Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque
No one needs to be spoon fed lies from pro mullah newspapers.
Haha, anything that you dont like to hear is pro-Mullah. :D
These interviews can be read on any Daily Papers such as Nawaiwaqt, Khabrain etc.
Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque
You must belong to terrorist group MQM.
You belong to internationaly recognized terrorist group Al Qaeda and Taliban. In every country of the world you will be declared a terrorist.
Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque
I think you were not following the whole incident. Few hours before the negotiations, they reached a deal with Chaudary Shujat. But when he went to President House to get a final approval, Musharraf rejected it.
Negotiations? What negotiation with terrorists? Negotiating to accept their demands to leave them alone and forgive all their crimes?
I don’t think that government had any right to accept such demands. The best government could have done was ask them to surrender and then let the court decides their fate. That is all. These terrorists were not agreeing to that and since they did not wanted to surrender, actions became necessity.
Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque
Haha, anything that you dont like to hear is pro-Mullah. :D These interviews can be read on any Daily Papers such as Nawaiwaqt, Khabrain etc.
And everythign you don't like (i.e. truth) is secular and kuffar. Have you seen the videos posted of what the lal masjid terrorists were doing?
Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque
Negotiations? What negotiation with terrorists? Negotiating to accept their demands to leave them alone and forgive all their crimes?
I don’t think that government had any right to accept such demands. The best government could have done was ask them to surrender and then let the court decides their fate. That is all. These terrorists were not agreeing to that and since they did not wanted to surrender, actions became necessity.
Terrorsits in your words. Musharraf government is a terrorist. Who can be a biggest terrorist than Musharraf? There are many ministers in the Musharrafs govternment who are terrorists such as Sher Pao.
His hands are filled with the blood of Muslims of Afghanistan, and Pakistan etc.
Why is MQM the biggest terrorits of Pakistan in the government?
People of Lal Masjid were not involved in any terrorist activity. All their demands were very reasonable.
Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque
Terrorsits in your words. Musharraf government is a terrorist. Who can be a biggest terrorist than Musharraf? There are many ministers in the Musharrafs govternment who are terrorists such as Sher Pao.
His hands are filled with the blood of Muslims of Afghanistan, and Pakistan etc.
Why is MQM the biggest terrorits of Pakistan in the government?
People of Lal Masjid were not involved in any terrorist activity. All their demands were very reasonable.
Musharraf is President of Pakistan and represent government of Pakistan. If you do not know that, find out :). I am sure that you will be able to find out that President Musharraf is President of Pakistan. ...
Another thing, if you do not know, let me tell you something. Government cannot be terrorists and only ignorant can say that government is terrorists. You could not call government terrorists though you may call government supporter of group that some others might consider them terrorists, but never the less, no one can call government terrorists :) Don’t you know that? :D If you do not know this simple fact, it means height of ignorance. :)
Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque
Terrorsits in your words. Musharraf government is a terrorist. Who can be a biggest terrorist than Musharraf? There are many ministers in the Musharrafs govternment who are terrorists such as Sher Pao.
His hands are filled with the blood of Muslims of Afghanistan, and Pakistan etc.
Why is MQM the biggest terrorits of Pakistan in the government?
People of Lal Masjid were not involved in any terrorist activity. All their demands were very reasonable.
The biggest terrorists are Taliban and Al Qaeda who have killed thousands of muslims in afghanistan and pakistan. Even today they are doing suicide bombings against muslims.
Ghazi had no reasonable demands, he only vandalized, attacked, kidnapped, harassed, and killed people. And what gives him the right to make demands and force everyone else to do as he pleases? He said they he does not want to surrender at threat of force so why was his gang going around threatening people before? Demands of terrorists can never be listened too.
Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque
Terrorsits in your words. Musharraf government is a terrorist. Who can be a biggest terrorist than Musharraf? There are many ministers in the Musharrafs govternment who are terrorists such as Sher Pao.
