Butcher of Lal Mosque

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
21

Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque

First of all you look extremely happy by your posts.

Butchery is because the killings could have been avoided. how many people had been killed by the people in the lal mosque. were they more than people killed by Dr Ishrat alone. (32 murder cases). why is he at large and now a governor. shouldn't zarrar company be sent to 90 to kill all the thugs. answer me kehkasahan.

what MQM did on May 12 was far more grave than these idiots of lal mosque did (they only kidnapped few people but never killed anyone). What MQM did was called people power by the butcher and what these idiots did was called terrorism and challenge to state authority. do you have any answer kehkeshan.

I do not support these idiots and i was very angry on what they were doing and neither i am a bearded deobandi or madrassh student but i think the killings could have been avoided as government had clearly a moral edge.

when Musharraf is required to be strong i.e. at time of women bill his knees wobbles and he gives in to the demand of these mullahs and one he needs to be diplomatic i.e. in lal mosque he tries to be tough and become a butcher only to get a pat on his ass from bush.

22

Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque

1-I dont like mullahs
2-I disagree for talbian's handling state's affairs. But only they could bring peace to afghanistan

3-musharaf let US kill pakistanis--He takes advantage fo extreamit image of pakistan

4- I don't like smart people like yourself being blinded by Govt, so they don't see beyond the what is being shown to them.

23

Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque

Ghazi is the real butcher of Lal Masjid, not Musharaff. If he had been any other Pakistani, minus the beard, and involved in encroaching on land illegally, encouraging kidnapping, vigilante-ism, harrassing businesses and inciting the overthrow of the government, he would have been considered a thug by one and all. Put a beard on someone and hide behind Islam (albeit an interpretation that is accepted by NO legitimate scholars) and suddenly the goon becomes a hero - Absolutely laughable!

24

Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque

6 months not enough for mullah ghazi to give up? If he isn't willing to give up, what can one do? And he did kill a ranger and who knows how many people his fighters had killed elsewhere. Tell me the alternative when he only wanted safe passage for his fighters and himself.

MQM issue, many cases were fabricated against MQM members during the PPP government, everyone knows that. If they want to arrest any MQM member for any real charges against them, let them, no one will hole up in a compound and go to war with Pakistan. If they do, I will be the first one to support the bombing of that compound.

And I am not happy over the deaths, but happy that supremacy of Pakistan was restored.

Men's fashion
25

Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque

Exactly! some of us get all emotional or become defensive even if we see a narrow-minded backward thinking mullah taking the law into their own hands

26

Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque

Finally, a thread where all the Mullah sympathizers can get together and lament the government, mourn the defeat of their intimidation, make hyperbolic arguments to present the Govt of Pakistan some sort of indiscriminate death machine, and show their collective inability to engage in logical analysis even if they have an intellectually honest and legitimate disagreement with how this operation was carried out.

You call this butchery? How dumb and thick your heads must be if you fail to see that Army could have just dropped a fat-ass bomb on the terrorist compound if they really wanted to commit butchery. A fat bomb enough to melt the bodies, and there'd have been no loss of lives of Army personnel, not to mention the whole operation would have incurred a fraction of the political and financial cost that it ended up having.

Disagree with us, fine. Take a stand for Lal Masjid Mullahs, fine. BUT GET A FKING PERSPECTIVE!

27

Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque

Bull sh1t... Religous fundos have your facts wrong... If you ever did anything besides learning how to make bombs you might realize that.

28

Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque

well, MQM is the party to which Musharraf really belongs and he uses all the tactics they use. One one hand they will kill people in Karachi and on other hand try to put up a facade of a relief organization and put up a relief camp with more pomp and show and media coverage than substance.

Let us not forget that not only Ghazi died on 10th July but 500 men, women and children and Zarrar company commandoes had to burn the bodies of women to avoid telling the world that they killed women. Bravo.

I have no sympathies with Ghazi's actions but look at the draft surrender agreement. he wanted removal of cases booked only in the days of seige. all previous ones would have stayed intact. What did government a.k.a Musharraf the butcher gave in reply. Blood

29

Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque

Kehkashan, do not be naive. What i am trying to tell you that there are many bigger criminals not being prosecuted by government in the name of realpolitik but what fault this idiot Ghazi did that he was supposed to be killed even if it required killing 500 people alongwith him

Be truthful, is the govt writ restored in All Pakistan? I am afraid no one can say yes. The government had a perfect chance to defame Madrassah education but they botched the chance. They made them martyrs without reason.

30

Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque

IF any women and children were killed, don't blame the government, blame the adult women who had ample opportunity to leave the compound. How many days should the government have offered amnesty, safe passage, and money to those who were willing to leave?

If they were truly prevented from leaving, then blame the so-called mujahideen who stopped them, not the military. It wasn't the Pakistani military holding guns to their heads to prevent them from leaving.

31

Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque

Mullahtic loony and his burqua loving brother will go down in history as Hanz and Franz of mullhatic loony movement. History will record that Hanz and Franz and their Mickey Mouse movement was crushed like a grape by reasonable, god fearing, Pakistani Muslims and Pakistanis.

32

Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque

The fact is, there ARE multitude of such sorts all over the place in Pakistan. Yet, I have not seen Mushy get personally involved with any of those sorts. Perhaps it's because they haven't issued a threat against him, personally.

It's more about sympathizing with someone who had a beard. Had the Lal masjiders been guilty of rape, committing terrorist acts, selling bootleg alcohol, etc. then he would have been on everyone, and I mean EVERYONE's bad list (er...except those who want alcohol all over the place...in that case they're more than willing to turn a blind eye to murder and rape).

But their stunt was to enforce Islamic law, even though they had no authority to do such. Nor was their approach tempered. Granted.

