i don't think it is quite possible to fully implement it as a national language in all corners of Pakistan.
I don't think there is one language that can be considered spoken by a majority on national level.
Agree.
Aisi koshish aik baray jhagray ka paish kheema ho gi.
At Mr diwana:
You are speaking from the typical fear of the supporters of Urdu, who think that supporting the true nature and culture of people will break this country, In contrast the reality is actually opposite to this.
But you didn't addressed my argument, i guess i have to repeat things here as well.
Pakistan as a country is very different than your 'basic' logical sense can understand.
Let see what you extra ordinary logical expertise has to offer :D
[quote]
You want one or more parts to be separated?
1- Urdu is a mixture of many languages ( I don't need to explain this) and can easily add local languages words. And has for the most part accepted many local words already.
2- Urdu which is called hindi in India is different than what is spoken or written in Pakistan.
3- Urdu can be written and understood still by many non-urdu speaking citizens and loved by them
[/quote]
Urdu do have a mixture of many languages and it also have been understood by many non-urdu speaking citizens.
But we don't decide about our identity based on some useful tips. You are what you are, You speak whatever native language you have. And a language that you understand can never be as sweet, true and close to yourself as your native language.
And country is meant to be like home for the nation. And a language of minority can never replace the true and rich languages that majority have.
[quote]
4- Great poets of Urdu also came from local areas such as Faraz, Iqbal and Faiz etc.
5- Urdu language IS a national language so original question is based on lack of knowledge.
If it was meant that will it ever be implemented as national language, the one will ask** why not?**
[/quote]
I already given the reason for why not because its the language of minority my friend.
[quote]
6- None of the language has ability to join people of Pakistan but Urdu can and has at least in west Pakistan.
[/quote]
Only truth can join people, When people keep close to what they are and than they can form strong binding. You don't need languages of minority to keep a country going. You should accept the reality.
And there is this baseless fear that if its not for Urdu, this country will break, why not accept the people the way they are.
[quote]
7- When question was raised on same ground west Pakistani outrightly called former East Pakistani Bengalis as traitors.
So why should we not call those who call for majority language becoming national language as traitors?
Now, I just wanted to present a counter logic since you asked for it. This does not mean I agree with the notion that anyone asks for majority language as national language to be called a traitor.
West Pakistan was wrong then and people will be wrong now to call anyone traitor.
[/quote]
nothing to say here...
[quote]
8- Urdu is understood even outside Pakistan and India and has more reasons and ability to convey Pakistani message outside with better understanding.
9- Urdu is not owned by few people in Pakistan. It enjoys love and respect from majority people of Pakistan and few extremists/nationalists just try to bring this issue for inciting people. What is funny is that these so called nationalistic minded people would rather speak broken english than speak Urdu when talk to even a fellow Pakistani.
[/quote]
Now here you are grouping nationalists and extremists in similar category, And try to make them sound similar.
Nationalists only tell you to, "Be Real" and ask a question to yourself that who you are and don't try to act like someone else. What good this does to you is that you dont just go out and imitate other nations. you have your own identity and pride, which gives you dignity as a nation, so nationalism promotes patriotism.
While on the other side people like you who try to undermine the identity, work against the pride of the people and work against the unity.
Ithink you forget one thing. Urdu is the most understood language within pakistan. People speak it in Chhitral and the way across to Badin all the way across to Gwadar and across to Khunjerab.
urdu is the language of most pakistanis now and even if urdu was not it would still be listened to by most ie via Indian films/songs.
Urdu can be understood from kabul all the way across to Dhaka.
People talk as if Urdu is a new language being added to Pakistan. These debates are far too late. Everyone in pakistan can speak some and read some basic Urdu, except a lot of the womenfolk in rural areas.
The major regional langauges are just that - they are regional languages. People are not banned from speaking them. The reason why regional languages dont have a much of a role to play is because we have been illiterate until now and we are used to using a major language ie Persian and not our own.
There should be increased literacy levels in all the languages not just the major regional ones.
It is Urdu which becomes the language of communication between most Balochis, Brahuis, pashtuns and like betwene different ethnic groups in NWFP.
I think its great that a language can be understood by most people in pakistan that is not english.
I guess i have to make it even more simpler so that you can understand it.
Here is what i wrote in earlier post, Please read it.
