It is really heartening to see how China has stood by the side of Pakistan throughout these years. The help was always there in the form of moral, financial, and military support. Mutual friendship of the two countries from 1948 until now is worth studying in more detail than our typical Pakistani papers are willing to do. So I thought this forum being more accessible, and “enlightened” should look into an important aspect of Pakistan’s neighbor and a friend.
The question is: How much we the Pakistanis have actually learned from the Chinese? This question is important because sooner or later we have to move away from being utterly dependent on China and become more like a partner in the world.
Chinese can teach us a thing or two in international business.
For good trade relations ignore the thorny issues.
Never involve personal emotions while dealing with US.
Hong Kong and Taiwan are truly big issues for China just like Kashmir is for Pakistan. Chinese let UK complete the term of Hong Kong “lease”. What have we learned from this?
Chinese embassy in Belgrade was attacked by US Air Force. The result was few rocks thrown on the US embassy in Beijing and nothing more. On the other hand, we burned US embassy to the ground when some Arrabobs attacked kaaba. What did we learn from Chinese from this?
Chinese airspace was violated by US air force plane that resulted in destruction of Chinese plane. American crew was “detained” but never ill treated. We the Pakistanis don’t even allow the “diplomatic staff” of US to have dinner in peace. What did we learn from Chinese from this?
US wants Chinese cooperation in creating good business situation. Chinese are imposing tariffs on their own products to help out US businesses. What did we learn from Chinese on this?
I can go on with other examples. The bottom line is that we must learn from Chinese to be good world-citizens and play an active role in bringing peace and prosperity to this “global village”.
Today it is Chinese, yesterday it was U.S, the day before it was God knows what. Come on AntiOBL make up your mind you have 188 countries left to pick a role model for Pakistan. Waisay Yaar we are not bandars that we need to follow some country. I think we still have intellectuals that can come up with a governing structure that satisfies everyone.
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*Originally posted by Verizon: *
Today it is Chinese, yesterday it was U.S, the day before it was God knows what. Come on AntiOBL make up your mind you have 188 countries left to pick a role model for Pakistan. Waisay Yaar we are not bandars that we need to follow some country. I think we still have intellectuals that can come up with a governing structure that satisfies everyone.
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I don't see why it is bad to look towards others to improve your country. I do thin k that the Pakistani leadership needs to mature in the realm of International Relations. Less of the knee jerk response, blind alliances, and emotional alliances, the better off we will be.
Pakistan has to come force. We must make sure that our interests are placed over others. We enjoy great relations with the birthplace of Islam, must we do the same with every other Muslim country? It should be a two way street..not Pakistan sticking it's neck out only to be sold out by it's "Muslim" brothers in Libya and Iran regarding the nukes, when the Kafir North Koreans completely denied any links. Time for Pakistan to shine in the world with smart diplomacy.
Paki people want to look up to China as the role model. The same China that has driven Tibetans out of their homeland....and has throttled freedom there much in the same way as Pakiland accuses India of doing in Kashmir.
No one is saying it’s bad RF. I am only pointing out the fact that AntiOBL seems to be impressed by all other countries except the one that makes him a Pakistani.
Regarding “Pakistan has to come force”. Pakistan needs to get its head out of Kashmir’s behind and other military related expenditures and start focusing on economy and other civil institutions. China is a force to be reckoned with and is giving worries to U.S. It has bypassed Japan, Mexico, Canada combined in trading with U.S.
The impediment to Pakistans progress is Kashmiri cause. This worthless, yes worthless let me bold and underline it worthless Cause, causes Pakistan to spend incredible amounts of money on military. I think somewhere along 33 to 40 % of Pakistan’s budget is allocated to Armed forces. You take that 40 % and apply it towards education (do you know that pakistans public school system is almost non-existant) or small industry, or in large public works projects (like roosevelt did), or fixing its political system or educating masses that its oK for people to have different religions, don’t you find apalling that people are discriminated becasue of their faith.
