I’m not familiar with the education system in Pakistan. Can anybody explain the process that somebody majoring in business, finance etc. will have to go through, in terms of the number of years of school, internships, requirements, future prospects, job success, application for a masters program, etc?
Any success stories?
There’s probably several kinds of specializations in business, I have no clue, what is most in demand in terms of jobs now and in the future? What school in Pakistan is best for it? What kinds of courses do students do and what prerequisites are needed to get into a good school? Is math necessary?
Any advice for somebody looking to pursue a career in finance or business but who is totally clueless about it all?
U can join a business program in Pakistan after high school in US.
Two of the best institutions for business in pakistan are IBA ( Institute of Business Administration) of Karchi UNiversity, and LUMS ( Lahore University of Management Sciences)
The admissions in the programs is tough, with admission tests to get in, but it may be a bit diff for overseas students. I know aga khanmedical college has diff standards and fees for overseas students.
Khanzada is an IBA grad, he may be able to tell you more.
teh bachelors degree takes 3 years, and masters 1, there are mandatory internships which the school helps you get. JOb opportunties are good. the grads of these institutions have been pickeed up by local as well as multinationals for opportunities iun Pakistan as well as other countries.
One IBA grad iknow was the VP HR for a major multi-national pharma corp in pakistan, another oen asenior exec at a british bank in Pak, and the third one country manager in the middle east for oen of the largest banks in the world. So in general grads from IBA and LUMS do well.
Finance and Marketing are in high demand, not sure about HR, ops mgmt etc.
Sarah, if given a choice do something in the west. Get your undergrad in the west, prefereably the US. There are many outlets to get a business/finance degree. And it would mean you not having to repeat the same degree when you get back.
I agree with Ch, most ppl try to get out to get their degrees not go back. I dont know what your situation is but if you have a choice to stay in canada u can go to U ofT, McGill, Western Ontario etc. they will give you a much more fulfilling educational experience.
Here’s how the education system works in Pakistan for most ppl [unless u do O, A levels which is 13 yrs of schooling n then college which is what I did]:
You spend ten yrs doing MATRIC
Then 2 more yrs doing FSC/FA/Inter if u do A levels, it is = Inter]
Then you go to engineering/medical/business school which is from 4-5 yrs.
Are you seriously thinking of going to Pakistan for undergrad?
For business, the two best schools in Pakistan are IBA [Institue of Business Administration], Karachi and Lahore University of Management Sciences, Lahore. Both are great schools. They both have girls hostels btw. They both also have tracks where you can finish up undergrad and masters both in 5 yrs. IBA grads r gonna kill me for this :biggrin: but I think LUMS has an edge over IBA in terms of faculty and facilities and the campus is also prettier and generally life a bit better there…though IBA grads are more street smart and a bit sharper than LUMS grads and can take higher levels of stress…that just my personal opinion…
Both my parents are Professors back home and both my brothers and all my close friends n cousins have done their undergrad in Pakistan so I have had some close exposure to the Pakistani educational institutions at the college level and imho unfortunately if one looks purely at the academics they are nowhere near the good North American colleges, ie if you look at it from the Western educationalist’s point of view.
The facilities, the educational system, quality of students [in terms of academic knowledge, but not in terms of talent or intelligence ofcourse], the qualification of the Professors everything is much better here in the US/Canada unfortunately LUMS specially has some great faculty but still it does not hold a candle to the kind of faculty you have in good american or canadian colleges.
As for the requirements, you can check the websites:
www.lums.edu.pk
www.iba.edu.pk
As for specialisation in business, u dont have to decide that when u r entering undergrad, u choose that well into ur undergrad, and based on ur interests or work experience etc u can decide that then…
I’m finishing up undergrad from the US this spring inshallah and I was thinking about doing my masters eithers in IBA or LUMS. I know some ppl who did that. I don’t think I’ll do it after considering the pros and cons. But then again my situation is different from yours. You said in your other post that you plan on coming back to US/Canada for masters…you think you are probably going to settle abroad? That changes the picture. I’m going to settle in Pakistan so for me a foreign degree is going to make a huge difference. People who live in Pakistan usually don’t give up the opportunity to come abroad and study. A foreign degree really makes a huge differrence and almost always guarantees better jobs, so I think I’ll prolly get a masters from abroad. Though I might change my mind, I’m not sure. Going to college in Pakistan really prepares you in being street smart to deal with the job market and work environment in Pakistan. There are many advantages to going to college in Pakistan though, like its not so much of a struggle, you can take it easy, live near your family, dont have to work yourself off like ppl have to here in undergrad etc etc. Many many advantages, so figure out what your priorities are and then decide.
