Nuclear Duplicity From Pakistan
ew countries have improved their standing in American eyes as dramatically as Pakistan has in the past two years. Long shunned by Washington for its links to terrorism, its nuclear weapons program and autocratic military rule, Pakistan became a valued ally, mainly by abandoning its support of the Taliban leadership in Afghanistan after the Sept. 11 attacks on the United States. Now Pakistan’s reputation is threatened once again. American intelligence agencies have recently confirmed that Islamabad provided indispensable help to North Korea’s secret nuclear weapons program. That program threatens 100,000 American troops in Asia along with the people of Japan and South Korea.
Pakistan secretly developed nuclear weapons in the 1980’s and 90’s, but lacked the longer-range missiles required to threaten India’s main cities and military bases with nuclear attack. North Korea had such missiles, but it needed nuclear bomb-making technology that could be easily concealed underground to prevent American satellite detection.
Pakistan provided Pyongyang with the perfect solution by sharing design plans of the uranium enrichment technology it had stolen from the West and used in its own secret nuclear program. In exchange, Pakistan got North Korean missile components, which Pyongyang also ships to Iran, Libya, Yemen, Syria and Egypt.
Neither country has shown the least hesitation about placing unconventional weapons in the hands of dangerous dictators. Pakistan claims to have ended its exchanges with North Korea, but the United States spotted a Pakistani plane picking up North Korean missile parts as recently as last summer. The Bush administration has warned Islamabad of unspecified “consequences” of this reckless traffic.
Pakistan’s actions are not those of a reliable partner. Washington must make plain to its leader, Gen. Pervez Musharraf, that continued behavior of this sort will not be tolerated.
There is no concrete evidence as of yet that Pakistan, a key ally on the war on terroism, did pass on any sort of nuclear technology to the North Koreans. Whatever is being printed out here in the U.S. media, lack credible evidence and is based on pure assumptions.
IMHO, the only reason this sort of rubbish was leaked in the first place, was to keep Pakistan in check, and keep some sort of pressure. As far as our relations are concerned with the American admnistration, we would love to improve our relations and take it to a next level, however, if the Americans refuse to support us( which is highly unlikely in near future atleast ), and decide to abandon us again, we are not going to go hungry or something of that sort, ** We Will Survive and Prosper**. We have done it in the past, and we will not hesitate to do it in the future.
[QUOTE] Originally posted by ZulfiOKC: *
There is no concrete evidence as of yet that Pakistan, **a key ally on the war on terroism, did pass on any sort of nuclear technology to the North Koreans. Whatever is being printed out here in the U.S. media, lack credible evidence and is based on pure assumptions.
IMHO, the only reason this sort of rubbish was leaked in the first place, was to keep Pakistan in check, and keep some sort of pressure. As far as our relations are concerned with the American admnistration, we would love to improve our relations and take it to a next level, however, if the Americans refuse to support us( which is highly unlikely in near future atleast ), and decide to abandon us **again, we are not going to go hungry or something of that sort, * We Will Survive and Prosper**. We have done it in the past, and we will not hesitate to do it in the future.
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These westerns keep blaming without any concrete proofs....they did that about 9/11...not concrete proof but they said muslims did it. On the other hand you have very concrete proof that 4000 jews did not go to towers that day. They don't believe you. You have been saying "A muslim cant do it" and "4000 jews stayed away from towers" for 2 years now non-stop. It has not gotten so concrete that no one can challenge it anymore.
why would America & India with such huge Muslim populations want to blame islam unnecessarily? Why would the Jews bomb the WTC in America - what do they gain by it?
The number of cases of islamic fundamentalists causing terror and havoc around the world has gotten to many and is quite eventually and consequently making the world look at the very religion with suspicion.
Look at what's happening with pakistan and mushraf - he knows he will benefit pakistan by dropping the kashmir issue but he cannot do that because they've been using the muslim help muslim fiction for so long in that country that the country may have started believeing its own lie! there is yet another reason for the suspicion.
you want concrete facts? so why didn't musharaf in person refute that he never apologized and assured Powell "400%" that he will not let pakistan trade nukes again? you saw Powell say it in public. so who do we believe? Powel's statement in public or some 3rd level nameless offcial's statement in isloo? you tell me!
