Bush and his eavesdropping...

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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**Bush defends phone-tapping policy **

US President George W Bush has again defended his decision to allow eavesdropping on Americans in the wake of the 2001 terror attacks.

Speaking at a press conference, Mr Bush also repeated that he would continue to authorise the secret monitoring.

He also urged Congress to renew the Patriot Act, the top US anti-terror law, saying it provided officials with the tools to protect Americans.

“We cannot afford to be without this law for a single moment,” he said.

It was not in the best interests of the country for people to “play politics” with the Patriot Act, he said, while answering reporters’ questions.

The legislation has cleared the House of Representatives, but the Senate has rejected an attempt to reauthorize several sections of the bill. The legislation is due to expire at the end of the month.

‘Helping the enemy’

Mr Bush also said he expected a “full investigation” into who leaked information about the wiretap programme.
“My personal opinion is it was a shameful act for someone to disclose this very important programme in a time of war,” he said.

The fact that we’re discussing this programme is helping the enemy," he added.

The New York Times reported last Friday that Mr Bush had signed a secret presidential order following the 11 September 2001 attacks, allowing the National Security Agency to track the international telephone calls and e-mails of hundreds of people without referral to the courts.

Previously, surveillance on American soil was generally limited to foreign embassies.

Mr Bush emphasised that only international calls were monitored without a court order - those originating in the US, or those placed from overseas to individuals living in the US.

He reminded reporters that calls placed and received within the US could be monitored under orders granted by a secret court under the provisions of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act.

The president, struggling with low approval ratings and public discontent with the US death toll in Iraq, also defended his decision to invade the country, saying “it wasn’t a mistake” and that “history will judge”. On Sunday, in his fifth speech on Iraq in the past few weeks, Mr Bush appealed to Americans not to give in to despair over the war.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4542880.stm

Another link on the issue
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,1670909,00.html

tsk tsk tsk. where are we heading eh…dare i mention p-o-l-i-c-e-s-t-a-t-e? :rolleyes:

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Re: Bush and his eavesdropping...

you're crazy or stupid if you think that the British Secret Service ISN"T doing the same exact thing in the UK right now.

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Re: Bush and his eavesdropping...

Its amazing that senate approved this at least 12 times and now the talking heads want to pin it all on GW

where are all the flooders today? :(
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Re: Bush and his eavesdropping…

Kaleem here is the problem, Bush says one thing and does another.
You either tell the truth to the public or you don’t say anthing.

The quote by Bush below shows us Bush lied to the public.
…

"Secondly, there are such things as roving wiretaps. Now, by the way, any time you hear the United States government talking about wiretap, it requires – a wiretap requires a court order. Nothing has changed, by the way. When we’re talking about chasing down terrorists, we’re talking about getting a court order before we do so. It’s important for our fellow citizens to understand, when you think Patriot Act, constitutional guarantees are in place when it comes to doing what is necessary to protect our homeland, because we value the Constitution. " G.W. Bush April 20th, 2004

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/04/20040420-2.html

Miss Pakistan-World!
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Re: Bush and his eavesdropping...

So let's see. We can wire tap foreign people whenever we want, who want to blow us up.

But we cant wire tap the same people when they are talking to Americans about blowing us up.

Does it strike anyone that the "War" on terror was always used, not as a catch phrase, but as an actual war?

I am completely unbothered by this.

You can tap my phone anytime. You can learn about what I ate today, what colleges my kid has applied to, and what I think of Hillary Clinton. The biggest threat I pose is that the wiretapper may become so sleepy that he falls out of his chair and hurts himself.

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Re: Bush and his eavesdropping…

that’s the problem.. if you allow this incompetence to go on, all you’d get is a huge database of who ate what and there’s no credible intelligence left..

There has been to date NO evidence that all this snooping and torture and whatever else is being employed in this ‘War’ is actually working.. We’re still told to be ‘very afraid’, there are still billions spent on military and intelligence and placating enemies, and there’s still an entire atmosphere of uncertainty, fear and loss of liberties.

We possibly couldn’t be worse off if we halved the military budget, stopped funding intelligence agencies and dictatorships around the world, stopped snooping around ordinary US citizens business and didn’t torture prisoners of war.

Welcome my childhood buddy :D
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Re: Bush and his eavesdropping...

OG, there needs to be a legal check and balance so abuse doesn't occur without such the potential for abuse is extremely high. And if you're going to do it without the legal check anyways then you best not get fk'ing caught or they'll be political as well as legal consequences.

Zara Phir Say Kehna...........
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Re: Bush and his eavesdropping...

what r u white devils worried about? this tapping is only for the camel-humping moslem terrorists..

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Re: Bush and his eavesdropping…

who’s worried?

btw, I think the camel-humpers stay closer to home. Not many camels in these parts. We’re more worried about the ones who get their rocks off by killing americans.

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Re: Bush and his eavesdropping...

exactly Stu, all these moslems are bent upon killing americans..i wish we could just send them to the internment camps like the japs...

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Re: Bush and his eavesdropping…

Everytime you post, you remove all doubts about your idiocy.