His hands are filled with the blood of Muslims of Afghanistan, and Pakistan etc.
Why is MQM the biggest terrorits of Pakistan in the government?
People of Lal Masjid were not involved in any terrorist activity. All their demands were very reasonable.
Another thing I should tell you is that USA could not have called Taliban terrorists if Taliban were government of Afghanistan recognized by world countries. In legal terms, Taliban was not government of Afghanistan (well, I thing only three countries recognized Taliban as government of Afghanistan). If Taliban were universally recognized as government of Afghanistan, USA could not have declared Taliban terrorists and their prisoners as combatant, but they would have become prisoners of war.
Further, you should know is that, people in Lal building were criminals and terrorists (they broke laws of the country that classify them as criminals, and they also broke laws of the country that classify them as terrorists). So, they were officially criminals and terrorists under any laws. They were criminals even under Islamic laws (well, wonder if you know Islam, but if you knew, you would know that what I wrote).
As for President Musharraf, it was not his right, but his duty to crush these retards of Lal Building, wana and others in the country that challenged the state and were not partner in the government (as partners in government are part of government and are thus cannot be terrorists or criminals). Ayub, Yahya, Bhutto, Zia, BB, Nawaz, all killed many innocents during their rule, but no one can call any of them terrorist or criminals because they were government.
[Note: individually a person, even if that person is part of government, could do crime an could be judged as criminal, but if they would do anything as part of government policy, they as government could not be called criminals or terrorists].
Another thing you should know is that, a person is government once that person takes the power, regardless of the mean of taking power. In old days, people use to fight and occupy countries and use to become government, still once taken the government, they become legal government (because government means power to implement laws in the country). Once Musharraf took over Pakistan, he became government. That is different matter that while taking over, if a person did not succeed, coup fails, than that would have meant court martial and possible death penalty. But not after a person takes the power.
So, I hope that at least when writing something, please write with some knowledge. :D
Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque
LOL...functioning courts and legal system? Tell that to the CJ.
The syste HAS FLAWS Pico sahib, but that doesnt mean you turn to vigilante squads... The System has to be improved, we dont need a BRAND new system to take its place! Thats is anarachist thinking, and that only leads to anarchy!
You seem to have a lot of misplaced faith in your relgious vice squad, but you fail to realize that the masjid brigade is not under any control, that they liable to do anything! That is why they are threateing SUICIDE bombings... This isnt justice Pico, this is anarchy!
We need to imporve the system not create Shria courts and vigilante squads!
AND BTW, Justice has been served by our courts in the past... Are courts arent completely dysfuntional, they actually DO exist and they do work... One of the reason why the CJ was suspended is believed to be because he was aqctually doing his job!
Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque
Who knows. Arming such groups is government policy; there's no evidence this has stopped. For all we know, this was a lovers spat between Mush and his dogs of war.
Again, if they wanted to terrorize the population, they could have picked softer targets. They were quite select up to the abduction of the police officers.
And what they did do was rather...lame. But hardly on par with overthrowing a government.
...be real.
One must go to the sewers to see the rats. I can go to places and not see a single criminal...but it's folly to think becaue one does not see it, it doesn't exist.
Gang rapes happen in the open. Feudal lords abuse out in the open. The Military itself is involved in land grabs here and there.
Really...these lame idiots are the ones we need to worry about?
Implement. If you can find them, root them out.
As for drug dealers...they HAVE private armies and very much are out in the open. And what of feudal lords? Not criminal..but then..hey, if what they do isn't criminal...then NOTHING should be....
Yes. And btw the gov. is a part and parcel of all that...
Good point.
But as of this point, last word is they were right about our ol Aunty.
All and all...minor compared to all the other crap that hapens out in the open. Sadly.
The Lal Masjids stated aim was to undermine the govt... That is something that isnt tolerated in ANY country, not under ANY ruler... There is a reason for this... If the govt has no power and no control, if they are being undermined and dictated to by such relgious groups, then we are no better then countries such as Afghanistan, where there is really no central govt... Is that what you would want for us?
