Can we justify our lifestyles ?

[Mirch]

Some one sent me this link via email and asked the above question.
I am dumbfounded , what can I say ? Is there some answer to this question ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/specials/1546_190408_ms/page4.shtml

Here is the news in English for those who cannot read Urdu.
Gilani visits suicide site, appeals for help for needy .

LAHORE, April 16 (APP): Prime Minister Syed Yousuf Raza Gilani on Wednesday appealed to the well-off segments of society inlcuding members of parliament, nazims and philanthropists to provide all possible financial help to the poor people in their respective areas. He was talking to journalists during his visit to the house of Bushra Bibi in Makkah Colony, the 26-year old woman (26) who along with her two minor kids - Muhammad Zubair (5) and Saima (3) - had committed suicide due to desperation through poverty. The woman had thrown her kids and herself on the railway track in front of a running train near the 7-Up level crossing on April 12.
The Prime MInister was accompanied by Punjab Chief Minister Dost Muhammad Khosa.

Gillani said, “I request the leaders and members of all political parties, MNAs, MPAs, nazims and philanthropists to provide financial support to the poor and needy in their respective areas, to avoid recurrence of such tragic incidents”.

He said the government will develop and initiate programmes aimed at eliminating poverty and unemployment from the country. To a question, he said the government will also streamline the Zakat Fund to ensure its provision to the deserving segments of the society.

While offering condolence to the family of the deceased, the Prime Minister expressed profound grief over the tragic suicide incident. He gave Rs 200,000 cash to Bushra Bibi’s heirs, besides announcing that the marriage expenses of her two younger sisters will be borne by the government.
He also promised provision of a permanent residence for the bereaved family.

The present residence of Bushra Bibi is a one-room rented premises. The widower Muhammad Ramzan is a welder by profession and earns Rs 6,000 per month.

Talking to APP, Ramzan disclosed that he and his wife always had good relations, and she had never complained about his meagre earnings, however, she did wish her kids to receive a good education, and used to teach the children at home.

“I don’t know what clicked in her mind that day, to take such a horrible step,” he added.

Bushra Bibi’s father Muhammad Arif and mother Khalida Bibi also agreed with him, and observed that maybe the thought of poverty had affected her more than they realised, and was a factor behind her suicide.

[Aliyish]

Re: Can we justify our lifestyles ?

From last few days .... Our leaders .... they are doing some pitch pitch talk in Burj ul arab for restoring judges .

And I hope you know the damage of staying in that yoke for one night .... In Pakistan ya can buy a 800 cc car for that much money .... Many poor people can get food and other basic necessities ..

I hope they all can justify it on the day of Judgement ...

[Mirch]

Re: Can we justify our lifestyles ?

@Aliyish

From last few days .... Our leaders .... they are doing some pitch pitch talk in Burj ul arab for restoring judges .

And I hope you know the damage of staying in that yoke for one night .... In Pakistan ya can buy a 800 cc car for that much money .... Many poor people can get food and other basic necessities ..

I hope they all can justify it on the day of Judgement ...

Your POV is very valid when it comes to politicians , leaders, and the ruling class.
The sender of the email is asking this question to everybody , not just the politicians, leaders and ruling class.
For example if you go to any restaurant in Pakistan you will find they have enough rice and flour to run their restaurant and people are having biryani , nihari and chicken tikka and the restaurants are full.
But in the same country millions and millions of people are standing in line for hours and hours to obtain few kilo of rice or flour.
How are those restaurant owners able to get so much rice and flour without standing in line and the common folks have to struggle to get some ?

[Aliyish]

Re: Can we justify our lifestyles ?

When I talk about politicians , leaders and ruling class . I have a simple theory working at the back which says ‘ A captain should leads by setting an example ‘.. And i dont see it happenin in our case ..

Ya cant expect Middle class or lower middle class to cut down their daily life expenses where ruling class ( most of the time its tax money ) fritter away..

Bhai don’t ya know how hard it is to run a business in Pakistan … ya should have powerful people in yr camp … mates in city authorities … And when ya have them , ya fulfil their needs and they cover ya back up ….

In a country, where common people are dieing in suicide bombings every day and Government is buying safety vehicles for its ministers and big bosses …

what else ya expect ?

