Camp Delta kids torture claims

Camp Delta kids torture claims
Sunday 03-07-2005

*By Hafiza Akhtar *

The US has deliberately misled the public about the presence of children in Guantanamo Bay, according to a leading human rights lawyer.

The lawyer, who represents 40 detainees, claims that there are currently up to nine detainees who were under-age – usually aged 14 or 15 – at the time of their arrest.

… After the Afghan children, aged 13 to 15 were released last year UNICEF stated that their release did not “end the issue of child soldiers at Guantanamo.” The organization insisted that U.S. officials must “turn their attention to the other juvenile detainees at Guantanamo Bay - a small number of 16-and 17-year-olds that have not been separated out of the adult population.”…

The Muslim Weekly

… and this is why the Americans the sickest people ever to walk on this earth?

Re: Camp Delta kids torture claims

You obviously know nothing about sick people, history, or the face of evil. Brush on a little history of warfare before you go off on these rants.

Here is what German prison camps were like holding Russian prisoners:

**Conditions in the prison camps themselves were similarly atrocious. “There were no barracks or permanent housing. The camps were simply open areas fenced off with barbed wire. The prisoners had to lie in the sun, then in mud, and in the fall – with temperatures as low as minus 30 degreees centigrade – faced the possibility of freezing to death.” (The German Army and Genocide, p. 142.) A Hungarian tank officer who visited one enclosure described it as follows: “Behind wire there were tens of thousands of Russian prisoners. Many were on the point of expiring. Few could stand on their feet. Their faces were dried up and their eyes sunk deep into their sockets. Hundreds were dying every day, and those who had any strength left dumped them in a vast pit” (Werth, Russia At War, pp. 635-36). Cannibalism was rife, and deliberate, according to Dallin: “German policy had caused, or at the very least had tolerated, the degradation of the prisoners – and then held it up to its own people as something to be reviled, as something typical of a sub-human who could never be like Western man” **(Dallin, German Rule in Russia, p. 415).

In his epic masterpiece The Gulag Archipelago, Alexander Solzhenitsyn describes the scene in one POW camp, with “the evening mist hoverng above a swampy meadow encircled by barbed wire; a multitude of bonfires; and, around the bonfires, beings who had once been Russian officers but had now become beastlike creatures who gnawed the bones of dead horses, who baked patties from potato rinds, who smoked manure and were all swarming with lice. Not all these two-legged creatures had died as yet. Not all of them had lost the capacity for intelligible speech, and one could see in the crimson reflections of the bonfires how a belated understanding was dawning on those faces which were descending to the Neanderthal.” (Solzhenitsyn, The Gulag Archipelago [Harper & Row, 1973], p. 218.)

Mass death through starvation was anticipated well in advance by Nazi military planners. “Daily rations amounted to only one-fourth of what a normal person needed to survive. These meager rations resulted from the decision reached before the campaign, i.e. that providing food for the Wehrmacht and for Germany had the highest priority. ‘As a result, millions of people will surely starve,’ was the terse conclusion formulated at a conference of German State Secretaries in Berlin in May 1941.” (The German Army and Genocide, p. 142.)

Despite the eventual shift from outright extinction to slave labour, which also swept up hundreds of thousands of Soviet women, “maltreatment continued … to the very end,” with “instances of cruel atrocities … reported as late as the winter of 1944-5” (Bartov, The Eastern Front, p. 110). “Many [prisoners] were shot,” writes Alexander Werth, “many died in concentration camps during the later stages of the war, … [and] some were even used for vivisectionist and other ‘scientific’ experiments” (Russia At War, p. 635).

How many died?

Because the targeted group consisted for the most part of soldiers in a bureaucratically-run modern army, the gendercide against Soviet prisoners-of-war is one of the best-documented of these case studies. Daniel Goldhagen, in Hitler’s Willing Executioners (p. 290), gives the astonishing figure of “2.8 million young, healthy Soviet POWs” killed by the Germans, “mainly by starvation … in less than eight months” of 1941-42,.
http://www.gendercide.org/case_soviet.html

Re: Camp Delta kids torture claims

Ok now we are using the nazis to justify what the US does? Wow. Talk about sinking low.

