Brothers kissing their sisters on cheeks, or anywhere.

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Asalam O Alekum.

Well my religion knowledge is really limited. I know I need to enhance it, but right now there is a query which is actually upsetting me and I wish people here, who are more knowledgeable to please help me with the answer.

In how much length is the physical touch/ contact between the mehram relations is allowed in Islam?

I have seen fathers, grand fathers, brothers, maternal and paternal uncles kissing the forehead of their mehrams’ forhead or head. But kissing somewhere else like face, hands or feet, is it also alright and allowed in Islam? And here Im not referring to cuddling our young sisters and brothers we do out of love in the age of infancy, childhood or even early teens. How to cuddle/ kiss your sister when you are as old and mature as 29-30 having grown mustaches and your sister be over the teenage about 3/4 years too.

Well I believe its the age you reach the peak of your physical maturity. Im not God forbid suspecting the intentions of the said sibling but just seeing it, if it feels bad, am I thinking bad? I hope you people will not bash me here for my dirty thinking. I just need to have a correct idea of it. So that if such things occur in front of me next time, I do not feel bad.

I hope my query will be considered in a positive humor and I will be duly helped.

Thank you.

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Re: Brothers kissing their sisters on cheeks, or anywhere.

Peace Mirage,

will reply soon :insh:

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Re: Brothers kissing their sisters on cheeks, or anywhere.

Peace sister mirage

It is actually quite a straight-forward answer but it's one that may not be too obvious ... it is because we often think that mahram are those people in front of whom we don't do purdah ... therefore like with the husband or wife we can do other things with mahrams ...

This is not the case ... in Islam the spouse has a special status it is not the same as "mahram" - Mahram by definition is one with whom marriage would be illegal or haram. That means father, son, daughter, brother, sister, etc are in that category. Husband could not be since he is married. The conjugal relations between a married couple are explicitly allowed between them only.

Consider would it be halal or permissible to kiss a non-mahram on the cheek or hands and feet? No ... it is because they are violating the sanctuary of what is permissible only in marriage ... therefore if that is done with a mahram it is worse because those people can't even be married to ...

... If an unrelated couple commit zina and have a child there is always an option for them to get married ... if this happened between brother and sister they could never get married yet to have child between them would be even worse than zina.

There is a hadith about 'riba' usury - and it talks about how the lowest form of usury is to marry ones own mother - it is an illegal contract - just like usury is an illegal contract.

It should be natural that a brother moves away from his mahrams - or a man keeps his distance from his daughters ... those who don't either are seriously tormented by shaitan OR moving dangerously close to it if their intentions are pure. Conduct with anybody needs to be specific and any act that can arouse sexual feelings should be avoided in non-mahram and even moreso in mahrams.

With the spouse there is a difference for obvious reasons. The wisdom that we take about why purdah is not required between mahrams is because of practical reasons and because their natural states will not move them sexually ... only if they really twisted will this present a problem yet the Qur'an will usually address the vast majority normal situation.

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Re: Brothers kissing their sisters on cheeks, or anywhere.

it is better to avoid

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Re: Brothers kissing their sisters on cheeks, or anywhere.

wow. i suppose ISNA brother-sisterhood kiss rules would be even stricter.

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Re: Brothers kissing their sisters on cheeks, or anywhere.

thankyou very very much. im much helped but wished if you could please provide proper Ahadees or authentic references in this regard. when we turn to the religion as resort there should be references given too so that we can take it as a final word.

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Re: Brothers kissing their sisters on cheeks, or anywhere.

close your eyes? :blush:

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Re: Brothers kissing their sisters on cheeks, or anywhere.

looking forward towards LKK brother's response.

its not like collecting or asking for fatwa. just that people with more taqwa and better religious values and understanding can help laymen like us better.

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Re: Brothers kissing their sisters on cheeks, or anywhere.

My advice, don't fall in traps of fatwa baaz mullas or you will be turning like turnip.

Islam is based upon the concept of brotherhood and brotherhood is based upon the concept of goodwill towards others.

