Calling someone Kaafir

[Seminole]

Re: Calling someone Kaafir

@Debater

First of all we Muslims from over all the world, regardless of their state of Iman and culture and language and econonmy are the most broad minded and tolerant nation

If you do justice and look around, you will find only Christians, Jews and Hindus the most cruel and cunning people througout the globe

[deedawar]

Re: Calling someone Kaafir

@Captain1

yet another misinterpratation/misunderstanding. Most “madrassas” that mass population sends their kids to only teach them how to “pronounce” or “read” Quran’s text (HINT: no understanding of text). Then there are madrassas which teach understanding of Quran and other texts of Islam but then thats all they teach, those are the ones blamed by west for resulting in “extremists/fundamentalists/terrorists” etc. so once again your post shows how far you are from reality and you think of yourself a learned person all about Pakistan, Islam and Muslims.

There is no mass population which sends people to madsassas.

Just wanted to correct this statement.

[deedawar]

Re: Calling someone Kaafir

@Haseeb Ahmad

Give proof of your “exception” to calling someone a kafir. I do not think it is right to ever call someone a kafir, no matter what! What gives you the right to judge them, even if they fight, hate, or attack Islam. It does not matter, you DO NOT call anyone a kafir. Give me proof that you are right.

Besides, to call ANYONE a kafir would be like announcing that they will be going to Hell. But, you do not know what is in anyone’s heart. Maybe they are good. So God might forgive them if they lead a proper life with no really bad mistakes. You are not God, so you cannot judge someone a kafir. You can only call believers believers, but never call a disbeliever a disbeliever. Tell me a verse of the Quran that gives anyone the right to call anyone a kafir. You will find no such verse. Only Allah calls kafirs kafirs, not people. Try to prove me wrong. AND WITH AN AUTHENTIC VERSE OF THE HOLY QURAN!

Unfortunately this post is based on many mis-informations and misconceptions.

1- A kafir is a person who denies basic islamic beliefs.

2- Calling such person is only stating the FACT.

3- If someone acts against …meaning …fight, hate, attack or even mock at muslims beliefs ..that person is Kaafir.

4- If Quran says someone is kafir then why a muslim (or anyone for that matter) cannot call that person Kafir?

5- if you are asking for a verse then why not show a verse which prohibits calling a kafir, kafir?

6- You used “authentic verse” as a wrod for whatever reason!!
Tell me what do you know about un-authentic verse of Holy Quran?

7- Calling someone kafir does not mean that the person will go to hell eventually as you suggested. It only means tht the person AT THAT TIME is kafir and thats all. If that person repents in his lifetime then as Allah promises, that person will be rewarded accordingly.

8- You used word God..then so be it. No one said he/she is god if he/she calls someone kafir. Did you hear that somewhere in your dreams maybe?

[deedawar]

Re: Calling someone Kaafir

I suspect that this thread is started in respect to Qadyiani or Ahmadi thinking.

[nikaabwaali]

Re: Calling someone Kaafir

@deedawar

I suspect that this thread is started in respect to Qadyiani or Ahmadi thinking.

wow

[expatobserver]

Re: Calling someone Kaafir

@Debater

^Well, I gave you an example of my country where Jews, Christians and Hindus are not butchered and tortured in response to Crusaders’ attack over Afghanistan, Iraq etc and we didn’t attack Christian community here in Pakistan while the Great Britishers were attacking Muslims over London blasts, not only the Britishers but Muslims were attacked by other European Christians as well though they were not attacked by anyone.

If you do justice and look around, you will find only Christians, Jews and Hindus the most cruel and cunning people througout the globe, the way they are attacking smaller and weak nations and creating conflicts between nations (especially Muslims) so that they can do good business of arms and weapons.

Then what is this?

[font=TREBUCHET, TIMES NEW ROMAN, GEORGIA, TIMES]Christians in Pakistan describe recent attacks
[font=ARIAL, TREBUCHET, HELVETICA]A mob of 3,000 Muslims set fire to three churches, a nursing hostel, a nuns’ hostel, a convent school and six Christian homes

http://www.speroforum.com/site/images/space.gif

[font=Arial, Trebuchet MS, Helvetica]Monday, November 28, 2005by Spero News http://www.speroforum.com/site/images/more.gif

http://www.speroforum.com/site/img/t_pixel.gif

Christians in Pakistan say mainstream press is ignoring their plight.