Please solid concrete evidences only. No hearsays. You are assuming first that Musharraff told Powell the truth and secondly Powell told the public truly what Musharraf told him...that sounds too simple to be true. Hence no concrete evidence.
These westerns keep blaming without any concrete proofs....they did that about 9/11...not concrete proof but they said muslims did it. On the other hand you have very concrete proof that 4000 jews did not go to towers that day. They don't believe you. You have been saying "A muslim cant do it" and "4000 jews stayed away from towers" for 2 years now non-stop. It has not gotten so concrete that no one can challenge it anymore.
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ChannMahi ji, as far as I'm concerned, I have never doubted about OBL's involovement in 9-11 trageddy. I guess you are generalizing, and generalization is ignorance, therefore, before you attack me, I would recommend that you go through all my posts, and see for yourself, that I have never said that there were 4000 jews and all that crap.
I hope next time you post something will be worth reading and not merely waste of our precious time...
PEACE
I’m sure you can do the same search I can but I’ll help you this once:
"The Times said the two nations developed a “murky” quid-pro-quo relationship that continued even as the United States courted Pakistan in its anti-terrorism campaign in Afghanistan.
“He [Musharraf] has assured me on more than one occasion that there are no further contacts,” Powell told reporters at the start of a two-day visit to Mexico City.
Powell comment suggests there were contacts between North Korea and Pakistan in the past, though the secretary of state did not mention specific topics.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by balram: *
why would America & India with such huge Muslim populations want to blame islam unnecessarily? Why would the Jews bomb the WTC in America - what do they gain by it?
The number of cases of islamic fundamentalists causing terror and havoc around the world has gotten to many and is quite eventually and consequently making the world look at the very religion with suspicion.
Look at what's happening with pakistan and mushraf - he knows he will benefit pakistan by dropping the kashmir issue but he cannot do that because they've been using the muslim help muslim fiction for so long in that country that the country may have started believeing its own lie! there is yet another reason for the suspicion.
you want concrete facts? so why didn't musharaf in person refute that he never apologized and assured Powell "400%" that he will not let pakistan trade nukes again? you saw Powell say it in public. so who do we believe? Powel's statement in public or some 3rd level nameless offcial's statement in isloo? you tell me!
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Balram ji, in my opinion, your first half of the post is very interesting, and I think for that you should start a different thread. As far as our President Musharraf and his apology is concerned, yet gagin, there is no evidence that he apologised to the Americans, and again is full of assumptions. All Mr. Powel said, that he did not talk about the past, however, the Pakistanis have assured us that there will be no future dealings... Now, people can assume that his statement meant that there were past dealings with the North Koreans or something, however, IMHO, if the Pakistanis were found transfering N-technology, the U.S. would impose all sorts of sanctions on Pakistan in no time, unless you want to assume again, that the reason the Americans are not opening there mouths is because of the mere fact that they need Pakistan, and therefore they are endagering their own 100,000 U.S. troops stationed S.Korea, Japan etc., which again, knowing Americans, they would'nt do so....
MR. RUSSERT: You mentioned friends and allies, and yet there is
information that Pakistan, Russia, China, all provided North Korea
materials to help them develop a nuclear bomb.
SECRETARY POWELL: I don’t want to get into who provided what. There
are a lot of sources and methods associated with this. But I think now
in 2002, in October, all of the nations that you mentioned realize the
seriousness of any kind of proliferation activity that would involve
North Korea. I had a very specific conversation with President
Musharraf of Pakistan on Friday where he assured us – 400 percent, he
said – that Pakistan was not participating in any kind of activity
that –
MR. RUSSERT: Is he telling the truth?
SECRETARY POWELL: I am just reporting what he said, and I have a
relationship with President Musharraf that I believe he understands
the consequences of such behavior, and I take his word for it.
MR. RUSSERT: But isn’t there evidence otherwise?
SECRETARY POWELL: I’m talking about now and I’m talking about what
might be happening in the future. I don’t want to go back into the
past because it would involve some sources and methods that I’d just
as soon not discuss.
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan’s senior foreign policy and security officials expect to begin an important dialogue with the Bush administration over safety issues surrounding the country’s nuclear and missile programmes, when Stephen Hadley, the US Deputy National Security Adviser, visits Islamabad this week, senior officials said on Monday.