In human relationships some relations are set upon more rights and responsibilities than others.

Husband and wife are said to be covering for each other to the exclusion of all others. This in quranic terms is a special relationship based upon marriage contract.

All other relationsships are divided into mahram and non mahram. Then again their rights and responsibilities are set accordingly. Nonmahrams do not have those rights as the people in closer ties.

So long as people behave towards each other decently within their defined spheres no problems arise in an islamic setting. However things are not that straightforward when there is no islamic setting. In such settings you do whatever you can to make things islamic but you must always expect that results will not be islamic because when the whole set up is anti islamic then you can only patch up things here there everywhere but not get the result you think you should get.

To have islamic results the setting has to be islamic. Something that most people do not realise.

In an oppressive society things are altered from their natural position eg in a sexually oppressed society people will be starved of sex so what they cannot get they will work harder for that to get it any way they can because sexual motivation is a natural drive that cannot be done away with. So rape is inevitable for example and no matter what laws cannot prevent rapes. Thus people who cannot find what they need legally and in natural flow of thing will get it otherwise.

This is why when people have too much freedom in destructive things they get fed up doing them eg where there is far too much sexual freedom one will see that society will break up because all this can lead to many problems due to disorganised way of doing things.

So people need to find a happy medium so that they do not end up at either extreme.

Laws and their applications are two different things. Law are decided by Allah in islam as an example upon which people can form their own laws as their situations and circumstances demand and so they can apply them to serve the set out purposes in their various situations and circumstances.

Now when a situation or circumstance is right for a law to serve a purpose depends on people not God. For example, Allah forbids eating swine flesh in normal situations under normal circumstances for serving the purpose of food. However one is allowed to eat it if this is only thing there for one to survive. Exactly when one should eat is on person who is in this situation or under this set of circumstances.

Likewise how much one should get closer to mahrams is dependent on peoples' own individual situations and circumstances and for that people themselves are responsible to judge. The idea is don't take it to wife and husband side of things then you are ok but how do you know this is not going to happen and thing will not take you to that end? So better keep safe than sorry. Adults need to behave like adults not children.

In the quran we are told story of Moses and the girl who comes to get him after her father tells her when moses runs away from egypt after a fight when an egyptian is killed. It shows that girls can work and get out of house and meet alone with nonmahrams but in an appropriate way.

The quran also tells us that men can approach women seeking marirage with them not sexual friendship without marriage.

So long as relationships are based upon goodwill, truth and honesty for the good of others that is fine. When people deviate and seek to twist things from what they are supposed to be then obviously things go wrong and that is why islam does not allow them because overall they have harmful effect on society as a whole.

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Re: Brothers kissing their sisters on cheeks, or anywhere.

At the same time it is not advisable to judge the intentions of the behaviour of other people … they may do something which is doubtful … and we are advised to avoid doubtful areas, but we can’t paint all people with a single brush.

It may be that kissing on the cheek is absolutely normal for them albeit totally wierd for the onlookers …

You see there are caveats to my post above as well …

In short there is a fine line between “affection” and “sexual desire” … showing affection is mercy … and there are plenty of hadith to show the kissing of mahrams … on the other hand there is sexual desire and if this becomes prevalent then it is the person’s own responsibility to recoil from that situation.

The hadith below justifies treating children differently as they get older …

As far as educating children, I mention the famous statement attributed to ‘Umar ibn Al-Khattab – may Allah be pleased with him, “Play with them for seven [years], teach them manners for seven [years], and let them enjoy your companionship for seven [years].”

The ayat below shows that it would be abnormal to allow a child near the breast after two years of age …

“And mothers shall nurse their children for two complete [lunar] years, for whomever desires to complete the nursing. And the father of the child shall have the duty of their provision and for clothing them according to reasonable standards” (2:233).

Usually a growing child becomes more aware of its own development and avoid affectionate contact … It becomes more important for a sibling to be honoured by the sibling than babied by them and at this stage it should naturally break away to a different type of relationship … on the other hand disabled relatives may remain mentally like children for many years and it is accepted amongst laymen that there would be no harm to treat them as such according to their level.