As far as Libya and Iran are concerned, RF Libya helped Pakistan initially in acquiring and funding the development of “Islamic Bomb”. Once Pakistan acquired it they shooooed away Libya, so libya blew the whistle. After investigations they found that Iran was being helped by Pakistan. Iranians are not really fond of Pakistanis (over sectarian killings, support of Taliban, etc).
I have no doubt in my mind that Pakistan can become a major player and a respected nation, But Pakistan needs to distance itself from religion based governance models, and other stupid muslim causes that have ‘0’ impact on average Pakistani. I mean Palestine “Humaray Falestini Bhai” and the important place they get on almost every friday sermon is ridiculous.
Verizon’s A-Z list
a:Get religion out of government.
b:Change Islamic Republic of Pakistan to State of Pakistan.
c:Unconditional removal of armed forces from Kashmir.
d:Make LOC the permanent border.
e:Invest in education.
f:Invest in public works.
g:Build nuclear reactors for energy.
i:Explore alternatives for water (desalination??).
j:Build Steel Industry (One of the GDP indicators)PSM is corrupt.
k:Invest in FATA and corral the Khans into submission.
l:Attract foreign investment.
m:Streamline political structures.
n:Reduce foreign debt.
o:Work on eliminating poverty.
p:Standardize on living standards (heat, water , electricity, plumbing).
q:Over hauling and streamlining Tax Revenue system.
s:Investing in GMO (genetically modified Organisms, artificial crops).
t:Re-invest in Public transporation system (GTS).
u:Create regional partnerships for trading.
v:Strengthening Police force.
w:Increase federal reserves in SBP.
x:Re-build Merchant Marine industry.
y:Overhaul Judicial systems
z:Bring feudal lords in Sindh and Punjab to compliance.
I can go on with more points but these just came to mind.
Here is a report that was published last night by IMF for Pakistan.
I have Many Objections to the points laid out A-Z by Verizon:
A: What If the religion clearly states ur govt should run on its principals?
b: Islamic republic was the very basic this nation was formed, do you wish to alter history?
c: India cant remove its military as, it still would have the freedom fighters to fight against even if the pakistani's do pull out
d: Basic fact is, muslim majority areas cant live with indian rule, which, is very treachorous due to past events
e: no objection
f: no objection
g: already being done.
h: .... u missed out H :P.. learn your alphabets :P
i: already being done
j: its not really as easy as it sounds. Why not improve the one already there and not let it go waste !
k: Indeed! ... but ..again its not that easy just to make the khans submit, dignity is their most prestigious element
l: You have to stablelize ur regional situation first for that
m: no objection... just that from what i know about our history..that is very impossible if the litracy rate is not dealt with
n: not an easy thing to do, yet the govt has been working on it
o: no objection, but people in our country are lazy...many people rather
p: no objection,
q: Tax the rich more and make sure it goes to the poor's benifit
r: ...missed out R aswell :P ..
s: Did you know those fruits have no taste? they do help , but there also a reason of obesity as they make u gain weight more than the energy they provide you.
t: currently that is being done to quite an extent.
u: aah the irony.. pakistanis arent really good partners :S..
v: no objection. Size shouldnt really increase, authority and training should.
w: takes effort by the whole nation... no objection
x: We already have a big industry, we need to finetune in some bit.
y: what about all the crimes which take place during the overhaul. I suggest more of a open court with both public and govt monitering proceedings
z: Make them realize there citizens of the state, NOTHING more..
aaXz: Those are IMO constructive ideas whether people like 'em or not.
You don't have many objections, you have few 2 or 3, the rest are updates, excuses and justifications. Thanks for pointing out my two omissions (h,r). If Pakistan has already implemented some of the ideas then Shabash to them.
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A: What If the religion clearly states ur govt should run on its principals?
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Religion can state whatever it wants, the government and religion are two separate things. People in the "Ideal State of Pakistan (ISP)" can practice their religion freely. If people want to follow some religion to the teeth, they can do so in a communal (similar to a automomous jewish settlement and or a modern day version of a self run ghetto). The government/s should run on the man made laws not Scriptures. ISP will not adhere to any religion. Constitution should make that clear that no religion can impose its law on the judicial system of ISP, thus eliminating the challange.
