Hi every one,
I have one question of Ahmadis. What prove do you have that your prophet is the last prophet sent by Allah to us. If he is the one who he say he is then how did he die?
mbmagsi
Please post your quries in another thread and I will try to answer them accordingly.
From what I understand it correctly, you are asking two questions:
1) Is Mirza Sahib (as) the last prophet according to Ahmadi Muslims Belief?
2) How did the Promised Missiah die?
So, that should be two different threads!
[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
***mbmagsi*
Please post your quries in another thread and I will try to answer them accordingly.
From what I understand it correctly, you are asking two questions:
1) Is Mirza Sahib (as) the last prophet according to Ahmadi Muslims Belief?
2) How did the Promised Missiah die?
So, that should be two different threads!**
[/quote]
All I am trying to do is to understand what is the real problem?
ahmadjee...<>
Like your Mirza, you also stretch your imagination to its wildest. The translation in the above verse is as follows, not solely by translator #6, but all of them. It goes:
"Allâh has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearings, (i.e. they are closed from accepting Allâh's Guidance), and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be a great torment." (2:7)
One does not have to possess any intelligence to see that the 'seal' here is meant in the sense that Allah has closed their heart. Welded Tightly, concluded, made final, shut, locked, corked. It is like I say, that we sealed our belief that Mirzais are kaafirs.
But it has to be Mirza or his defiant followers who translate Khatam as a notary public stamp, whosoever has it becomes a Prophet. I cant help but laugh. You are ruining your own argument.
<
The next thing you will tell me is that Eisa, pbuh is buried in Kashmir. It is your Mirza who cant make up his mind, Is he mehdi, Eisa, Mohammad, or even better than him. That is what he claimed in one of his book.
<>
Iqbal once said:
teri kam ilmi nay rakh lee hai bay ilmou ki laaj
aalam faazal baich rahay hain apna deen Imaan
<
I can see that you are drooling!
<
It is not how Mirza kept changing his stand. But the use of word 'khatam' in his above qoute. Does it mean 'last' or 'End' here or does it mean 'stamp'?? simple and as regards to his prophethood. You may not believe this but I was in New York the other month. And at one of the gathering, the discussion went to religion and then Ahmadis and mainstream Islam. One of the person therein was Ahmadi, and he started euligising Mirza Gholam Ahmad and started frothing in the manner as you are. The other person removed his shoe and started hitting the Mirzai on the head and said, 'abay O bahn*****, we find hard time believing our true prophet, and here you are trying to convince us about a liar.'
I dont mean any offense to you. But you get the message.
Re the hadith, I can also tell you the other hadith wherein Prophet Mohammad, pbuh said that the linage of prophethood is like a building and I m the last brick in that building. He did not say that Mirza is to fill that gap.
And re the status of prohets! I can prove to you from qura~n that the status of all Prophet is not equal. Indeed there are some who are considered more revered and superior than other. Granted that they all are prophets, but how can Jesus and Mohammad be equal, as there is so little known about the earliar. His mission remained uncomplete. He never married, so the aspect of his life as husband or father is not known.
I can go on and on, but that is really another topic.
[quote]
Originally posted by zawiyaefikr:
**ahmadjee...<>
Like your Mirza, you also stretch your imagination to its wildest. The translation in the above verse is as follows, not solely by translator #6, but all of them. It goes:
"Allâh has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearings, (i.e. they are closed from accepting Allâh's Guidance), and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be a great torment." (2:7)
One does not have to possess any intelligence to see that the 'seal' here is meant in the sense that Allah has closed their heart. Welded Tightly, concluded, made final, shut, locked, corked. It is like I say, that we sealed our belief that Mirzais are kaafirs.
But it has to be Mirza or his defiant followers who translate Khatam as a notary public stamp, whosoever has it becomes a Prophet. I cant help but laugh. You are ruining your own argument.
<
The next thing you will tell me is that Eisa, pbuh is buried in Kashmir. It is your Mirza who cant make up his mind, Is he mehdi, Eisa, Mohammad, or even better than him. That is what he claimed in one of his book.
<>
Iqbal once said:
teri kam ilmi nay rakh lee hai bay ilmou ki laaj
aalam faazal baich rahay hain apna deen Imaan
<
I can see that you are drooling!
<
It is not how Mirza kept changing his stand. But the use of word 'khatam' in his above qoute. Does it mean 'last' or 'End' here or does it mean 'stamp'?? simple and as regards to his prophethood. You may not believe this but I was in New York the other month. And at one of the gathering, the discussion went to religion and then Ahmadis and mainstream Islam. One of the person therein was Ahmadi, and he started euligising Mirza Gholam Ahmad and started frothing in the manner as you are. The other person removed his shoe and started hitting the Mirzai on the head and said, 'abay O bahn*****, we find hard time believing our true prophet, and here you are trying to convince us about a liar.'