But then...those acts are a far cry from treason against the state.

Treason would be, say, dismissing the PM and dissolving the parlaiment through a coup. The Army had no such right...yet it did it.

So what people are crying about is that Islamic law was being enforced. And no, women were not being pulled out of school, nobody was getting stoned to death. An alleged (and it turns out there's good evidence for this) brothel-owner was put to task, and some music shops who (probably) were selling porn were harrassed. Oh, what scoundrels.

Yes, the danger of a slippery slope was there. But then, if one wants to take on absurdist slippery slope arguments....so is the danger of religion being supressed for the sake of those who want to drink and have sex in the street. Their is a happy medium, and even the lal masjid twits knew what kinds of people to pick on. And as far as I can tell...they picked on the right sorts.

Personally, I think they really crossed the line when they started abducting police. That was a true crime. But, to deploy the military against them...unh...why? Maybe I missed something in the story...did they murder anyone before the confrontation? Did they overtake a town and enslave the people? What?

Out of all people to take issue with, why these people?

What about all the drug runners? Enslavers of children for the sex shops that are here and there? Shall we even start on the feudal lords who rape on a daily basis?

No...these are it. The worst of the lot. Yeah...right.

On the contrary. Had these people NOT had beards, then people wouldn't pay no mind. Just like they do with every other damn criminal in the country.

So fine...people who support Mush need to put their money where their mouth is. Will Mush crack down on brothels? Will he crack down on booze runners? Or is his intent to kill all those who want Islam to be a part of public life in Pakistan (as per the writ of the state, so people here will kindly spare me the 'what version of Islamic law' routine)?

33

Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque

killing law enforcement folks and burning down state buildings is not treason?
errr what about hording piles of weapons, who were they goign to use them against? they cant go and fight across the border, doing that would be against the state also, they cant pick those arms up in the country.

the question is simple dude...

when they had ample opportunity to surrender why didnt they?

and that ghazi character did not want any cases against him either.

had the military gone in and saw these guys sitting on their hands they would have no reason to shoot anyone would they?

whose fault is that? yours? mine? govts? or the people who engaged in those activities?

34

Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque

PRIOR to the showdown...what was their crime?

Never mind killing police, abducting is bad enoguh. Granted.

But it takes an incredible amount of duplicity to pin treason on them, yet support Mush at the same time.

I digress; maybe that's why Mush was treading lightly...he knew where they were coming from.

[quote]

errr what about hording piles of weapons, who were they goign to use them against?

[/quote]

Don't even. Not when such was norm for the longest while. Who do you think they got those weapons from? For what purpose? You very well know the answer.

[quote]

they cant go and fight across the border, doing that would be against the state also,
[/quote]

You're kidding, right?

[quote]

when they had ample opportunity to surrender why didnt they?

[/quote]

WHY are brothel owners not given the same ultimatum? Drug dealers and bootlegers, whom are armed to the teeth?

[quote]

had the military gone in and saw these guys sitting on their hands they would have no reason to shoot anyone would they?

[/quote]

Given the reaction of some here, their slaughter was welcome anyway. Again, what was the crime that led to the stand off? How does it compare with what others do, and get away with?

Aaj Kiss Baat Par Gussa Aaya ??????
35

Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque

When would be action taken against killers of 12 May? and arms recovered? or are they pet one!

Aaj Kiss Baat Par Gussa Aaya ??????
36

Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque

He challenged the government openly and unashamedly. Their crimes have been listed many times already, majority of them before July 3rd. All of you complaining have yet to provide an alternative solution, and no, safe passage is not a solution.

37

Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque

You are right, ANP, JI, and PPP terrorists should be arrested.

The Random Thread
38

Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque


Let us know when they fight the military, vanadlise public/government properties, harass public/businesses, abduct un-related people, we will pressurise government to take an action, deal?

The Random Thread
39

Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque

As far as where they got the weapons.
http://www.dawn.com/2007/07/14/nat1.htm

And I suspect the weapons were to be used in order to terrorize the nation into implimenting the Taliban style of Sharia, and to create a small army that would challenge the state and murder any rivals.

Brothels owners are not given the same ultimatum because there really arent any Brothels to speak of, except for the ones in the paranoid minds of overly religous fundamentalists… I for one have gone all around Islamabad, and have never seen any brothels…
Bootleggers arent given any ultimatums because bootleggers work undeground, and arent in the public eye… Unless you know where to find them, you wont see them. I also recall you telling me that laws banning Alcahol dont need to be effective, only symbolic, soooooo…
Drug dealers are also underground and are out of the public eye… Only visable if you are going out to find them. Also, its well known that drug trafficing actually supports the activities of many of our esteemed Jihadi groups, particularly those operating in FATA and Afghanistan… So would you really want to cut of the support to these great Islamic warriors fighting for the cause of Islam?

Finally, did you ever suspect that there are other ways to make the govt listen to you besides kidnapping people and threatening suicide bombings (in most circles, threats of mass suicides bombings are considered to be terrorsim).
Does peaceful protest ever come into play… How do you know the govt wont listen?
Did the Lal Masjid ever consder sitting outside that supposed brothel and refusing to move until the govt did somehting about it? Did they ever consider sending someone to investigate the whole issue? Perhaps they could have sent in a student to gather evidence… If they had proof that Aunty Shamim was a pimpet, then they should have protested until the govt itself arrested her and brought her to court…
Also, is threatening to forcefuly shut down cd shops and calling liberal college girls whores worthy of having their faces burnt part of Islam?

Really would like a response, you can choose to ignore but PLEASE, just answer a few…

Rate the avatar above u
40

Re: Butcher of Lal Mosque

ur rt... and Altaf Hussain should be given Hill-e-Imtiaz for more than 150 murder cases