The girl in question wants to marry a chinese born in US and he is a doctor, just graduated from a very prestigious University. He has gotten excellent residency. They met at work. The problem ? He is a professed atheist, and doesn't make bones about it. At gatherings he is tactful but makes little qualms about making fun of religion, all religions. She is the only daughter, and the parents, originally from Karachi, are besides themselves. He has offered to go to a mosque and say anything they want but he will not change either his name nor write anything down, and he considers it hypocritical to try to tone down his comments. The funny thing is that other than this she is very conservative and wears the hijab and all, and then suddenly she springs this surprise. So marrying this Kafir is OK? And if she goes ahead with this, what should the parents do? The mother is crying all the time.
The allowance in the Qur'anic verse 5:5 to marry the People of the Book is given only to men.
For my own knowledge, can someone post this ayah up...i dont have access to my translation. Also, please post up the name of the translator, thanks!
Also, it'll be helpful and convenient to others while reading this post.
005.005
YUSUFALI: This day are (all) things good and pure made lawful unto you. The food of the People of the Book is lawful unto you and yours is lawful unto them. (Lawful unto you in marriage) are (not only) chaste women who are believers, but chaste women among the People of the Book, revealed before your time,- when ye give them their due dowers, and desire chastity, not lewdness, nor secret intrigues if any one rejects faith, fruitless is his work, and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (all spiritual good).
PICKTHAL: This day are (all) good things made lawful for you. The food of those who have received the Scripture is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them. And so are the virtuous women of the believers and the virtuous women of those who received the Scripture before you (lawful for you) when ye give them their marriage portions and live with them in honour, not in fornication, nor taking them as secret concubines. Whoso denieth the faith, his work is vain and he will be among the losers in the Hereafter.
SHAKIR: This day (all) the good things are allowed to you; and the food of those who have been given the Book is lawful for you and your food is lawful for them; and the chaste from among the believing women and the chaste from among those who have been given the Book before you (are lawful for you); when you have given them their dowries, taking (them) in marriage, not fornicating nor taking them for paramours in secret; and whoever denies faith, his work indeed is of no account, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.
Also read the following:
060.010
YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! When there come to you believing women refugees, examine (and test) them: Allah knows best as to their Faith: if ye ascertain that they are Believers, then send them not back to the Unbelievers. They are not lawful (wives) for the Unbelievers, nor are the (Unbelievers) lawful (husbands) for them. But pay the Unbelievers what they have spent (on their dower), and there will be no blame on you if ye marry them on payment of their dower to them. But hold not to the guardianship of unbelieving women: ask for what ye have spent on their dowers, and let the (Unbelievers) ask for what they have spent (on the dowers of women who come over to you). Such is the command of Allah: He judges (with justice) between you. And Allah is Full of Knowledge and Wisdom.
PICKTHAL: O ye who believe! When believing women come unto you as fugitives, examine them. Allah is Best Aware of their faith. Then, if ye know them for true believers, send them not back unto the disbelievers. They are not lawful for them (the disbelievers), nor are they (the disbelievers) lawful for them. And give them (the disbelievers) that which they have spent (upon them). And it is no sin for you to marry such women when ye have given them their dues. And hold not to the ties of disbelieving women; and ask for (the return of) that which ye have spent; and let them (the disbelievers) ask for that which they have spent. That is the judgment of Allah. He judgeth between you. Allah is Knower, Wise.
SHAKIR: O you who believe! when believing women come to you flying, then examine them; Allah knows best their faith; then if you find them to be believing women, do not send them back to the unbelievers, neither are these (women) lawful for them, nor are those (men) lawful for them, and give them what they have spent; and no blame attaches to you in marrying them when you give them their dowries; and hold not to the ties of marriage of unbelieving women, and ask for what you have spent, and kt them ask for what they have spent. That is Allah's judgment; He judges between you, and Allah is Knowing, Wise.
Don't worry about the English translations as they differ. Remember, translation does not equate to Version!!!
The Arabic is all the same!!!