As for success stories, sure Pakistan is filled with IBA/ LUMS grads doing really great for themselves mashallah, they are in top executive positions of the multinationals. Ofcourse you can’t compare it to someone who got a degree from the top American business schools who works in the US but at the local level of working and living in Pakistan they are doing well. The two worlds are entirely different. I have yet to meet someone who had purely Pakistani schooling who is at the top of their field internationally. But then again maybe I just don’t know of such ppl and they do exist. Both of my best friends in Pakistan just graduated from IBA, one with an MIS and another with an MBA. One of them already got a job with Citibank Karachi and is doing quite well mashallah, another is looking for jobs still. So if you look at it from within that level, you can do quite well in Pakistan with these degrees.
Other than that, and this is just what my friends tell me, I have no personal experience in this, that in Pakistan if you want to land with good jobs, you really have to have some connections. There are some who dont and still manage to, but they r hecka street smart and devoted.
As for internships, if you are doing well in IBA or LUMS you can get good internships in the local multinational companies for the summers quite easily I think. In fact if you do your internship abroad thats a bigger bonus, I have heard that the best ppl in IBA and LUMS try to get intersnips abroad in London mostly in the summers. So you can prolly come back to Canada and visit your family there and intern there.
For grad school, I have seen some ppl from LUMS at the very best unis/ programs in the US for their masters, so if you are like in the top 5-10% of ur class at LUMS, and have good GRE/ GMAT etc scores, good work experience even from pakistan u stand a very solid chance of getting into the best schools for your masters in US/Can…
At the end of the day though, I really really feel like where you get your degree from is definitely a big help but your ‘success’ however you wanna define it depends on your personal motivation, attitude etc…And your being happy in life does not have much to do with how high ranking and well paid you are professionally…I think this is just a very small part of the big picture of life…
My personal advice is, since you have grown up here, and plan on coming back here anyway for masters, you should go for undergrad in LUMS, it should be an enriching, unique and fun experience for u in life I think and will add a lot to your personal growth and outlook in life…thats just my opinion tho which is ofcourse subjective coz of my own experiences in life…
Hmmm…so I’ll end my babbling here Sarah :biggrin: i am no authority on this stuff and dont know all that much anyway but hope this helps…if you have more questions you can pm me, I can even ask around for you…
Good luck I’m kinda going thru this weird phase myself getting all these ideas abt all these different things I can do next in life…and I can’t really decide either…anyways, I’m sure whatever you do in the end will be the best as Allah willed for u..:k:
My family is moving to the middle east and encouraging me to go to school somewhere near them. I'm a second year psychology student but psychology has very little scope in Pakistan. Out of possible careers like computers, finance / business, engineering, the only thing that appeals to me is business. I haven't taken any math courses in years so am looking for something that can incorporate what I've learned so far as a humanities / social sciences student. I don't know anything about Business either.
Right now it's all up in the air but I have to make a decision before July and am totally clueless. Would appreciate greatly any input.
DO you HAVE to move with them? I would recommend not going to the middle-east to study unless you are in Israel. If you are serious about India then you would have to look at tier-1 schools, but admission is merit based and it is extremely competitive. You should look towards the US, remember your long term plans are also to be taken into account.
irem has explained in greater detail…i would try to touch upon facets that she may not have covered.
LUMS (Lahore) and IBA (Karachi) decidedly are the two better business schools in Pakistan. Both enjoy great success in terms of acceptance in the local job market, which comprises of local and multinational manufacturing firms, financial institutions and service organizations. Strong and well-entrenced alumni is definately an added plus for IBA over LUMS (IBA started its programs in 1955 or so, LUMS is about a decade old).
The differences between the two schools is pretty well summed up by irem (i can appreciate that being a product of IBA myself).
Student life is GOOD-indeed. :k: Admission criteria are definately not a breeze..what with the initial screening test, followed by interviews, group discussions and the final written test.
IBA offers a host of programs-the primemost being BBA (Hons.) and MBA from its university campus. Others being MIS, Executive and the Evening program (for professionals working in the field).
LUMS to my knowledge offers B.Sc. in Economics and no MBA. Those guys are good too! :o
Talking about global acceptance, to as someone said it all depends upon personal brilliance and motivation of course. We have graduates working in CSFB Hongkong and JPMorgan Toronto as well.
Browse around both the websites of IBA and LUMS and feel free to ask any questions you may have.
Let me get this straight, there is an undergrad bachelor's degree offered in business? Will I have to start my undergrad all over again considering I've already finished two years of it?