And by the way, they DID pick softer targets... They were going out to cd shop owners and threatening them... Remember them burning a pile of DVD's and CD's?
They threarened to blow these shops up? Do you recall that? Thats Islamic justice for you.
Arming such groups may be have been the policy in the past, now its disarming them, and we should all welcome a policy shift.
As for prostitutes, yeah, you have to go to the rats den to find rats... But the Lal Masjid brigade would have us believe that these brothels are EVERYWHERE! Pakistan is literally drowning in Prostitutes! This is simply not the case... The Reason why police dont act is because there simply isnt a problem with Brothels in Pakistan... Brothels are simply an excuse for religous fundos to go out and act as Islams very own vice squads... It gets them sympathy points from the conservative types...
Still, lets assume there are many many brothels, did you ever think that perhaps they should inform the govt, force them to close these places down? Who gave these people the right to police the state? THEY never tried to get the govt involved, they were their own brand of justice! NO STATE, NONE ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD COULD EVER ALLOW SUCH BLATANT VIGILANTE JUSTICE...
Gang Rapes happen all the time, they happen everywhere, infact, some gang rapes are blessed by the local cleric, who feel such is the justice that said offender deserves! And you know aswell as I do the less then wholesome habits of some of out esteemed clergy. But should we have religous fanatics going out and taking it upon themselves to do justice... That is the role of the police and the court system...
Now ofcourse you will say that the Police are corrupt, and wouldnt do a thing, but did the Lal Masjid people try to get the police to take action? No, they just went in and took it upon themselves..
Although I should mention that there was a rape cases taken up by the Masjid people, and they forced to he police to take notice and arrest the culprits.. So there you go...
As for feudalism, that is far more complex a problem then the Lal Masjid could imagine... The only true way to truly end it is through true democracy, education etc... If that had been the stated goal of the Lal people, then many including myself would supported them... Alas they destroyed their credibility with the first kidnapping, suicde bombing threat, etc. Still, we need to imporve or govt system, not rely on two bit mullahs and their brainwashed army to do the job for us.
I know you frustrated with Pakistan, but lest you forget, we actually HAVE a govt of sorts and system in place... What we need to do is create the atmosphere needed for democracy to floursh...
But absolutely under no circumstances, can we rely on vice squads like those at the Lal Masjid... I mean, thats like saying he LAPD should hire the crips to take care of the BLOODS!
The govt is perfect but the alternative is what, Taliban style Shria courts? Are you just naive, or do you not understand that the Lal Masjid brigade was a dangerous entity that had to be controled...
I personally dont understand your faith in such fundamentalist groups... You know aswell as I do the dangers of such groups... I asked you this before and you never replied... Where does it end? Today its brothels, ook fine, tommorow its men outside with their wives, or women drivers... Have you seen what these relligous fundamentalist groups are doing in Lahore University? The religous groups have proven time and time again that they are willing to stoop to any level. You see it everywhere today, the fanatic who murdered the PPP woman about a few months back, the woman professor who was attacked in her office at QAU, there was the case of the girl who had acid thrown on her face because she was wearing jeans! I mean are these the people you would like to see calling the shots!
The govt isnt perfect, but I would take this govt over uncontroled hordes of religous fanatics any day...
Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque
Busharaf is a butcher and tyrant..........simple as that. How many kids and children did he butcher? Will the exact numbers of the truth be known. Never.
Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque
Musharraf will go down in history as the "Butcher of Lal Mosque" like his friend Ariel Sharon who was the Butcher of Shatila.
Dr Ishrat ul Ibad vs Ghazi Rashid. who is a bigger criminal? one murdered by state and other made governer. what is the bigger proof of bigotry of Musharraf?