Re: Camp Delta kids torture claims

This sort of thing is nothing new from the US government. Just read up on how it threw Japanese-American’s into internment camps during WW2, or what they did to little kids in Vietnam.

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No, not using the Nazis at all, not the Russians, not the Japanese nor the North Koreans.

What I am doing is showing that Anti-US propanda is so hopelessly out of proportion to reality that uneducated dolts who have no conception of the horrors in this world make over the top statements like "... and this is why the Americans the sickest people ever to walk on this earth?". In reality Americans have removed some of the sickest regimes on earth from power. Our troops have been prisoners in some of the worst conditions on earth.

I do not doubt the effectiveness of the propaganda against the US. Even the most apparently well bred and well educated appear to have no sense of balance or proportionality. 20 years from now many of you will wake up a little older and wiser, but for some time most of you will be brainwashed in your arrogant thinking.

Re: Camp Delta kids torture claims

The US has also been one of the sickest regimes of them all as well. So its basically evil taking out evil to paraphrase Bush.

[quote]
...but for some time most of you will be brainwashed in your arrogant thinking.
[/quote]

Talking from experience I see. That is why the average american is seen by the rest of the world as brainwashed and arrogant in thinking.

Re: Camp Delta kids torture claims

Hey CM, what countries in the rest of the world have you been or talking about? I just got off the phone after making my reservations for a hotel in Rhodes, and guy was practically begging me to spread the word around, as Americans are not going to his pension for some bad publicity he had gotten in one of the lonely planet books. He gave me a huge discount. The rest of the world is not just Saudi Arabia and your Molvi Brigade; it includes places, which you have yet to see (if you can get a visa that is). If you think that’s what an average American is thought of by the “rest” of the world, you have no clue what they think of an average “muslim”. Would you like me to tell you that? So there.

:jhanda:

Re: Camp Delta kids torture claims

NYA read the news. The NYT i bet has covered the fact that american backpackers in Europe place canadian flags on their bags so that they don't face discrimination and crictism because they are americans.

Re: Camp Delta kids torture claims

The site is bogus. Click on contact us.

Re: Camp Delta kids torture claims

http://hrw.org/english/docs/2005/04/27/usint10545.htm

**U.S.: Abu Ghraib Only the “Tip of the Iceberg” **

The crimes at Abu Ghraib are part of a larger pattern of abuses against Muslim detainees around the world, Human Rights Watch said on the eve of the April 28 anniversary of the first pictures of U.S. soldiers brutalizing prisoners at the Iraqi jail. Abu Ghraib was only the tip of the iceberg. It’s now clear that abuse of detainees has happened all over—from Afghanistan to Guantánamo Bay to a lot of third-country dungeons where the United States has sent prisoners. And probably quite a few other places we don’t even know about. Human Rights Watch released a summary (below) of evidence of U.S. abuse of detainees in Iraq, Afghanistan, and Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, as well as of the programs of secret CIA detention, “extraordinary renditions,” and “reverse renditions.”

“Abu Ghraib was only the tip of the iceberg,” said Reed Brody, special counsel for Human Rights Watch. “It’s now clear that abuse of detainees has happened all over—from Afghanistan to Guantánamo Bay to a lot of third-country dungeons where the United States has sent prisoners. And probably quite a few other places we don’t even know about.” Human Rights Watch called this week for the appointment of a special prosecutor to investigate the culpability of Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and ex-CIA Director George Tenet, as well as Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez, formerly the top U.S. commander in Iraq, and Gen. Geoffrey Miller, the former commander of the prison camp at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba in cases of crimes against detainees. It rejected last week’s report by the Army Inspector General which was said to absolve Gen. Sanchez of responsibility. “General Sanchez gave the troops at Abu Ghraib the green light to use dogs to terrorize detainees, and they did, and we know what happened, said Brody. “And while mayhem went on under his nose for three months, Sanchez didn’t step in to halt it.” Human Rights Watch also expressed concern that, despite all the damage that had been done by the detainee abuse scandal, the United States had not stopped the use of illegal coercive interrogation. In January 2005, Attorney General Alberto Gonzales claimed in a written response during his confirmation hearings that the prohibition on cruel, inhuman, or degrading (CID) treatment does not apply to U.S. personnel in the treatment of non-citizens abroad, indicating that no law would prohibit the CIA from engaging in CID treatment when it interrogates non-Americans outside the United States.