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
**Interesting approach and I'm sure you ask of evidence from within the Qur'an...*
[/quote]
I'm sure i don't.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
**or else everyone who wishes to have something 'revoked' or 'superceded' in the Qur'an would bring a source, make up tall tales about it's origin and be able to influence people to override the Qur'an.*
[/quote]
I'd hazard a wild guess and say that even those who insist on sticking only to the Qur'an are guilty of this as well.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
**So wouldn't you apply this kind of stringent following to *ALL injuncitons and directives in the Qur'an? **
[/QUOTE]
I can assure you that i'm very stringent about how Qur'anic injunctions are interpreted. As you know, many verses of the Qur'an explain other verses but also it was part of the Prophet's (s) role and responsibility to explain the Qur'an as well. He wasn't just a delivery man.
Iqbal
p.s. any answers for the "extra-Qur'anic" thread?
In regard to ayah 5:5
Question: in another thread I've argued that the Quran tells men to "marry women of your choice", and that this would also apply to women and this is understood, because a lot of things are directed to men only and not women, but nonetheless they do pertain to women also.
Since there is no mention in the verse of a direct PROHIBITION of the same rule being applied to women, then would this nullify my previous argument on a woman's choice being excercized in picking her husband?
I know there are hadith to support women in being able to choose their husbands, and khadija is direct support of it, but then is there a hadith that says women cannot marry non-muslim men of the People of the Book?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by OldLahori: *
The girl in question wants to marry a chinese born in US and he is a doctor, just graduated from a very prestigious University. He has gotten excellent residency. They met at work. The problem ? He is a professed atheist, and doesn't make bones about it. At gatherings he is tactful but makes little qualms about making fun of religion, all religions. She is the only daughter, and the parents, originally from Karachi, are besides themselves. He has offered to go to a mosque and say anything they want but he will not change either his name nor write anything down, and he considers it hypocritical to try to tone down his comments. The funny thing is that other than this she is very conservative and wears the hijab and all, and then suddenly she springs this surprise. So marrying this Kafir is OK? And if she goes ahead with this, what should the parents do? The mother is crying all the time.
[/QUOTE]
in this case the nikah would not be valid. and the parent are right in opposing the marriage.
a Muslim girl has every right to chose her own Muslim husband.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by OldLahori: *
The girl in question wants to marry a chinese born in US. He is a professed atheist, and doesn't make bones about it. At gatherings he is tactful but makes little qualms about making fun of religion, all religions. So marrying this Kafir is OK? And if she goes ahead with this, what should the parents do? The mother is crying all the time.
[/QUOTE]
According to Islamic Law she can't marry a non-believer. I think the parents should talk to her daughter and explain the disadvantage of proceeding through this.
Anyway, I hope that she can do more dawa and explain thoroughly about Islam to her Chinese friend.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by dewana tera: *
in this case the nikah would not be valid. and the parent are right in opposing the marriage.
a Muslim girl has every right to chose her own Muslim husband.
[/QUOTE]
I think that is accepted as true. The question is whether they can do anything other than ring their hands about it. If they were in Pakistan, there would be "extremely heavy" social pressure and they could effectively oppose it. Here, I don't beleive they can do anything other than ring their hands. If the marriage does go through, as it likely to do, is there any precendence on how her family should act towards them? As an American, I cannot help compare it to the old Sidney Poiter movie: "Guess who is coming to dinner". Though there the issue is merely a cultural racial issue.
My understanding of marriage ability of boys & girls is so Emperical that i dont remember the references anymore having incorporated it as divine truth. undisputed unarguable or debatable
Parents are biological part of daughter & there relationship is more than Religous.
But yes without marriage to boys from genuine muslim familiy it is imperative for girls to make sure whom so ever they marry are truly converting NOT to sleep with her type only …
I know a Singaporean girl who married a boy from New Jersey who i never thaught really converted except that he tolerated the girls dress religion food etc.Theyu are now getting divorce after 4-5 yrs & a 3 yrs daughter !!!
IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO HOW MUCH YOU WANT TO BE MUSLIM.MANY FAMILIES DONT INSTILL ISLAM IN BOYS OR GIRLS .Such children are 100% at risk to be drowned in irreligousness where hindu muslim christian chinese jamaican all become one BIG FAMILY & sing KHUMBAYA drinking tequila on spring break:rotato: 