Kia un ka KhooN , khooN or humara KhooN pani haai ?

[psyah]

Re: Can we justify our lifestyles ?

Peace

Using economic status as a resort to suicide is not Islamic faith. In the same instance it is not wise for the country's elite to resort to wealth appeals to pacify a problem which is rooted in faithlessness.

If you have no food the first thing to throw on the train tracks should be the TV set not your kids.

I'm sorry there is no remorse except that people have no patience these days and before anybody tries to come with a class based argument or thinks that I do not understand what they are going through please think again ...

The Christians in Pakistan have been living in sub standard conditions for years in Pakistan and they get by scouting through rubbish to make a living. We need to reprioritise what our goals in life are ... do we realise or know that those who commit suicide will continually be taking their lives in that manner until the Day of Judgement? What sort of issue in education can there be for a 5 and 3 year old?

I know people in Pakistan that have been drawn towards suicide, but it is not those people who LIVE in poverty, it is those people who live in relative luxury but lose it all of a sudden mostly due to gambling. The disease of gambling in Pakistan in my humble opinion is what is taking the people over the edge. I do not know the family of that man who earns Rs 6000 per month if there is so much apathy then please sort things out instead of getting emotional about it.

[Faisal]

Re: Can we justify our lifestyles ?

@psyah

I know people in Pakistan that have been drawn towards suicide, but it is not those people who LIVE in poverty, it is those people who live in relative luxury but lose it all of a sudden mostly due to gambling. The disease of gambling in Pakistan in my humble opinion is what is taking the people over the edge.

For some reason, I doubt that Bushra Bibi of Makkah Colony was a gambling addict. So while your blame-the-victim POV is mildly interesting, it may be more provocative than sound.

[MatineeSiren]

Re: Can we justify our lifestyles ?

@psyah

Peace

Using economic status as a resort to suicide is not Islamic faith. In the same instance it is not wise for the country's elite to resort to wealth appeals to pacify a problem which is rooted in faithlessness.

If you have no food the first thing to throw on the train tracks should be the TV set not your kids.

I'm sorry there is no remorse except that people have no patience these days and before anybody tries to come with a class based argument or thinks that I do not understand what they are going through please think again ...

The Christians in Pakistan have been living in sub standard conditions for years in Pakistan and they get by scouting through rubbish to make a living. We need to reprioritise what our goals in life are ... do we realise or know that those who commit suicide will continually be taking their lives in that manner until the Day of Judgement? What sort of issue in education can there be for a 5 and 3 year old?

I know people in Pakistan that have been drawn towards suicide, but it is not those people who LIVE in poverty, it is those people who live in relative luxury but lose it all of a sudden mostly due to gambling. The disease of gambling in Pakistan in my humble opinion is what is taking the people over the edge. I do not know the family of that man who earns Rs 6000 per month if there is so much apathy then please sort things out instead of getting emotional about it.

I'd like to see you make such sweeping statements when you and your children are starving.

When someone attempts or commits suicide, they are going against their natural instincts. The see no way out of their situation, and thus they choose to end it. That woman feared leaving her children to starve in the streets, so she took them with her. I can't say what she did was right, but luckily, I haven't been in that situation.
Though, I have been close.
Thus, please do not judge those who suffer from your pedestal. Unless you've suffered this, you really have no basis on which to judge.

[psyah]

Re: Can we justify our lifestyles ?

@Faisal

For some reason, I doubt that Bushra Bibi of Makkah Colony was a gambling addict. So while your blame-the-victim POV is mildly interesting, it may be more provocative than sound.

Peace bro

This is what I said in my previous post ...

I do not know the family of that man who earns Rs 6000 per month if there is so much apathy then please sort things out instead of getting emotional about it.

It may not be gambling but it is exemplary of two things:

1) No real understanding/belief of Aakhira
2) No real patience (or victims not effectively assuming the situation to be a means to reduce one's judgement intensity)

Poor people seldom commit suicide but those who fear poverty are more likely to do it. Those who are hungry for more than three days have options of begging and even theft so what is all this jumping in aid of? And why kill your kids? It is a fear of the threat of something that has not yet come about and because they do not want to expereince it they do (faithlessly) something about it.