Though Mr Hadley is expected to spend hardly a day in Islamabad, his visit has assumed larger interest for Pakistani officials, many of whom have been stung by a spate of recent stories in US newspapers, accusing Pakistan of exchanging nuclear know-how with North Korea in return for medium-to-long-range missiles.
The issue of Pakistan’s relationship to Pyongyang has emerged at a critical time for the country’s relations with the United States, when the government of General Pervez Musharraf is continuing its support to the US war on terror even at the cost of deepening domestic hostility. Ahead of Mr Hadley’s visit, senior Pakistani officials said, the opportunity may have arrived for accusations against Pakistan to be tackled at senior level with the Bush administration.
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*Originally posted by balram: *
...you want concrete facts? so why didn't musharaf in person refute that he never apologized and assured Powell "400%" that he will not let pakistan trade nukes again? you saw Powell say it in public. so who do we believe? Powel's statement in public or some 3rd level nameless offcial's statement in isloo? you tell me! ...
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tsk, tsk tsk :) I see the Indians are still pi$$ed off that Pakistan has not been labeled a 'terrorist nation', and continues to be the frontline state :)
Good Ol' whining Indians, they will now have to go back and start planning more hijackings or shootings in shopping malls to try and get international sympathy and keep bad bad Pakistanis from the limelight :)
If only the Indians on this board spent some energy on trying to get the 53 million tons of surplus wheat to the 350 million Indians starving and dying of hunger.
Balramram, Pakistan has survived for more than 50 years. Get over it and enjoy some 'Desai Cola' :)
2b, you’re a delight. do you know what ‘frontline state in the war against terrorism means’? OK start writing:
America is in the frontline right? right across from them is another country - pakistan - yes, also in the front line. guess who is America shooting at? …tic tic tic…you gotit!
now that’s symbolic. in reality, the shooting is represented by monthly visits to musharaf, monthly chastening, fbi (not even cia…I’m sure you know the diff) offices in pakistan! not too long before we’ve to add a 51st star…except I don’t think texans like counting past 50. too bad - you gonna be where you are - right in the cross-hairs, right in the ‘frontline’ for a while!
Ah, aint that cute Balramram, frontline state is not the one which has based its official foreign policy on constant whining since 9/11.
Talk about being a 51st state, does that mean all your whining is wasted. Like I said, concentrate your energies on trying to get the 53 million tons of surplus wheat to the 350 million starving indians.
In the meantime, enjoy a cool glass of ‘Desai Cola’
Had these nuclear secrets been stolen by North Koreans, then it would have been a “safety issue” or safeguarding our nuclear assets. The way the story is being reported (without much challange) it seems a willing and carefully negotiated exchange.
Unless Pakistan agrees to hand over her nuclear and missile arsenal to good ol’ US of A, no amount of “safety” will stop such exchanges agreed to at the highest level.
Pakistan wanted the missile technology and didn’t had any money to buy it. Guess, what will they barter with?
Too bad, US doesn’t like it and calls it “nuclear non-prolifiration”. Last I checked Pakistan was not a signatory of NPT (Non-Proliferation Treaty of Nuclear Weapons)… ref (Click here) so, although it is a heart-ache and a sore negotiating point with Uncle Sam, and yes, Uncle Sam will get angry and all huffy puffy and will act as the usual bully, but tell me again what is the crime being committed here?
2b, you're what we call a spoiler. I just realized that as i start showing you the tough place you are in and the empty bravado you resort to for reasoning, my words could be hurting sentiments of more genuine people. so, heck with your negativity. be gone.
Had these nuclear secrets been stolen by North Koreans, then it would have been a “safety issue” or safeguarding our nuclear assets. The way the story is being reported (without much challange) it seems a willing and carefully negotiated exchange.
]the point though is that pakistan did the trade with another terror state - whether it was a negotiated contract or a repeat of netherlands is immaterial
Unless Pakistan agrees to hand over her nuclear and missile arsenal to good ol’ US of A, no amount of “safety” will stop such exchanges agreed to at the highest level.
oh, there are other options. the ideal one would be for a real democracy in pakistan that can withstand and counter extremism
Pakistan wanted the missile technology and didn’t had any money to buy it. Guess, what will they barter with?
that’s the whole point - a responsible country would not have done that!
Balramram, frontline state is not the one which has based its official foreign policy on constant whining since 9/11.