As long as our own intentions are clear and as long as we do not breach the areas of sexual entry - which are usually the areas that remain hidden in the satr/awra …

… Never leave people alone in private to whom you suspect to be dodgy … and quite honestly if you detect dodgy behaviour of that kind you will surely see dodgy behaviour in other facets of their life first and more prominently.

Sayyidina Ayesha RA said that a villager came to the Prophet

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and asked him, “Do you kiss young children? We do not kiss them.” The Prophet

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said, “What can i do about it? Allah swt has removed the essence of mercy from your heart.”

(Bukhari)

Sayyidina Abu Hurayrah RA said that the Messenger of Allah

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kissed Sayyidina Hasan bin Ali (his grandson). Aqra’bin Habis al-Tameemi who was sitting next to him said, “I have ten children and i have never kissed any of them.” The Prophet

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looked at him and said, “He who does not show mercy is not shown mercy.”

(Bukhari, Muslim,Abu dawood, Ahmad)

Look at those hadith … Kissing a child can be merciful … however in this day and age people are accused of peodophilia … in the past men were accused of being like women …

Sometimes it’s just the Shaitan trying to prevent us from showing mercy to one another by getting us to second guess one another … So it is a hard one …

I would say as long as he is not kissing her on her lips … you probably have no cause to be alarmed … however we should avoid this behaviour as it sends the wrong messages to the sibling and to the onlookers. You will see other signs on the person that will tell you for sure whether there is something amiss … Allahu’alim.

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Re: Brothers kissing their sisters on cheeks, or anywhere.

well, brother you really asked different question, but if we are kissing our mom, sister, grand mom on head, that mean that we have mehram relations with them, i thing it wont be bad??

but one of my brother says,, it cant be//

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Re: Brothers kissing their sisters on cheeks, or anywhere.

Peace Mirage,

Our deeds depends on our intentions and Allah SWT fully aware from our intentions. Shaitaan is our open enemy and if we can, we should avoid such behaviour.

In Surah Nur verses No. 31 the following classes are described for the need of modesty. The need for modesty is the same in both men and women. But on account of the differentiation of the sexes in nature, temperaments, and social life, a greater amount of privacy is required for women than for men, especially in the matter of dress and the uncovering of the bossom.

In this verses ‘Zinat’ means both natural beauty and artificial ornaments. The women is asked not to make a display to make of her figure excpet to the following classes of people:

  1. Her husband;
  2. Her near relatives who would be living in the same house, and with whom a certain amount of negligee is permissible;
  3. Her woman, i.e., her maid-servants, who would be constantly in attendance on her; some commentators include all believing women. It is not good form in a Muslim household for women to meet other women except when they are properly dressed.
  4. Slaves, male and female, asthey would be in constant attendance but this item would now be blank, with the abolition of slavery
  5. Old or infirm men servants; and
  6. Infants or small children before they get a sense of sex.

The verses No. 59 of Surah Al Ahzab is for all Muslim women, those of the Prophet’s household, as well as the others. The times were those of insecurity (mentioned in next verses) and they were asked to cover themselves with outer garments when walking aborad. It was never contemplated that they should be confined to their houses like prisoners.
**In Book ‘The Book on Government (Kitab Al-Imara)’ of Sahih Muslim hadith No. 4602 and 4603. **

  • It has been narrated on the authority of 'A’isha, the wife of the Holy Prophet :saw2:. She said: When the believing women migrated (to Medina) and came to the Messenger of Allah :saw2:, they would be tested in accordance with the following words of Allah. the Almighty and Exalted:" O Prophet, when believing women come to thee to take the oath of fealty to thee that they will not associate in worship anything with God, that they will not steal. that, they will not commit adultery…" to the end of the verse (Surah Al Mumtahanah 62). Whoso from the believing women accepted these conditions and agreed to abide by them were considered to have offered themselves for swearing fealty. When they had (formally) declared their resolve to do so, the Messenger of Allah :saw2: would say to them: You may go. I have confirmed your fealty. By God, the hand of the Messenger of Allah :saw2: never touched the hand of a woman. He would take the oath of fealty from them by oral declaration. By God, the Messenger of Allah :saw2: never took any vow from women except that which God had ordered him to take, and his palm never touched the palm of a woman. When he had taken their vow, he would tell them that he had taken the oath from them orally.