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b: Islamic republic was the very basic this nation was formed, do you wish to alter history?
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Yes I am aware that the ideology of pakistan is based on Islam and, for the muslims from the sub-continent to practice Islam in a separate state. No I don't think I am altering history. More along the lines of eliminating old archaic mundane and detrimental ideology for a better one. Better than what any religion can provide.
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d: Basic fact is, muslim majority areas cant live with indian rule, which, is very treachorous due to past events
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It's not a basic fact it is an assumption based on propaganda. Even if it is treachorous it will heal over time for the greater good of two nations.
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s: Did you know those fruits have no taste? they do help , but there also a reason of obesity as they make u gain weight more than the energy they provide you.
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Do you know that oily diets are the cause for killer heart attacks and high cholesterol? So I'd rather have obese people than dead people. OK no GMO for fruits you can grow them GMO free. Can we have the soybeans, flour and corn?
Note i said religious principals. I in no way said that mullahs shud rule this country. If you look at these principals u will ur self notice they are the basis of what you yourself believe is a well structured country. There more like guidlines. And with a huge population personal about their religion, it cud be taken into benifit, just with the proper education.
Words can make a big difference. By Keeping it STATE of pakistan, ur keeping a hole wide open. It, in matters of parlimentary discussion will confuse the country. With the words ISLAMIC and REPUBLIC being there, it reminds ppl the two main ways the country is supposed to be run, no questions asked. Isnt that why we ask for democracy? if there was just STATE, martial law might have been justified.
The muslims of Gujrat have not 'healed over time'. what makes you think a more densely muslim populated area like kashmir would?
Your missing the point. Oily foods has no concern with genetically modifying crops, thats just depends on how much oil you put in the food. And if your talking about the shortages faced by the country of flour, than the solution is better agriculturat methods and fertilization, not modification. We havent reached the stage where a patch of land has produced its maximum in quantity that we move of to increasing its size.
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*Originally posted by Verizon: *
....
Verizon's A-Z list
a:Get religion out of government.
b:Change Islamic Republic of Pakistan to State of Pakistan.
[/QUOTE]
Good list. My issue is with priorities (and that's OK as we all have our biases). Q: the tax reform should be moved to #1 spot.
Patwari system must go. In the age of GPS navigation, our land and revenue records must be on computers and not a piece of "latha" (cotton cloth).
Large agri farms should be converted to corporations (public or private) for the tax purposes.
Every one in rural or urban area must file a 1 page form (like the one I saw in US), simply declaring income from previous year.
Reduce the sales and excise tax on essentials like petrol, sui-gas etc.
Allow businesses to possess unlimited capital where they have to pay tax on the specific range between an upper and lower limit of income. This will allow black money to become part of the economy and help the country grow. We have 4 times the regular economy that has gone underground due to 100 year old taxation system. You guys can well imagine the yearly budget of Pakistan to go from $13 billion to $65 billion in very short time (sholay this is $13 + $52). This will allow us to spend $10 billion on education per year and $15 billion on our brave army and still leave $40 billion to be spent on infrastructure development and other expenses.
Strong economy with strong defense and 150 million educated population will make Pakistan the best kid on the block.
2 should be patent rights enforcement. This will allow Pakistani inventors to keep the fruits of their hard work and spur innovation in the country.
The rest of your A-Z list can be ordered the way you like.
[QUOTE] Originally posted by antiobl: *
Hong Kong and Taiwan are truly big issues for China just like Kashmir is for Pakistan. **Chinese let UK complete the term of Hong Kong "lease". What have we learned from this?*
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Abay, Kashmir is not on lease to anyone. It belongs to India.
How can can you compare the Hong Kong issue with Kashmir?
Things i as a Pakistani have learned from the Chinese:
Tao Buddhisim
Wu Shu
Chinese food Cantonese Style
Business Contacts
Conversation in Mandarin and Cantonese
and their amazing history and culture!