I dont mean any offense to you. But you get the message.
Re the hadith, I can also tell you the other hadith wherein Prophet Mohammad, pbuh said that the linage of prophethood is like a building and I m the last brick in that building. He did not say that Mirza is to fill that gap.
And re the status of prohets! I can prove to you from qura~n that the status of all Prophet is not equal. Indeed there are some who are considered more revered and superior than other. Granted that they all are prophets, but how can Jesus and Mohammad be equal, as there is so little known about the earliar. His mission remained uncomplete. He never married, so the aspect of his life as husband or father is not known.
I can go on and on, but that is really another topic.
**
[/quote]
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by NYAhmadi:
Ibrahim Paray! Kamusta? I have spent plenty of time in the Philippines myself working at the ADB, and all I can tell you is that your accusations (that?s what I call it) are totally baseless and since you have no clue about what exactly was doctored (as you put it)
Ibrahim says; Hmm..so you spent plenty of time in the Philippines, as such, what I have with me and convey, becomes false?? Just pathetic!!! , al least If you claimed I have read it and it says no such thing one would have room to argue BUT here you are, NOT KNOWING what I have with me, you try to claim I am mistaken?.needless to say that it will make little sense arguing with foolish notions like yours ( SINCE YOU HAVE ALREADY CONCLUDED WHAT IT IS BY YOURSELF ON YOUR OWN)
NYAhmadi: I don?t think that we will take you seriously.
Ibrahim says; LOL! You mean I would want to consider you worthy of any merit since you are utterly irrational in your assertions. Because an educated person ( having wisdom) would at least have tried to find out more by obtaining a copy to verify it for themselves. On the other hand you may be literate but lacking wisdom and only wanting to argue out of desire, since you have been misled by the shaitan into false belief.
BTW , I consider you a Christian or hindu and Not an ahmedi as you want us to believe ( due to my experience n the net)
NYAhmadi:If any particular meaning or alternation indeed occurred, why don?t you tell everyone what it is?
Ibrahim says : You must be very naïve, the very fact that you want us to believe you are an ahmedi and the fact that ahmedi have their own translations of the Qur?an is sufficient that they have their own interpretations to its contents. Are you telling us that ahmedis have NO difference in interpreting what the Arabs convey or what Islam actually teaches???
As for what is being misrepresented in the tagalog version, I did not do that research since I am basically Indian and NOT a Filipino, ( which is why I had to pay others to do that research for me)
If you want a copy of the togalog version for you to verify it for yourself, feel free to provide your address and payment ready, for its copying and shipment to you and I will have it sent to you on my return to the Philippines ( currently still outstation) . Cannot buy another copy for you, since it disappeared from the shelves some 6 years ago after we brought the matter to the public awareness in my current hometown.
PS: Still outstation.
**
[quote]
"Allâh has set a seal on their hearts and on their hearings, (i.e. they are closed from accepting Allâh's Guidance), and on their eyes there is a covering. Theirs will be a great torment." (2:7)
One does not have to possess any intelligence to see that the 'seal' here is meant in the sense that Allah has closed their heart. Welded Tightly, concluded, made final, shut, locked, corked. It is like I say, that we sealed our belief that Mirzais are kaafirs. **
[/quote]
:) If you look up in the thread, you will see that you translated the word Khatam as 'last' not as a 'seal' Do you take back your words and say that should be translated as ‘Seal’?
Secondly, do you now consider or think that one word may have different meaning at different places or do you still believe that one word can have one and only meaning?! Please do answer.
Seal is not just of one kind, which closes, shuts, corks, or locks something. There is another seal, which is on a paper that stands for attestation. Which is the guarantee that the letter, paper, memo etc is original and is to be considered valid. Do you know of such a Seal?
Let me also point out to you that 'stamp' does not mean only the one, which you put on your letter to be mailed. But is also a word used for 'Mohar'. And it is not used to close things but to 'Attest'!
**
[quote]
<
The next thing you will tell me is that Eisa, pbuh is buried in Kashmir. It is your Mirza who cant make up his mind, Is he mehdi, Eisa, Mohammad, or even better than him. That is what he claimed in one of his book.**
[/quote]
You are wrong. The next thing I was going to point out to you was that Hazrat Isa (as) is a prophet too! What would you consider him when (or if) he comes down? A prophet? But why and how? Cos from your interpretation Prophethood has been sealed, closed, corcked, finished?