But i don't think Urdu should be the national language of Pakistan, since Urdu is the language of a small minority and not viable option looking at cultural variations of peoples of Pakistan.
The major regional languages(Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashto and Balochi) should be given the status of national languages, because those are the languages which truly represent the people who live in this country
Now since an argument consists of the conclusion and premises that support that conclusion. In short form my conclusion is this.
The major regional languages(Punjabi, Sindhi, Pashto and Balochi) should be given the status of national languages
Now what are the premises for this conclusion
1. Urdu is the language of a small minority and not viable option looking at cultural variations of peoples of Pakistan.
**2. *those(mentioned in conclusion) are the languages which truly represent the people who live in this country*
There is a hidden premise as well which you can get from looking at above premise.
3. The national language/languages of a country should be the language/languages of its majority, and true representative of its culture.
If you find it still difficult to get than i'll recommend some introductory stuff on logic. It would be nice if you address this argument and take the discussion forward.
At Mr diwana:
You are speaking from the typical fear of the supporters of Urdu, who think that supporting the true nature and culture of people will break this country, In contrast the reality is actually opposite to this.
But you didn't addressed my argument, i guess i have to repeat things here as well.
Let see what you extra ordinary logical expertise has to offer :D
Urdu do have a mixture of many languages and it also have been understood by many non-urdu speaking citizens.
But we don't decide about our identity based on some useful tips. You are what you are, You speak whatever native language you have. And a language that you understand can never be as sweet, true and close to yourself as your native language.
And country is meant to be like home for the nation. And a language of minority can never replace the true and rich languages that majority have.
I already given the reason for why not because its the language of minority my friend.
Only truth can join people, When people keep close to what they are and than they can form strong binding. You don't need languages of minority to keep a country going. You should accept the reality.
And there is this baseless fear that if its not for Urdu, this country will break, why not accept the people the way they are.
nothing to say here...
Now here you are grouping nationalists and extremists in similar category, And try to make them sound similar.
Nationalists only tell you to, "Be Real" and ask a question to yourself that who you are and don't try to act like someone else. What good this does to you is that you dont just go out and imitate other nations. you have your own identity and pride, which gives you dignity as a nation, so nationalism promotes patriotism.
While on the other side people like you who try to undermine the identity, work against the pride of the people and work against the unity.
OK sir.
Pakistan is made of people with many languages. It is geographically divided in to four provinces but socially, culturally (including on the basis of languages) is a mixture of a lot more.
It also has not been through a long period of stability and unfortunately has many people who are just too emotional and full of fake pride based on tribal or family lineage.
Asking for one out of these languages to be national language has been tried
and failed not only miserably but cost the country a lot. I am not saying east Pakistan was separated only because of language but it was one more reason which fueled to the fire. West Pakistan did not accept majority of Bengalis or their sentiments. Unfortunately you did not elect to comment on it. Perhaps lack of knowledge of this sad part of Pakistan history.
No one is against pride of identity.
No one is saying that someone should leave aside his/her own heritage and not be proud of. keeping urdu as national language has nothing to do with this.
Just to give you reality check:
Many of Pakistani have their names which derive from Urdu language as a mixture of farsi, arabic, turkish words. Since it has been a heritage of muslims all over Indian subcontinent.
There is a reason why Indians do not like Urdu as their language my dear friend.
Urdu is Not just a language of so called minority people.
Its the idea that somehow urdu is the language of minority which is not real.
I gave you examples and you keep insisting on it.
Whose language is English from Pakistan and why no hell and cry about it being an official language (sarkari zaban)?
Some extremists and so called nationalists just want to have fun with the lay people at the expense of more trouble. Doesn't Pakistan have enough troubles and some people want to add another huge one? Come on, be realistic.
You may not believe it or think its a misconception, but if it is tried again, then those who's language will not be accepted as national language will have more reason to hate those whose language will be accepted.
Making more than one language as national language is impractical and just non-sense.
By the way, not all are languages in Pakistan, some are dialects/boli.
Before Pakistan was created, Urdu was still considered a respected language and its nothing to do with 'minority' people who are blamed on forcing urdu over people of Pakistan.
I also gave few points above which do not need to be repeated.
I see Urdu as a lamination on your drivers license or ID card.