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Re: Bush and his eavesdropping…

Yeah, frikkin’ Bush:

CLINTON ADMINISTRATION SECRET SEARCH ON AMERICANS – WITHOUT COURT ORDER

**CARTER EXECUTIVE ORDER: ‘ELECTRONIC SURVEILLANCE’ WITHOUT COURT ORDER **

Bill Clinton Signed Executive Order that allowed Attorney General to do searches without court approval

Clinton, February 9, 1995: “The Attorney General is authorized to approve physical searches, without a court order”

Jimmy Carter Signed Executive Order on May 23, 1979: “Attorney General is authorized to approve electronic surveillance to acquire foreign intelligence information without a court order.”

WASH POST, July 15, 1994: Extend not only to searches of the homes of U.S. citizens but also – in the delicate words of a Justice Department official – to “places where you wouldn’t find or would be unlikely to find information involving a U.S. citizen… would allow the government to use classified electronic surveillance techniques, such as infrared sensors to observe people inside their homes, without a court order.”

Deputy Attorney General Jamie S. Gorelick, the Clinton administration believes the president “has inherent authority to conduct warrantless searches for foreign intelligence purposes.”

Secret searches and wiretaps of Aldrich Ames’s office and home in June and October 1993, both without a federal warrant.
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash8.htm

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Re: Bush and his eavesdropping…

Ohio Guy Bhai:clap:

On this particular issue, I will stand behind my President 100%, if I am not doing anything objectionable why do I have to worry, and to all my Fellow South East Asians, which includes, Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis, Sri Lankans, Nepalese etc etc, if you folks, even for one moment think that our respective local and state and central Governments are not doing the same, well you need to wake up from that dream and smell the coffee.

Only difference is that over here it will be used for determining the safety of the country, whereas god forbid back home if they find a black spot in your life, damn you will be Black Mailed for life.

Another point, not everyone’s phone is going to be tapped, coz even with the resources the USA has, that would NEVER be Logistically possible, its going to be random, and selective only in known terrorist sleeper cells.

Why is that so bad???

Aejaz

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Re: Bush and his eavesdropping...

^
Americans are not above abusing the system. We have all seen that.

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Re: Bush and his eavesdropping...

anyone remember Nixon?

Acha Nahi Lagta
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Re: Bush and his eavesdropping…

Agree with you UnderThe Dome Bhai,

But Honestly you think the abuse is as rampant as our Countries back home, atleast here they can be questioned, issues can be raised, can even sue the Government, what is the Option a Black mail victim has back home.

A Case at hand is the MP’s and MLA’s of India Caught on Video taking bribes, have you heard their Interviews, inspite of being on Video they are DENYING it and blaming the opposition for framing them, eventually it will just be brushed under the Carpet.

Big Difference.

Aejaz

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Re: Bush and his eavesdropping...

[QUOTE]
Everytime you post, you remove all doubts about your idiocy.
[/QUOTE]
Here comes my puppy dog, I missed you my doggy...where have you been.

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Re: Bush and his eavesdropping…

It’s quite scary how far we have come. OhioGuy is willing to give up his privacy rights in his own home to a government that goes and breaks the law in order to spy on its own citizens without legal checks and balances. Are we in America?

OG, the Drudge, come on? Clinton/Carter orders were **followed **in accordance with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act, Bush did not, he broke the fk’in law. Of course Drudge doesn’t mention any of this, what a surprise.

Why did Bush go around the FISA?

Even if we don’t get the answer to that Bush has broken the law, one that violates one of the most important rights Americans hold true and dear to their hearts and quite certainly an Impeachable offense.

…
One of the 11 memebers of the FISA court has resigned in protest of Bush’s actions.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/12/20/AR2005122000685.html
…

And Aejaz, I hold America to a much higher standard than other states.

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Re: Bush and his eavesdropping...

Land of the NoT so Free :whistling

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Re: Bush and his eavesdropping…

UnderTheDome Bhai,

Thats precisely the reason I agreed with you in my previous post, yes I do hold America to a much higher standard, and when America has made blunders I have voiced my disagreement and displeasure quite openly.

But this is a issue of national security, Let me ask you, would it not be better if we could atleast try to avoid another 9/11.

Coming back to the issue of higher standards, what in my opinion raises the standard of any country or person or establishment, is accountability, which I agree sometimes in America comes after the dirty deed has been done, but the point is that the culprits are still accountable and are tried and accordingly brought to justice.

Back home on the other hand, apart from the MP’s and MLA’s examples, there are tons of other issues, For example I read in another thread the Son of a Pakistani Minister slapped 3 individuals in open public in 2 days, what happened to him, somebody mentioned a lavish party being organised for another Pakistani Ministers son, inspite of it being prohibited.

UnderTheDome Bhai, you just have to look closely and the vast differences will glare you in the face.

To end this ranting of mine, I again agree that America does have its shortcomings, but than you are an educated and intelligent individual, and I am sure I dont have to remind you, it takes all kind to run this world. The good the Bad and the Ugly.

Aejaz