Human Rights Watch said that the U.S. government was still withholding key information about the treatment of detainees, including directives reportedly signed by President George W. Bush authorizing the CIA to establish secret detention facilities and to “render” suspects to countries where torture is used. “If the United States is to wipe away the stain of Abu Ghraib, it needs to investigate those at the top who ordered or condoned abuse and come clean on what the president has authorized,” said Brody. “Washington must repudiate, once and for all, the mistreatment of detainees in the name of the war on terror.”

U.S. Abuse of Detainees around the World

**Afghanistan: **

Nine detainees are now known to have died in U.S. custody in Afghanistan—including four cases already determined by Army investigators to be murder or manslaughter. Former detainees have made scores of other claims of torture and other mistreatment. In a March 2004 report, Human Rights Watch documented cases of U.S. personnel arbitrarily detaining Afghan civilians, using excessive force during arrests of non-combatants, and mistreating detainees. Detainees held at military bases in 2002 and 2003 described to Human Rights Watch being beaten severely by both guards and interrogators, deprived of sleep for extended periods, and intentionally exposed to extreme cold, as well as other inhumane and degrading treatment. In December 2004, Human Rights Watch raised additional concerns about detainee deaths, including one alleged to have occurred as late as September 2004. In March 2005, The Washington Post uncovered another death in CIA custody, noting that the case was under investigation but that the CIA officer implicated had been promoted.

**Guantánamo Bay, Cuba: **

There is growing evidence that detainees at Guantánamo have suffered torture and other cruel, inhuman, or degrading treatment. Reports by FBI agents who witnessed detainee abuse—including chained detainees forced to sit in their own excrement—have recently emerged, adding to the statements of former detainees describing the use of painful stress positions, use of military dogs to threaten detainees, threats of torture and death, and prolonged exposure to extremes of heat, cold and noise. Ex-detainees also said they had been subjected to weeks and even months in solitary confinement—at times either suffocatingly hot or cold from excessive air conditioning—as punishment for failure to cooperate. Videotapes of riot squads subduing suspects reportedly show the guards punching some detainees, tying one to a gurney for questioning and forcing a dozen to strip from the waist down. The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) has told the U.S. government in confidential reports that its treatment of detainees has involved psychological and physical coercion that is “tantamount to torture.”

**Iraq: **

Harsh and coercive interrogation techniques such as subjecting detainees to painful stress positions and extended sleep deprivation have been routinely used in detention centers throughout Iraq. The Schlesinger panel appointed by Secretary Rumsfeld noted 55 substantiated cases of detainee abuse in Iraq, plus 20 instances of detainee deaths still under investigation. The earlier report of Maj. Gen. Antonio Taguba found “numerous incidents of sadistic, blatant, and wanton criminal abuses” constituting “systematic and illegal abuse of detainees” at Abu Ghraib. Another Pentagon report documented 44 allegations of such war crimes at Abu Ghraib. An ICRC report concluded that in military intelligence sections of Abu Ghraib, “methods of physical and psychological coercion used by the interrogators appeared to be part of the standard operating procedures by military intelligence personnel to obtain confessions and extract information.”

**CIA “Disappearances” and Torture: **

At least 11 al-Qaeda suspects, and most likely many more, have “disappeared” in U.S. custody. The Central Intelligence Agency is holding the detainees in undisclosed locations, with no notification to their families, no access to the International Committee of the Red Cross or oversight of any sort of their treatment, and in some cases, no acknowledgement that they are even being held, effectively placing them beyond the protection of the law. One detainee, Khalid Shaikh Muhammed, was reportedly subjected to “water boarding” in which a person is strapped down, forcibly pushed under water, and made to believe he might drown. It was also reported that U.S. officials initially withheld painkillers from Abu Zubayda, who was shot during his capture, as an interrogation device.