Khanzada, what kinds of courses did you take in IBA? What is the work load like? Is there an area of business you can suggest for me that I can take considering my previous education in psychology? I am looking for something less analytical and less mathematical.
I have not taken my SAT's. How necessary are they for admission? What GPA do these schools require?
Aside from grades, what other things are required for admission? Should I get references?
]Originally posted by Sarah Splendor: *
** me get this straight, there is an undergrad bachelor's degree offered in business? Will I have to start my undergrad all over again considering I've already finished two years of it? **
yup undergrad business degree, known as BBA
you will be able to transfer a number of your credit hours as a general concept but I dont know anyone who transferred to IBA. IBA usually likes for people to start together and graduate as a class, atleast thats the way it was a while back.
*Is there an area of business you can suggest for me that I can take considering my previous education in psychology? I am looking for something less analytical and less mathematical. *
You can always go for marketing or Human resource mgmt, psychology will work well with both, although marketing can also be pretty analytical contrary to popular belief. Maybe focus in advertising, If i recall right you have an interest in creative areas so it can be a good match.
I do knwo ppl who actually did their undergrads in philosophy or sociology and did very well in their MBA in finance, ops mgmt etc, its justa question of interest and aptitude.
**
I have not taken my SAT's. How necessary are they for admission? What GPA do these schools require?
Aside from grades, what other things are required for admission? Should I get references? **
Khanzada explained the admission process for a pakistani student, for foriegn students the process and criteria may be different, I am nto sure if it is teh case with IBA but it is with Aga Khan Med school.
references are good, SAT may help, the basic standard admin process requires a very competitive admissions test, but to be honest its not that tough, its just like SAT, but easier. The people who pass have to go through interviews, just like many universities require in US and then there is a group discussion format where they see how you interact and communicate in group situations. pretty basic stuff, u can read a few things on behavioral interviewing and pass it no problem.
I guess your family wants you to be close, depending on where they are in middle east you can attend school there too.
One of my good pals went to school in Turkey and had a blast, i forget the unis name but it is known as a premier uni in Turkey..that may work for you too.
Sarah, I am a finance majors. I am a BBA (Hons.)/MBA grad. Actually we took 36 courses in my honors ( 3 years) and 12 in my MBA. (1 year). In all, a total of 8 elective courses decide our majors. I am a 6-2 in favor of finance.
I suggest if you don’t have a way with numbers, you may try marketing. (btw, you still would have to complete some necessary finance courses..nothing doing :o)…your psycology will come in good with yer compulsory courses like Human Behavior and Organizational Behavior (what with all the Frued bhai theories and all…aur Pavlov’s dogs experiments ) Work load kaafi hota hai yar…and i mean kaafi. semester ke doran it varies. A semester spans a total of 4.5 months. With hourlies every month, quizzes by the week or so and term reports, it sure is demanding and goes without saying requires commitment.
I already suggested ‘marketing’ to you. It decidedly is less mathematical…more to do with the art of brand management as such…pretty interesting if you ask me…unfortunately, i was never the material.
SAT i don’t really think is necessary at all. Bacholors..i am not sure but if common sense prevails, i believe you gotta do it over again to have the full flavor..warna to you can opt for a standalone MBA (2 years..it accepts those with a bachelors in commerce) provided they accept your bachelors…ho sakta hai partial credits accept bhi kar liye jaein..you better mail and ask them.
Academic requirements at the entry level are not too stringent…am not too sure about As..but 60% in Intermediate is eligible to apply…coz greater emphasis is put on IBA’s test and interviews and blah blah!
What other things…hmm, IBA’s own test..which is no rocket science..pretty common sensical…one ahem maths section, one english section and the third is for General Knowledge and IQ. (LUMS one is pretty similar too…with the exception and addition of a few other sections). It’s NOT academic lemme tell you…it’s an aptitude test after
all. Kher..woh pata chal jaega.
Bas..thora se confidence…achi angrezi (mujh ko aati nahin thi..un ko phir bhi bewakoof bana gaya!) aur thori se luck. You are all set to go!
word of caution though, marketing can involve tons of quantitative analysis. the whole aspect of market research or market portfolio management etc has tons of statistics involved. Brand management will tie in directly with a portfolio, and that will require some quantitative analysis as well as modelling.
essentially there is no escape from math..even in advertising. but please dont go into an area like marketing management, or product management thinking its all creative work and no quantitative analysis.
Sarah
I think everyone above has made very good points. If you have to move, do you know where and would you be able to move to Pakistan or only where your parents are at?