**
[quote]
You may not believe this but I was in New York the other month. And at one of the gathering, the discussion went to religion and then Ahmadis and mainstream Islam. One of the person therein was Ahmadi, and he started euligising Mirza Gholam Ahmad and started frothing in the manner as you are. The other person removed his shoe and started hitting the Mirzai on the head and said, 'abay O bahn*****, we find hard time believing our true prophet, and here you are trying to convince us about a liar.'
I dont mean any offense to you. But you get the message.
**
[/quote]
What message?
The message that the Main stream Muslims do now know how to discuss and would call curses & foul language and consider it to be a Muslim behaviour?
And then you consider there is no need for a Messiah for the Muslims?
Ibrahim, you must be spending more time in Mubini than on theological research. Ahmadis have missionaries all over the world, and have translated Quran in dozens of languages, and no one has ever challenged that they have “doctored or altered” (as you claim) the Quran. What you are saying is a very serious accusation, you should think before uttering nonsense. You come across as someone who has absolutely zilch idea about things. Keep it up. And if you don’t have any proof of what was “doctored”, no need to reply more to this thread. We have translation services, and if you wish to put the image of the pages(s) where you believe that Quran was altered, put them in the Image Gallery.
Do me one more favor, stop writing in Novalous Cardevours Mode (Ibrahim Says “Bakla says”, Ahmadi Says, God Says,) just say whatever the hell you have to say, but say it clearly.
zawiyaefikr,
As I suggested before, please carry on your discussion hereFinality of Prophet hood as your questions are related to it.
And please do read the thread before, as that will save me re-writting a lot of it!
- [QUOTE] Originally posted by NYAhmadi: Ahmadis have missionaries all over the world, and have translated Quran in dozens of languages, and no one has ever challenged that they have ?doctored or altered? (as you claim) the Quran. *
Ibrahim says: More rants and ramblings from our Ahmadiya expert or should we consider you their spokesperson?
I made it clear to you. I am willing to copy and send you a copy of the tagalog version in my possession? Do you lack the funds or you just like to argue/rant/rave/ramble in public forums?
If the ahmdia are making claims that are not in line with Islam ( every ahmadia should know, why they are not considered Muslims), you don?t expect them to set up missionary movements or translate Qur?an in poor/under developed communities to propagate Islam do you?? You must be awfully silly, if you did!
Their intention is to adulterate Islam with their foolish notions and they seem to be financed well, one is led to believe their finances must be coming from the opposition , since it is they who would benefit by such a scheme.
- NYAhmadi: What you are saying is a very serious accusation, you should think before uttering nonsense. You come across as someone who has absolutely zilch idea about things. Keep it up. *
Ibrahim says; why don?t you put your money where you mouth is and find out, instead of talking nonsense?
- NYAhmadi: And if you don?t have any proof of what was ?doctored?, no need to reply more to this thread. We have translation services, and if you wish to put the image of the pages(s) where you believe that Quran was altered, put them in the Image Gallery. *
Ibrahim says; Oh! You mean you will now try and translate it as such, so that you will be able to proof it is not mistranslated ? you mean you will now try to teach us tagalog , I suppose?
Naaw! You problem is more to do with what is in your heart and Allah (swt) exposed it form you own foul mouth.
** NYAhmadi wrote in another thread:-
1) and being the macho rebel I thought I was, I wrote the words ?Suni Kafir HaiN? on one of the walls in the neighborhood.
2) I have never received such beating in my life since. I was knocked out unconscious, and my father decided, that that was enough punishment. But my Mom was adamant for punishment to continue until I realized that what I did was horrible and it had absolutely no justification.
3) They were upset that they were raising such a monster. **
Ibrahim says; I fully agree with them, since you have repeatedly shown how immoral you conduct can be , by the way you respond in this forum.
Frankly speaking you have yet to mature and should not be considered an adult worthy of respect.
Ibrahim,
Can you please use the following to quote
quote ]
/ quote ]
Its really not that hard and it makes the post much more readable! Wouldn't you agree?
Sorry to point it out but I have a hard time following your posts.
ahmadjee.....
I am not interested in carrying on discussion with you re your beliefs. If Qura~n, cannot satisfy you, ahadeeth have failed to bring you to right path, scholars of Islam could not convince you and your elders, what am I.
I know you want to go on discussing and discussing as it gives you an avenue to dissiminate your creed. But I do not want to be a part of it.
To you your deen... and to my deen.