They say a mob of 3,000 Muslims, mostly youth, set to fire to three churches and the homes of two clergymen. The mob also destroyed a nursing hostel, a nuns’ hostel, a convent school and four other houses in Sangla Hill area of district Nankana earlier in November.

The rampaging crowd was protesting against alleged desecration of the Quran.

Some 300 Christian families reside in the Tehsil.

The rioting began Friday, November 11, after it is alleged that a man, Yousaf Masih, threw a burning matchstick in the Quran Mahal situated in the Sangla Hill stadium. A fire began and copies of the Quran were burnt. Students of a Seminary run by Anjuman Melad-i-Mustfa and staff of a dispensary adjacent to the Quran Mahal rushed to the spot and saved the remaining copies of the Muslim holy book, newspapers and other material.

Others claim a different reason for the subsequent rioting. Akram Gill, a Christian legislator, said the dispute was due to a gambling debt owed by two Muslims to a Christian. “They refused to pay the money and created this nuisance,” Gill said.

Tensions only continued to rise, said eyewitnesses.

According to Christians in Pakistan, ten hours after the incident, announcements were made from mosques asking people to gather in front of the Jamia Madni Masjid of the town. Similar announcements were also made after Fajr prayers on Saturday. People were asked to observe a complete strike and to not send their children to school.

Even the Reuters news agency suggested that the attack seemed to be planned as the people were brought to the site on buses.

Responding to the call, a large mob carrying hockey sticks, iron rods, and axes assembled at the appointed place. Eyewitnesses said some youths also carried tins of kerosene oil.

With the crowd gathered, the Christians claim the Muslim religious leaders began to make speeches that provoked the youth to set to fire to each and every place of worship of the minority Christian community.

Obeying the orders, the crowd rushed to Presbyterian Church of Pakistan situated on the Faisalabad Road and set it to fire. All the furniture, fixtures, articles, and religious books were consumed by the blaze. The residence of Pastor Tajamal Perveiz was also burnt.

The enraged youth then went to the Roman Catholic Church of Holy Spirit in the Mancher Colony and vandalized it as well as the residence of Father Semson Dilawar. They also caused severe damage to the Saint Anthony High School, destroying its furniture, records, laboratories and library. Ironically, some 650 girls receive education at the school, the majority of them are Muslims.

“Nuns, teachers and 23 terrified schoolgirls crammed into a small upstairs room of the besieged convent as more than 1,500 men, incensed by rumours of Qur’an desecration, swarmed outside. Fr Dilawar watched from the roof as they smashed the altar of the parish church, tore up copies of the Bible and shattered the stained-glass windows. They sprayed fuel over his house and a girls’ school next door. Minutes later flames were licking the walls and black smoke filled the sky,” according to an India Monitor article.

"Finally they crashed through the heavy convent door, sending the priest running for safety into the room where nine nuns were praying. ‘They tried to break the door down but did not succeed. Otherwise we could have all been killed,’ Fr Dilawar said, according to the India Monitor.

A Salvation Army church was also destroyed.

Eventually, police used tear-gas shells and resorted to a baton charge to disperse the crowd.

DPO Tahir Alam told protesters that the accused had been arrested and a case under section 295-B registered in the Sangla Hill police station. Police later arrested 80 people for taking part in the rioting.

Speaking last week in India, the Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams told reporters that the incident had focussed attention on the problems caused by blasphemy laws.

“I think it is widely recognised that the abuse of the blasphemy laws is a major problem which this country has to tackle; the problem is not so much the idea of a law against blasphemy as about a law whose penalty is so severe and whose practice gives so much scope for allowing people to settle private scores.”

“It is true that in many areas the concern has been expressed that local authorities have been slow to respond. On the other hand, the National authorities have condemned these activities and I think that’s where the leverage lies,” Williams said.

Source:* http://www.speroforum.com/site/article.asp?idCategory=33&idsub=122&id=2202I*