**“Extraordinary Renditions”: **

The CIA has transferred some 100 to 150 detainees to countries in the Middle East known to practice torture routinely. In one case, Maher Arar, a Canadian in transit in New York, was detained by U.S. authorities and sent to Syria. He was released without charge from Syrian custody ten months later and has described repeated torture, often with cables and electrical cords. In another case, a U.S. government-leased airplane transported two Egyptian suspects who were blindfolded, hooded, drugged, and diapered by hooded operatives, from Sweden to Egypt. There the two men were held incommunicado for five weeks and have given detailed accounts torture, including electric shocks. In a third case, Mamdouh Habib, an Australian in American custody, was transported from Pakistan to Afghanistan to Egypt to Guantánamo Bay. Now back home in Australia, Habib alleges that he was tortured in Egypt with beatings and electric shocks, and hung from the walls by hooks.

**“Reverse Renditions”: **

Detainees arrested by foreign authorities in non-combat and non-battlefield situations have been transferred to the United States without basic protections afforded to criminal suspects. Abd al-Salam Ali al-Hila, a Yemeni businessman captured in Egypt, for instance, was handed over to U.S. authorities and “disappeared” for more than a year and a half before being sent to Guantánamo Bay Naval Base in Cuba. Six Algerians held in Bosnia were transferred to U.S. officials in January 2002 (despite a Bosnian high court order to release them) and were sent to Guantánamo.

Re: Camp Delta kids torture claims

CM, are you suggesting that Europeans are that dumb that they have to see an American Flag to figure out who is American and who is not? (I agree with you that Europeans are dumb idiots). But don’t you always say that it is not the American people but the policies? You liar you.

I think the Canadian flags are to fool the Muslim suicide bombers who can’t tell the difference between their ass and nose.

Re: Camp Delta kids torture claims

Sweetheart you as always miss the point. The point is that americans fear and hate calling themselves americans in public. They hate the idea to be associated with Bush. They don't want to draw attention to themselves that they are americans and thus rather be canadains because they hate what the govt does.

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CM, I don't know who is dumber, the one who is deflecting attention by being so obvious, or the one judging them. Americans could give a fk about what Europeans or other think of them. I thougt you could have figured this much out. and Canadians of all the people? Come on be real. What do Saudis pretend to be when they go to Rome or London? What do you propose the US Bike team for Tourdefrance should wear this year? Canadian flags? Did you see the two girl Champs in Wimbelodn? Both Canadians, eh.

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If the US could not care then why does the US need the UK, Polish and Italian military in Iraq? Why is Nato in Afghanistan? Secondly sweety while you speak out of ignorance. I speak out of experience. You want the number of the American Association in Geneva? You can talk to them about how American's rather not be identified by their nationality.

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But it is the “pretend to be Canadian” part that is killing me. But then again, it is equalized by your comical b.s. and pretentiousness. Yeah, post the # of the American Ass in Geneva. What do they do?

US travelers who go to spend their holidays overseas don't give a shyt about Poland, Italy, and military matters. Get it?

Re: Camp Delta kids torture claims

Madhanee, you should know better... apparently when the G8 meets, before they huddle up in the room, they go and pay their homage to 23 yr olds with mediocre pedigree in both education and profesional experience. tujhay yeh nahin pata?

Re: Camp Delta kids torture claims

You forgot personality.

Re: Camp Delta kids torture claims

SOrry..I am still getting over the Sikh wedding I went to over the weekend. :nuch: :bhangra:

And personality of a wet napkin…

Re: Camp Delta kids torture claims

a napkin? you can do better than that...surely.

Hope you had fun at the wedding, i havent been to a sardarji wedding in years. They have rows of tables full of booze, whisky bottles that really do look like coke bottles and vodka that tastes just the same as lemonade.

Re: Camp Delta kids torture claims

Back to the original topic, when the Telegraph interviewed children who were recently released, they said they had FUN. Now who do we beleive, a lawyer operating on rumor an innuendo, or the kids themselves.