Here are the options as I see them:
Stay here
Go to MidEast (anywhere)
Go to MidEast whereever parents are
Go to Pakistan
and then there are two options after that
I) Work in Pakistan/Mid East after undergad
II) Work in the west
I will try and answer each of these one by one.
First the work options cause they define what you should study to a certain extent:
I) Working in Pak means generally you would have to have a conventional degree (something people know and can relate to). In this case business is great and with your background you can aim for a couple of things:
HR/Organizational Behaviour - dont know how many companies in Pak have decent HR people though and if there is any progression in their careers. This is the closest to sociology
Marketing - lots of creativity but also some quant stuff. Needs to be a social personality generally and have a good understanding of the customers, products etc
Finance - heavy quant stuff. no sociology.
Consulting- depends on the type but heavy on the maths.
enterprenour- if you are interested in your own business then this is the
place to be. lots of creativity required but it tends to be generic
general Management - just what it says… a bit of everything. great if you have an undergrad in some field, with some work experience and just want to gain some business insight. Also good for people who are unsure cause its the “jack of all trades” kinda thing.
No matter what you do in a BBA you still need at least some stats and maths background. The following web site may be helpful to you as well if you were looking at the masters level sometime in the future. However the courses tend to be similar.
You want to work here: Then you can do pretty much any area and get a decent job. if nothing else then as an instructor somewhere.
Ok now to the colleges options:
The best case option, if you can live it out alone by yourself, to stay where are you at these days (trust me it may seem like a relief from family living alone, but it is after its gone that we know what we are missing). You can study anything you want depending on what your answer was to the first two options. If you can not stay in Canada, try the US. Look for something in a decent sized town so that there will some diversity. Also look at schools other then just the top tier colleges. you may still get a great education and not have to pay a lot.
Also think about if your parents would let you go to school in europe say England or germany etc. there are also some great schools in Southern Africa though it is really hard to to live alone out there (Catwoman should be your contact).
mideast anywhere (I am guessing other then Isreal). I think theres a decent business school in Dubai and perhaps in Turkey. Dont have a lot of information about this. Maddy/lastknight may know more about this.
not much choice here so just go to where the folks go. Get a decent education by motivating yourself and ensuring that you build a good work ethic. Also try and work during the summers. it may be hard but it makes a great deal of difference when you are looking for work after school.
pakistan. Irem and Khanzada had great writeups on this. You should talk to these people. Get into one of the better schools if you can and also make sure you work through out the summers. Building a good work ethic is best thing you can do while in college.
hope all that helps. let me know if you need any other information.
hmcq
Sarah, please please don’t study because of "anticipated future work opportunities" or because your parents want you to. You will never be happy with yourself if you did that (you are a sad case to begin with). Studying psychology is a lot more interesting than studying business. Business is perhaps not as boring as thermonuclear physics or molecular biology, but it surely is up there in terms of boringness.
If your parents are moving to mideast and you want to go to school near them. Consider going to the American University in Cairo or AU Beirut. They are excellent places. You can combine Psychology and Egyptology for your Undergrad. That will be one hell of a combo.
Good luck. If you need a reference, dont be shy to ask me.
I agree with Ahmedi saab…as much as I know you i.e half a dozen posts and two hot pics I think u r not suited for business or any other crap that involves maths, science, or similar impress-others-with-what-i-know-stuff.
You are made to write, analyze and rationalize. I see you as a journalist or a lawyer..but more as a journalist who would make any political leader pee in his pants by her vigor, charm, blunt attitude and gorgeous looks. You go girl ask 'em why IT is the way it is. I see it in you..Don’t take up stuff which you have no clue about…Go with your strengths and you will succeed.
NYA and Boss are right. You should go with something that you like or enjoy cause you are more likely to do well there. However there is a balance between the doing basket weaving and earning enough money to be self sufficient. I would suggest you go with something thats along your strenghts, you like to do and you will find the right job as long as its not basket weaving :).
To get into Lums, you will need to take both the SAT1 and SAT2 (two subjects). Lums is a great place, and you will enjoy it, despite what chaltahaihai and nyahmedi are saying... Trust me on this. 90% of my graduating Alevels class in in Lums, and I visited them and trust me, they are doing pretty good, and most of them are about to graduate now, and alot of them are already getting enrolled in excellent graduate schools in the US, UK, Pakistan etc...
LUMS specially has some great faculty but still it does not hold a candle to the kind of faculty you have in good american or canadian colleges.
) Work load kaafi hota hai yar…and i mean kaafi. semester ke doran it varies. A semester spans a total of 4.5 months. With hourlies every month, quizzes by the week or so and term reports, it sure is demanding and goes without saying requires commitment.