This is such a stupid thing to say. the morons inside the mosque were given many opprtunities and extensions to bow down to the law - they refused and chose the path of destruction. No - it is those morons who will go down as the butchers. By supporting them you are supporting rabid extremism which may earn you the title of butcher of people and islam too
Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque
Busharaf is a butcher and tyrant..........simple as that. How many kids and children did he butcher? Will the exact numbers of the truth be known. Never.
For the greater good.
Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque
Busharaf is a butcher and tyrant..........simple as that. How many kids and children did he butcher? Will the exact numbers of the truth be known. Never.
aap bilkul sach bol rahay hain...truth will never been told.
Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque
This is such a stupid thing to say. the morons inside the mosque were given many opprtunities and extensions to bow down to the law - they refused and chose the path of destruction. No - it is those morons who will go down as the butchers. By supporting them you are supporting rabid extremism which may earn you the title of butcher of people and islam too
mush and all his supporters are morons....why dont u go and open up a prost cell and then BURN in HELL!!!
Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque
mush and all his supporters are morons....why dont u go and open up a prost cell and then BURN in HELL!!!
I am not a mush supporter. yes a lot of mush supporters are morons. Why do you want me to go to hell?
Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque
Musharraf will go down in history as the "Butcher of Lal Mosque" like his friend Ariel Sharon who was the Butcher of Shatila.
Dr Ishrat ul Ibad vs Ghazi Rashid. who is a bigger criminal? one murdered by state and other made governer. what is the bigger proof of bigotry of Musharraf?
LOOOOOOOL
Musharraf will go down as the Butcher of Terrorists
As for Ariel Sharon, the killings was done by Christian Arabs. No Israeli fired a shot.
Get your facts straight
Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque
stupid arguments by stupid people in favor of killing own citizens unashamedly in the name of enforcing writ of the state.
Oh really. What would you call the murder of our soldiers by these terrorists who live on the border areas?
The nation was in favor of operation to finish the Madrassah and its stupid and dangerous education system. They were not in favour of this savagery of butchery from the days of Gangez Khan and Crusades. By supporting this savagery you have shown your real face. Can't hide behind the facade any more.
And what butchery is that?
The terrorists inside the mosque fired upon our soldiers and the soldiers fired back. Simple as that. I knew that Mullah supporters like you are gonna come out of the woodworks and start shedding your crocodile tears and claim it was a massacre.
Your reaction to the raid is so typical and so calculated that it is even boring.
why did the government did agreement in tribal areas against people whom it could not defeat and who had killed almost 700 soldiers?
Because the Tribals came to the government and asked for peace and pledged to root out foreign terrorists.
If the government cannot defeat you, it will have a peace agreement but if it will have overwhelming strength it will kill you. This is the message of this fiasco and savagery of modern day Gangez a.k.a Musharraf the Butcher.
You are confusing a million different things.
These terrorsits took over a mosque in the heart of the capital and took the law into their own hands. That cannot be allowed.
As for the FATA areas. Those areas have been under tribal rule since 200 years. And thus, those FATA people said to the government that they will pledge to root out terrorists.
Please MFK, go back to your coloring books and crayons
Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque
The message is clear, government will only negotiate with you if you are strong enough to defy government otherwise you will be killed. That is the difference between Waziristan and Lal Mosque
I think its much more complex than that.
Lal Mosque was a terrorist Cancer in the heart of Islamabad. And thus cannot be allowed to continue.
As for Waziristan. We have to employ different strategies there because of the lack of rule of law. If that means we make deals with the tribals to maintain law and order and government authority then so be it.
Its not as black and white as because the Army cannot defeat the tribals and thus they make peace with them, etc...
That is your wishful thinking
Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque
Busharaf is a butcher and tyrant..........simple as that. How many kids and children did he butcher? Will the exact numbers of the truth be known. Never.
As long as he is butchering Terrorist aniamls and imposing his tyranny on terrorists, I dont give a FCUK.
As for kids. Please tell me why these terrorists were holding them as shields.
And please dont give me crap about their bravery. We all saw their brave leader running away from the mosque in a Burka.