Keeping its shine and strength without affecting, rather protecting the material inside.
All languages and dialects can survive and have survived in presence of Urdu being National language. Keeping a strong bond among people.
There are other issues at hand and not this one my friend.
Keeping whatever Pakistan has left is one major issue.
Re: can urdu be our national language?
Some people just cant handle a simple fact that whether they like it or not , officially Urdu is the national language of Pakistan .
Its is , it will be , Insallah .
Good topic to discuss. :k:
English has been made the official language of Pakistan and Urdu is the national language.
More than 95% of Pakistani’s in Pakistan can speak/ understand Urdu but according to data it is said only 8% has Urdu as its mother tongue e.g. 44% of Pakistani’s have Punjabi as their first langauge, 14% have Pashto as their first langauge etc.
This is because of all the different provinces and the many languages that are spoken in the country e.g. Pashto, Sindhi, Punjabi, Brahui, Saraiki, Balochi, Burushaski (spoken in Hunza), Shina (spoken in Gilgit District), Khowar (spoken in Chitral) and many more..
Pakistan should not just have one national language.
India has 70+ national languages.
We should have 6 national languages: Urdu, Pashto, Sindhi, Balochi, Kashmiri, Punjabi (I count Hindko, Seraiki etc. as dialects of Punjabi).
Each province should have its own regional language as its national language.
Urdu is only the language of Urdu-Speaking people who are mostly settled in Karachi, Karachi should be made into a seperate province and Urdu should be restricted to it.
It is wrong to enforce Urdu on the masses, Urdu is the language of Delhi/Lucknow of India and the Urdu-Speaking Muhajir people who migrated from India.
I hate the typical rant that it's the language of the Muslims of the South-Asian Subcontient, only one language has any religious significance to Muslims and that's Arabic, other than that we all have our own distinct ethnic languages, South-Asia was never culturally homogeneous, a Hindu from one part is not culturally the same as a Hindu from another and a Muslim from one part is not the same as a Muslim from another.
Urdu and Hindi are dialects of the same language, the enforcement of Urdu in Pakistan has increased simialrities between the two countries, had it not been for Urdu we would only have simialrities with Indian Occupied Khalistan (East Punjab) and not the rest of India.
Pakistan should not just have one national language.
India has 70+ national languages.
We should have 6 national languages: Urdu, Pashto, Sindhi, Balochi, Kashmiri, Punjabi (I count Hindko, Seraiki etc. as dialects of Punjabi).
Each province should have its own regional language as its national language.
Urdu is only the language of Urdu-Speaking people who are mostly settled in Karachi, Karachi should be made into a seperate province and Urdu should be restricted to it.
It is wrong to enforce Urdu on the masses, Urdu is the language of Delhi/Lucknow of India and the Urdu-Speaking Muhajir people who migrated from India.
I hate the typical rant that it's the language of the Muslims of the South-Asian Subcontient, only one language has any religious significance to Muslims and that's Arabic, other than that we all have our own distinct ethnic languages, South-Asia was never culturally homogeneous, a Hindu from one part is not culturally the same as a Hindu from another and a Muslim from one part is not the same as a Muslim from another.
Urdu and Hindi are dialects of the same language, the enforcement of Urdu in Pakistan has increased simialrities between the two countries, had it not been for Urdu we would only have simialrities with Indian Occupied Khalistan (East Punjab) and not the rest of India.
Very right Nosherwan: I don't know where its written that a country can only have one national language. Language is the core of one's identity, People miss the whole point when they say that most of the people understand urdu, its not about just understanding, its about identity, Its about who you are.
well secular we are loosing our wing urdu language due to english. english must be learnt but must not be given priority on urdu language. even urdu can become international language sir.
:)
Re: can urdu be our national language?
big lie urdu is on its way from meethi to bitter
we couldnt slaughter our mother tongue for minortys language
in reallity english is pakistans national and official language. urdu as national language is just propaganda
then desiostrich sb u may be burried with englishmen ehh? offcourse english is our official language but urdu must be our official language.
bhai sb our house language such as punjabi or pushto or sindhi, balochi thez all must be and urdu also must be free of english. people today talk english in daily life mostly to show themselves educated people as if one will talk in his/her mother language then it will not be seen as educated people's language. this is ignorance of our society.