  • It has been narrated on the authority of 'Urwa that 'A’isha described to him the way the Holy Prophet :saw2: took the oath of fealty from women. She said: The Messenger of Allah :saw2: never touched a woman with his hand. He would only take a vow from her and when he had taken the (verbal) vow, he would say: You may go. I have accepted your fealty.

Our Prophet Muhammad :saw2: is the most pious person among all of us who have control on His :saw2: desires, If HE :saw2: never did such they why we should do that although we won’t gonna lose anything.

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Re: Brothers kissing their sisters on cheeks, or anywhere.

^ Peace lethal kamikaze

The taking of fealty verses was for non-mahram women ... although it understood that there is a divide between non-mahrams ... I think the OP wanted to know if there is a divide present between mahrams ... The answer is that there is - even though a woman may show here cleveage or some say be bare breasted before a mahram - she cannot be completely naked before him.

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Re: Brothers kissing their sisters on cheeks, or anywhere.

Peace psyah,

Agree with you. The theme is same. There are many hadiths regrding kissing of a child (before child get sense of sex) but I couldn't find any hadith in support of kissing a mahram on forehead or at hand etc., except spouses who allowed to do so with his/her wife/husband.

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Re: Brothers kissing their sisters on cheeks, or anywhere.

Is it that a woman can show her cleveage or bare breasts (like during breast feeding) before a mehram? I always thought it was odd. Like women breastfeeding their children in front of their fathers and adult brothers.... ?

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Re: Brothers kissing their sisters on cheeks, or anywhere.

Brother LKK, as Psyah said it too, my concern is such physical affection and love shown between ADULTS and not children. And kissing on the face. Kissing on hands or forehead makes sense as it is an expression of affection and reverence (so it looks like too, to the onlooker) but how about kissing on cheeks, (not on lips ofcourse)

As an onlooker, even if I know they are sibling, and I God forbid never doubt it be evil intentions or sexual desires. An adult brother kissing on adult sister's cheeks was what I found quite gross.

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Re: Brothers kissing their sisters on cheeks, or anywhere.

Peace mirage,

like I said in my previous post, I couldn't find any hadith in support of showing physical affection and love between adults (family members/blood relatives) either by kissing on forehead or on hands. We can show it by respecting more to our family members rather than physical affection, love and kissing on hands or forehead.

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Re: Brothers kissing their sisters on cheeks, or anywhere.

That is why I mentioned that ... it may be odd but it is not technically blameworthy ... the same goes for perhaps kissing on the cheek an adult sister. It is odd ... but it is not blameworthy unless there are other intentions ... now this was happening in a public setting which means what he was doing was obviously not intended to be something sexual or else he would have been shy of the audience. More likely is that Shaitan puts these ideas in to our heads about the intentions of people ... when they do odd things ... I said it above as well leave it alone ... if a mahram woman takes out her breast to feed a child what happens? All the mahram men look away ... They consider it odd ... if when this brother kisses his sister on the cheek and people pretend as though its normal - he'll never get the message ... Rather people should look away in a shy manner to drop the hint that it is not a normal practice.

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Re: Brothers kissing their sisters on cheeks, or anywhere.

Thanks Psyah now, it actually helped. You are right. Its actually shaitan who behkaofies us and we find things odd even if and when obviously the intentions are sacred.

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Re: Brothers kissing their sisters on cheeks, or anywhere.

I agree, with rest of your post. MashaAllah very good post.

But, this part isn't correct. The law at the time of Musa (AS) was different. A woman can not meet a non-mahram man in seclusion. That's the law according to what's given to the last Messenger, Prophet Muhammad (SAW).