[Mirch]

Re: Can we justify our lifestyles ?

@psyah

Peace

Using economic status as a resort to suicide is not Islamic faith. In the same instance it is not wise for the country's elite to resort to wealth appeals to pacify a problem which is rooted in faithlessness. .........................

We all know suicide is not Islamic faith , I am sure Bushra Bibi also knew it, but the kind of stress she had to undergo every day overtakes the loose faith we all have. Please read the story at BBC link which has the story in Urdu, it is more heart wrenching than the one release by AP.

@Faisal

For some reason, I doubt that Bushra Bibi of Makkah Colony was a gambling addict. So while your blame-the-victim POV is mildly interesting, it may be more provocative than sound.

I have read so many news, in recent years, about suicide committed by people at their wits ends due to poverty and due to stress of responsibility of feeding many mouths but having no or little means to do so.
I will not worry if Gamblers or drug addicts were committing suicide, these are people who have nothing to gamble but their own life.

[psyah]

Re: Can we justify our lifestyles ?

@MatineeSiren

I'd like to see you make such sweeping statements when you and your children are starving.

When someone attempts or commits suicide, they are going against their natural instincts. The see no way out of their situation, and thus they choose to end it. That woman feared leaving her children to starve in the streets, so she took them with her. I can't say what she did was right, but luckily, I haven't been in that situation. Though, I have been close. Thus, please do not judge those who suffer from your pedestal. Unless you've suffered this, you really have no basis on which to judge.

Peace MatineeSiren

I am only providing a means to my 'pedestal' it is a pedestal of faith ... inshaAllah if He wants me to go hungry then so be it if He wants me to be full so be it ... I pray I have patience when I need to show it and thankfulness when I need to show it.

I am not judge for anyone ... but suicide is not a resort it is an attempt to escape ... when we know we cannot. I would never knowingly take my life KNOWING that I will be doing that over and over again until the Day of Judgement. It is not my judgement of others that is clear in this matter it is my faith in Allah (SWT)

[MatineeSiren]

Re: Can we justify our lifestyles ?

@psyah

Peace MatineeSiren

I am only providing a means to my 'pedestal' it is a pedestal of faith ... inshaAllah if He wants me to go hungry then so be it if He wants me to be full so be it ... I pray I have patience when I need to show it and thankfulness when I need to show it.

I am not judge for anyone ... but suicide is not a resort it is an attempt to escape ... when we know we cannot. I would never knowingly take my life KNOWING that I will be doing that over and over again until the Day of Judgement. It is not my judgement of others that is clear in this matter it is my faith in Allah (SWT)

You say this with a clear mind, and a full belly. Again, people who attempt or commit suicide are not in a healthy or stable frame of mind. Thus, you cannot judge them objectively. They are SICK.

[psyah]

Re: Can we justify our lifestyles ?

@Mirch

We all know suicide is not Islamic faith , I am sure Bushra Bibi also knew it, but the kind of stress she had to undergo every day overtakes the loose faith we all have. Please read the story at BBC link which has the story in Urdu, it is more heart wrenching than the one release by AP.

I have read so many news, in recent years, about suicide committed by people at their wits ends due to poverty and due to stress of responsibility of feeding many mouths but having no or little means to do so. I will not worry if Gamblers or drug addicts were committing suicide, these are people who have nothing to gamble but their own life.

Peace Mirch

I'm sorry to say we let Pakistan become a Bookkeeper nation these gamblers not only ruin their own lives but harm others with all the money they have wasted. If anyone knows about suicide's punishment then why do it? Do you think my assessment is wrong? Do you think that people who are living in poverty are less likely to commit suicide than those who have the threat of poverty?

[psyah]

Re: Can we justify our lifestyles ?

@MatineeSiren

You say this with a clear mind, and a full belly. Again, people who attempt or commit suicide are not in a healthy or stable frame of mind. Thus, you cannot judge them objectively. They are SICK.

Peace MatineeSiren

That sickness began with faithlessness ...

[MatineeSiren]

Re: Can we justify our lifestyles ?

@psyah

Peace MatineeSiren

That sickness began with faithlessness ...

Ahem, mental illness is just that, an illness. Faith or no faith has nothing to do with it.