I had a good time at Guantanamo, says inmate
By Rajeev Syal
(Filed: 08/02/2004)

An Afghan boy whose 14-month detention by US authorities as a terrorist suspect in Cuba prompted an outcry from human rights campaigners said yesterday that he enjoyed his time in the camp.

Mohammed Ismail Agha, 15, who until last week was held at the US military base in Guantanamo Bay, said that he was treated very well and particularly enjoyed learning to speak English. His words will disappoint critics of the US policy of detaining “illegal combatants” in south-east Cuba indefinitely and without trial.

In a first interview with any of the three juveniles held by the US at Guantanamo Bay base, Mohammed said: “They gave me a good time in Cuba. They were very nice to me, giving me English lessons.”

Mohammed, an unemployed Afghan farmer, found the surroundings in Cuba at first baffling. After he settled in, however, he was left to enjoy stimulating school work, good food and prayer.

“At first I was unhappy . . . For two or three days [after I arrived in Cuba] I was confused but later the Americans were so nice to me. They gave me good food with fruit and water for ablutions and prayer,” he said yesterday in Naw Zad, a remote market town in southern Afghanistan close to his home village and 300 miles south-west of Kabul, the capital.

He said that the American soldiers taught him and his fellow child captives - aged 15 and 13 - to write and speak a little English. They supplied them with books in their native Pashto language. When the three boys left last week for Afghanistan, the soldiers looking after them gave them a send-off dinner and urged them to continue their studies.

“They even took photographs of us all together before we left,” he said. Mohammed, however, said he would have to disappoint his captors by not returning to his studies. “I am too poor for that. I will have to look for work,” he said.

Mohammed said his detention began in November 2002 when he and a friend, both unemployed, left their farming community for Lashkar Gah, a nearby town. He said that as they stood outside a shop they were detained by a group of armed men who accused them of being members of the Taliban, the fundamentalist Islamic movement formerly in power in Afghanistan.

They were then handed over to US soldiers, who took them to the southern city of Kandahar, he claimed. They were taken to Bagram air base, where Mohammed was held in solitary confinement.

“They were asking me if I was Taliban. I said, ‘No, I am innocent’. I thought they were going to release me but instead they put me on a plane,” he said. “They asked me to wear a hood for part of the journey. When I got off the plane I was in Cuba.”

While Mohammed praised the American soldiers who watched over him, he criticised the US authorities for failing to contact his parents for 10 months to let them know that he was alive. “They stole 14 months of my life, and my family’s life. I was entirely innocent: just a poor boy looking for work,” he said.

Mohammed and his fellow juvenile detainees returned to Afghanistan last week, after the intervention of the International Committee of the Red Cross. His words of praise for the American soldiers in Guantanamo Bay echo those of Faiz Mohammed, an elderly Afghan farmer who was detained at the base for eight months before being released in October 2002.

“They treated us well. We had enough food. I didn’t mind [being detained] because they took my old clothes and gave me new clothes,” said the farmer, who was partially deaf.

Camp Delta, which superseded the temporary Camp X-Ray, and Camp Iguana, a lower-security detention facility for juveniles, were established as part of President George W Bush’s “war on terror”.

More than 600 suspected al-Qaeda and Taliban suspects have been held without charge at the barbed-wire camps since December 2001. They include nine Britons and three British residents.

Human rights agencies such as Amnesty International have alleged that the detention of the boys contravened the Geneva Convention, saying the separation from their families amounted to a form of mental torture. One of the boys was just 11 when he was detained.

The US authorities insist that age plays no role in deciding who constitutes a threat. “Age is not a determining factor in detention. We detain enemy combatants who engaged in armed conflict against our forces or provided support to those fighting against us,” said a Pentagon spokesman.

Another US government official contradicted Mohammed’s claims that he was entirely innocent when detained. The official said last week that one of the three boys had told of being conscripted into an anti-American militia group; a second said that he was abducted by the Taliban and forced to train and fight; while the third was studying in an extremist mosque and captured while preparing to obtain weapons.