Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

all this long para prove onething. Sikh guru didn’t compelled any Muslim or Hindu to convert. Read the lines:

After they accepted Sikhi with their will, whats the point of following Hindu or Muslim rituals?

Bulleh Shah’s line about Guru Gobind’s Sunnat is open to interpretation. When Muslim sufis were free to preach, when rulers like Autangzeb were free to impose religion, then why we raise fingers, if Sikh guru took some oaths from his followers. We should remember that Guru Gobind was not the first guru. He was tenth guru and foundation of Khalsa was a retaliation to what happened to earlier gurus.

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

This is strange as Purdah is done even in Sikh and Hindu Punjabis. The women still do purdah from their father and brothers in law.

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

In Bulleh Shah's time we had one Aurangzaeb who was quite cruel with non muslims and this Guru Gobind Singh who might not be ideal himself (but was preaching equality). It seems that Bullah Shah would have supported his call for equality. If you support a particular stance of some one does not mean that you believe in everything that he says. Is there any particular instance of Bulleh Shah in his poetry condemning Burqa or Hajj??

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

Thats what I'm saying. For Indians, Purdha is not religious concept. In Pre-Islam, Nomad Arab society have different concept of purdah, whereas Agricultural / settled area of India had different concept of purdah, which is being followed todate. It may have got influence from Turks, Persian and their concept of purdah is BTW not same as Arabia.

Anyway, a total different discussion this is.

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

Another thing is that how come his poetry has become blasphemous after Zia's government? Was it not blasphemous during the past couple of hundred years? Till recently his poems were recited in the villages. I dont know if his poetry is blasphemous or not, one thing is for sure we are becoming more and more hardline with the passage of time.

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

I can bring instances from Bulleh Shah's poetry, which if read in isolation (like reading part of a kafi and leaving other), will prove Bulleh Shah blasphemous. But I've to still see his poetry, which promotes message against basic foundation of Islam.

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

If we read this kaafi:

masjid dha day

mandir dha day

dha day jo kuch dhenda

per kissi da dil na dhavin

Rab dillan which rehnda

It seems as if he is advocating bringing down mosques and temples. But if you see it from another angle, he is telling those who have the authority to break these places of worship to break what ever they want but not break the hearts of others. Haqooq ul ibad? The basic message of the sufis was love, humanity and equality. And this was the reason why many people converted to Islam during the past 1000 odd years in this region.

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

great thread guys

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

But many people only quote:

masjid dha day

mandir dha day

dha day jo kuch dhenda

Just to prove blasphemy of the poet. You won't believe, some people also tag ' Bullah ki jana main kon' with blasphemy

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

^ Bulleh Shah can be called rebellious at the most. Bulleya Ki jaana main koun, seems more of the quest to discover himself. He is acknowledging that he is not a staunch muslim and on the other side he doesnt believe in Kafiraana ideologies too. He is not willing to put over a cloak of religiosity over himself. It seems as if he considered that on both sides of the religion people take absolutist stance, thats why he is trying to rise from that and be acceptable to all. His Kafis are included in Sikh Book Garanth Sahib.

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

Are you sure of this?

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

^ I this its baba Farid.

Guru Granth Sahib | SikhismGuide

The Granth Sahib contains 937 hymns of 36 Hindu saints, Muslim sufis and bards. The hymns of the these holy men cover a period of six centuries (from the 12th to the 17th century). Regardless of the author, this gurbani has an equal status as the hymns of the Gurus.
[TABLE=“align: center”]

Kabir
Muslim weaver
292 hymns

Namdev
Calico printer from Maharashtra
60

Ravi Das
Shoe maker from Uttar Pradesh
41

Trilochan
Brahmin from Maharashtra
4

Dhanna
Cultivator from Rajasthan
4

Sain
Barber from Uttar Pradesh
1

Jaidev
Poet from Bengal
2

Pipa
King from Uttar Pradesh
1

Sur Das
Blind poet
2

Baba Farid
Muslim saint from Punjab
134

Parmanand
Maharashtra
1

Sadhna
Butcher from Sindh
1

Beni

3

Ramanand
Uttar Pradesh
1

Bhikhan
Sufi saint from Uttar Pradesh
2

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

Kabir (Kabir Das) was Muslim?

426 hyms from Muslims

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

It seems he was a muslim weaver, but I am not aware of his later years.

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

http://www.sikhiwiki.org/index.php/Bhagat_Kabir

Bhagat Kabir (Gurmukhi: ਭਗਤ ਕਬੀਰ) (1441-1518)* was a Devotee, Saint and Gurmukh born in Uttar Pardesh, India. He was a monotheist and follower, probably founder, of Gurmat. He was a Muslim. There are 227 Padas in 17 ragas and 237 slokas of Kabir in Guru Granth Sahib. He is revered by Hindus, Muslims and Sikhs, some Sikhs even use the word Guru in reference to Kabir. Like other Devotees, Kabir did not believe in Ritualism, the worshiping of Dieties, Brahmanism or the Caste System. Kabir played the role of a teacher and social reformer by the medium of his writings. Bhagat Kabir guided Gurmat to Ramanand, whom he adopted as worldly guru. The Kabirpanthi sect which follow the teachings of Kabir, referring to him as their guru.
Sikhs also follow the teaching of Kabir, as in Gurmat, Kabir, Nanak, Ravidas, Bhatts all are same and all are treated as Guru and Sikhs bow before Guru Granth Sahib which include the teaching of many who had similar thoughts about God.

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

Sikhism seems to have a big influence from the Sufis from that time. As it came into being after the arrival of muslims.

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

Sikhi was a reformation in existing beliefs and not a separate ideology, but with the passage of time and resistance it faced, it got distinct identity.

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

The same is said for Hinduism as well. According to hindus, life is divided into 4 aspects. The first as a student where is primary duty is education, the second is householder where his focus is family life. After his children are grown and settled begins his 3rd and 4th phase that is withdrawl from materialistic and worldly life and focus towards the spiritual life. But care must be taken that all 4 phases are lived in a righteous manner. I don't think any religion says that piligrimage is the fist focus even before feeding family/ educating kids and and supporting aged parents.

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

I think poets like Bulleh Shah pose danger to those who possess fragile faiths with tags 'handle with carefully'. For those who got broader perspective of religion, such things either doesn't matter or they can dig out new meanings for betterment of overall humanity irrespective of any creed / faith.

Re: Bulleh Shah and Punjab University

how can you prove that all of them were sikh and all the people accepted Sikhi willingly?
these are assumptions that there were no muslims and all of them were Sikh.