I suggest you look in the mirror. There you will see the face of arrogance.

[Faisal]

Re: Can we justify our lifestyles ?

What has gambling got to do with this whole discussion is, frankly, beyond me. The issue is poverty and suicide.

Yesterday in an interview on Geo, Zardari mentioned that 4-5 people are committing suicide every day in Pakistan due to poverty and complete hopelessness; and that the rulers of the land will have to answer for that in this and the next life.

Poverty is a real problem in Pakistan. Lack of hope is a real problem in Pakistan. Lets talk about that for a moment, and let Brother Psyah yap about gambling addicts all he wants.

[AQ]

Re: Can we justify our lifestyles ?

Mirch bhai:

If we are getting all money with the halal resources then, the money should be spent for its purposes as well to justify our lifestyle.

If we pay the due zakaat, be the most generous and honest in charity works, then, sure we can justify our lifestyle.. however, such sad stories are our collective irresponsibility - collective on the humanatarian level, on religous level and on the national level - both peoples and the leaders guilty equally....

[psyah]

Re: Can we justify our lifestyles ?

@AQ

Mirch bhai:

If we are getting all money with the halal resources then, the money should be spent for its purposes as well to justify our lifestyle.

If we pay the due zakaat, be the most generous and honest in charity works, then, sure we can justify our lifestyle.. however, such sad stories are our collective irresponsibility - collective on the humanatarian level, on religous level and on the national level - both peoples and the leaders guilty equally....

Peace AQ

This is true.

[psyah]

Re: Can we justify our lifestyles ?

@MatineeSiren

Ahem, mental illness is just that, an illness. Faith or no faith has nothing to do with it.

I suggest you look in the mirror. There you will see the face of arrogance.

Thank you sister for being judgemental towards me. Others may see arrogance but My Lord knows there is no such issue here. And if there is but even a drop then I pray He remove it from my heart. Money is being blamed as the cause of suicide I am saying no it is far more deep rooted than that ... please read below:

@Faisal

What has gambling got to do with this whole discussion is, frankly, beyond me. The issue is poverty and suicide.

Yesterday in an interview on Geo, Zardari mentioned that 4-5 people are committing suicide every day in Pakistan due to poverty and complete hopelessness; and that the rulers of the land will have to answer for that in this and the next life.

Poverty is a real problem in Pakistan. Lack of hope is a real problem in Pakistan. Lets talk about that for a moment, and let Brother Psyah yap about gambling addicts all he wants.

Peace bro Faisal

Gambling has to do with this whole issue, because it is a symptom of a larger problem in Pakistan. The vast difference in financial class is one thing but when people use that class difference to buy people heart and soul (by this I mean they make them lose all sense of ethics) then you will get the other problems ... you will see uneducated police members beating the educated, you will see gangster lining the pockets of police, you will see no security for the poor. Gamblers destroy their own lives putting themselves in huge debts, but poor people do not have any money they have no need to kill themselves due to any complex problems. Poor people have relatively simpler lives than those middle-class to working middle-class people who strive to get money by any short cut method.

Trust has disappeared from the nation. You cannot give something to someone expected a full return anymore. There will always be a khyanat that people will do or expect ... interest is considered a right and people are obsessed over competing with each other for the dunya. This competitiveness has caused the real hopelessness. The media is bad enough ... every poor home has a TV and most Pak dramas feature the rich with good cars and exquisite homes those poor people will begin to aspire to that living standard and that could cause as much of a problem.

A jazabati gesture of money giving the family who had the loss of the woman and her two children is again a means for clarifying ones own guilt. The problem should be investigated rather than sweeping statements be made ... I am not the one making them those people you listen to on TV are ... If you want to sort the problem in Pakistan then live with a different economic system and build trust into the lives of one another and sow the seeds of iman that people do not cheat, gamble, lie, compete for dunya, or try to buy the police or gangsters to support their financial interests.

Sharing money properly i.e. giving zakat is a must in Islam ... however, for Paksitan this measure will but only mask the issue it will provide a band aid to the problem. I am saying cure the problem rather than treat it. Make people happier for what they have rather than sad for what they do not. We should at the same time correctly pay our rents and bills to support this process.