. One of the capitalist concepts most commonly held by these Muslims is that of democracy.

DEFINING DEMOCRACY

Democracy means a lot more than just elections or consultation. The Oxford English Dictionary defines it as: "Government by the people; that form of government in which the sovereign power resides in the people as a whole, and is exercised either directly by them (as in the small republics of antiquity) or by officers elected by them." 'Lord' Hailsham, in his book 'The Dilemma of Democracy', says that the only proper use of the term is in respect of 'popular sovereignty and nothing else...Sovereignty can reside in an individual, a selected number of citizens or the whole adult population. Only the last named can be properly called a democracy'.

SOVEREIGNTY

Sovereignty means supreme power. Popular sovereignty, which is the essence of democracy, exists when the people as a whole have the final say on everything, and are the ultimate reference point for legislation and the constitution. In practice, democratic states, commonly known as republics, have elected parliaments that pass laws by majority.

This contrasts sharply with the Islamic concept of sovereignty. Muslims are not allowed to run their affairs any way they please, but have to rule according to what Allah has revealed. So, for example, the people cannot decide by majority to make interest (riba) lawful or prohibit jihad. Thus, sovereignty resides with Allah (SWT) and His Shari'ah.

"No guardian have they apart from Him, since He allots to no one a share in His rule." [Al-Kahf:26]

"Whosoever does not judge by that which Allah has revealed, such are disbelievers." [5:47]

"O you who believe! Obey Allah, obey the Messenger of Allah and those in authority amongst you; and if you have a dispute concerning any matter, refer it to Allah and the Messenger if you are (in truth) believers in Allah and the Last Day." [4:59]

'ISLAMIC DEMOCRACY'?

Some Muslims compare the Islamic system of ruling with democracy, and claim that they are essentially the same thing. They argue that since in Islam it is the people that choose the ruler, and because there is shura (consultation), therefore Islam equals democracy.

As mentioned above, democracy does not only refer to elections, but even if it is used in this sense to describe the Islamic system, it is not allowed. This is because it is prohibited to use words that have a meaning contradicting Islam to describe it. More important, though, is the thinking that leads to the idea of 'Islamic democracy'. It appears to come from an acceptance of democracy as the standard by which the system revealed by Allah should be judged, and an attempt to match Islam with it. This is often done as an apologetic reply to those who describe the Khilafah, the Islamic ruling system, as a dictatorial, and the answer is given in such a way as to please the opponent.

Furthermore, analysis of the concept of an 'Islamic democratic system' reveals that it consists of an elected legislative assembly, no different from the parliaments found in Western democracies. It is this kind of erroneous thinking that has lead some to describe republics like Iran, Pakistan and Sudan as 'Islamic'.

CONCLUSION

It is clear form the above that democracy is a system of disbelief. We must realise that there is no comparison between the system revealed by the Creator and imperfect man-made systems. The Khilafah ruling system should be accepted as it is; a unique political structure that is neither dictatorial nor democratic. What is required is to liberate ourselves from intellectual slavery to the West and to accept only Islam as the reference point for solving our problems and running our affairs.

18

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by PyariCgudia: *
As for **Allah makes laws*...he's covered the basics which most nations cover anyway, unless if they're totally unhuman - like Hitler.

[/quote]

Gudiya..
First of all , you must clear this thing that the Deen is complete in all aspects. all you need is a keen and concentrate reading of Quran and to find out.
Well one can argue about that, but lets just take in mind that Science and scholars upto this date are still exploring the Quran for the tremendous knowledge stored in it.

Certainly for just a normal human being undertaking this enormous task is impossible. it requires centuries of effort.

Islamic Laws are flexible enough to cover all era. if one has doubt in it, then it really comes to the point, that "ISLAM is not universal relegion" , thus you are undermining the saying of Allah in Quran.

[quote]

Laws change from time to time according to circumstances and the Quran is a direct proof of this since it was revealed over a long period of time, rather than in one shot...issues were dealt with as they were come across.

[/quote]

Human made laws need to be reconsidered again and again due to the fact that, they are never good enough to tackle all situations.

to the point of revealing Quran to Prophet Muahmmad (SAW) over a long period of time. You really dont get it. If it would have been the aim to teach only 1 person i.e Muhammad(SAW) PBUH , then it would have been in a single shot. but to teach a human race it really does take a long period of time..

lets remind, that it took more than 1000 years for Hazrat nooh ( PBUH) fo spread the message of Allah on earth. and yet the yielding was very low.

lets just look at another aspect, a child at age of 12 is quite smart , intellegent and can learn lots of things. but it takes a long time to educate him. in some cases ppl study for more than 40 years...

so how could u just think abt learning the such tremendos deen in just single shot.. ???

[quote]

One more thing, marital rape, according to most guppies here, is wrong. The Quran doesn't address the issue directly. So are u to tell me since God made no explicit ruling on it and its not mentioned in the Hadith, that the issue should not even be addressed? And no, i'm not talking about women who dont want to have sex w/their husbands just to be mean, I'm talking about women who have pain during sex or are uncomfortable with the way their husbands emotionally treat them as oppose to sexually treat them, etc...

[/quote]

if you study the hadith deep, you will certainly find a clear answer to your point. By the way, On many ocassions Prophet Muhammad (SAW) has clearly told abt the relationship between men and women as being husband and wife, certainly this issue is also covered, but not in the way u want to read, like a tablet ready to be taken.

[quote]

Another example, the Hudood Ordinance, although fundamentally is not unIslamic, is being carried out all wrong. Women who are raped get charged with adultery. How does an Islamic state deal with the issue? Or do we go flipping through the Quran to find an ayat that deals with the subject (it doesn't exist, by the way).?
[/QUOTE]

I beleive this hadood ordinance dosnt stand anywhere meeting the requirement and impositions by Allah almighty. This hadood ordinance was formed and imposed by bunch of polititians who just wanted to win the support of perverted Mullah's to straighten up their reign.
besides how can u just think that hudood ordinance is going to be properly imposed , whereas whole rest of the judiciary and laws are man made..

it just sound to me like " a building with 1 pillar of cement, other of paper wall".... can it be called a building/ or fullfil its purpose?

just think abt it..

I strongly Disagree with the concept of Islamic democracy, Hybrid Islamic democracy..

Men are solely supposed to be obeying and imposing LAW (COMPLETELY). If we have to follow it, follow it completely , it is not a matter of Choice..

May we All be guided on the righteous path..

19

Lahori..
certainly Mullah’s are no angels..
they are corrupt, greedy , ppl who claim to obey Allahs order whereas they are not. These ppl have been Titled" munafiqeens" in Quran by Allah Almighty. And There are numerable verses to identify such munafiqeens..

but point is are we better enough , I wont be surprised if Many of the Munafiqeens “attributes” are found in me, because we have never undertood the Islam, following it is far from approach..

ver less People today are striving for reviving Islam in true consent are present. and their voice isnt that loud and visible.
All these propoganda jamats, are just using Islam for their own benifit, and certainly destroying the image of Islam also in eyes of Muslims..

lets just realize what Islam is , and what is demands from us..

20

Okay, I'm not going to sit here and write essays reiterating my points. I stand to my belief and many muslims share my belief. However, I will ask you this, Flamezz. You've already admitted that "bad" mullahs exist. What role do you think they'd play if we were to begin building a real Islamic government/society?