Ooops, Majestic I didnt mean to sound so discouraging! Just spoke out my thoughts there ....
I am with you on that!
Nadia -- there are loads of pakistani/indian men who are still under the influence of their parents who follow customs from back home.
These guys dont necessarily believe in the materialistic, auction-oriented customs of desi marriage ceremonies.
They allow their parents to conduct the wedding customs because they are too lazy to object/or not independent enough.
Many would agree with your views ... there are plenty of guys out there like that.
:)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
They probably all relocate to the States, because there are extremely few of them here in Canada :o
[/QUOTE]
Honey, I've seen families living in the states for the past 30 years doing the same BS! It's all about materialism....truly sickening and I am so fed up of it! I wish there were more ppl like you and Maj ... more MEN like you and Maj...too many people are into showing off their material wealth which is basically what all this gift giving is all about!
Mehnaz --
your post just reminded me of a friends story.
This girl got engaged to an 'american born and bred' surgeon well settled-- whos parents were physicians too. Imagine how 'well off' they must be.
This dude asks for a house. The girls parents agreed because (I later found out -- because they thought thier daughter wouldnt get anything better. (I think shes very very pretty -- her mom worried that she was too dark.)
Then on the day before the wedding the guy asks for 22 K gold bars.
This from someone who was simply obsessed with being 'american bred and born'.
Because the dad had worked as a financial consultant in a big oil company in the ME.
The parents of the girl actually considered that request -- can you believe it?!
The wedding never happened -- for other reasons.
**
Custard Eclair, i also realize that, in some cases, the girl’s family places undue pressures upon the groom - he should be well-settled, have a ‘stable’ job etc. No one is totally blameless, i realize that. 
i am sure there are guys out there who think like Majestic, Mehnaz and me - i am not so certain whether they exist in large numbers or find themselves in the minority.
All this excessive materialism and desire of wanting to keep up with the Jones’ (or Ahmeds) strips the beauty and simplicity of one of the most important events in any individual’s life. If there is genuine respect and love between the bride and the groom, then imagine the myriad modes of expressing that love besides paying someone’s downpayment for a brand new home or purchasing furniture and kitchen appliances to keep the inlaws happy.
That is sad and very unfortunate. It goes to show how greedy Pakistani people can be when it comes to money.
I know of one girl who was with this Pakistani guy for 7 years! Just imagine how long they were together and everything they went through. He proposed to her into year 5 of the relationshpi and of course she accepted.
The problem was that HE was from a wealthy family. His father was a specialist (surgeon) and his mother was a housewife. All of his brothers and sisters were becoming doctors as well (of course, something that is just so impressive in the community; the fact that these people lacked basic table etiquette meant nothing....cause the allure of $$ from being a doctor was enough to impressive people). Anyway, the girls parents were of a more working class background.
Anyway, once the couple became officially engaged, the guys parents (more his mother) started bickering about the fact that the girl's family don't drive a Mercedes or BMW and that the father wasn't a doctor, which of course (according to them) meant that she wasn't from a good khandaan.
They made all these demands on the girls family. 1. THEY ALL had to move into a much larger house (eventhough they didn't require it); 2. the parents had to buy a nice (meaning BMW/Mercedes) vehicle for themselves AND their daughter. The idea of seeing their future daughter-in-law driving around in an Acura was simply too much for this family.
Anyway, the couple broke-up for other reasons too. The girls parents actually went house shopping for something bigger to satisfy the guy's parents. They never ended up buying new and fancy cars though. By the way, the guy, he had no objections to the demands his mother was making throughout the entire ordeal. In fact, even HE criticized her for living in an average sized home and not being rich!
Honestly, when people start talking like this at Pakistani functions, showing off about their money and material wealth, I simply tune out or else I'll say something and get into an argument.
It took the girl 7 years to realize the guy is a complete loser? Wow! some perceptive girl she is. Anyway, I am sure she is better off not actually getting married into that family. All she lost was 7 years of her life. Happens.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
It took the girl 7 years to realize the guy is a complete loser? Wow! some perceptive girl she is. Anyway, I am sure she is better off not actually getting married into that family. All she lost was 7 years of her life. Happens.
[/QUOTE]
Yes, she is truly an idiot for putting up with this BS for 7 years. I told her that too! :)
Living a modest life and being humble is often equated as failure in desi society. Most of the immigrants here in the states come from a poor family back in pakistan, and once they get money many tend to forget there humble raising and become obsessed in greed. Basically people who have never had money in there life, get it,and over do it. Does it make it right? of course not. A few guys i know who prefer to live a modest islamic way of life are ridiculed by their parents and others in the comunity as a failure and use Islam as a crutch to avoid working hard to live a lavish life. Anyway I've seen dowrys here in the US where a good friend of mine had to pay $10k cash, and they paid it no questions asked. I think most do it b/c they feel its tradition and you cant change the mentality of older people. Marriage is so superficial and its based on income, etc,etc. What's love got to do with it? Its a lose-lose situation, stand up to your rents they pull the emotional blackmail routine, and make you feel guilty and you get forced into something.. sorry if this is off-topicv :)
everything with desi people is competition, some families get in over their heads, b/c of it
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by punjab da sher: *
**Marriage is so superficial and its based on income, etc,etc. What's love got to do with it? Its a lose-lose situation, stand up to your rents they pull the emotional blackmail routine, and make you feel guilty and you get forced into something.. sorry if this is off-topicv :)
[/QUOTE]
*
No, you are not off-topic at all.
Reading your's, Mehnaz's and C. Eclair's stories - there are some depressing stories in this thread. :( i could start with my family alone and that would probably be sufficient to fill a novel.
[quote]
everything with desi people is competition, some families get in over their heads, b/c of it
[/quote]
That is so true. Showbaazi.
i hope all gals, if they decide to become married, are blessed with a husband and family that are genuinely understanding and simple-minded, Insha'Allah.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Nadia_H: *
*
i hope all gals, if they decide to become married, are blessed with a husband and family that are genuinely understanding and simple-minded, Insha'Allah.
[/QUOTE]
Nadia, don't worry. I have begun to make it perfectly clear to all potential suitors that I am not into this show-off materialistic lifestyle that the majority seem to thrive in. Sure, money is nice. However, I'm not into going out of my way to make people feel little if they don't have the latest Mercedes. With money should come class which is basically what a lot of Pakistani families fail to realise. What Punjab Da Sher said is so true. Poor people come into wealth and go buckwild and start showing off their materialism left, right and centre. However, they lack class and tact. You'll notice the difference between Pakistani families who have always had money and Pakistani families who have recently come into money. A lot of members from the former group DO have class and do not have this whole show-off attitude. sigh
Anyway, I think it is pretty safe to say that if anyone ever makes demands from me and my family and uses that as a threat to end a relationship, I will have no hesitation in kicking him to the curb! :)
So true Mehnaz. I always had issues with poor people and nouveau riche'.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by custardeclair: *
Mehnaz --
your post just reminded me of a friends story.
This girl got engaged to an 'american born and bred' surgeon well settled-- whos parents were physicians too. Imagine how 'well off' they must be.
This dude asks for a house. The girls parents agreed because (I later found out -- because they thought thier daughter wouldnt get anything better. (I think shes very very pretty -- her mom worried that she was too dark.)
Then on the day before the wedding the guy asks for 22 K gold bars.
This from someone who was simply obsessed with being 'american bred and born'.
Because the dad had worked as a financial consultant in a big oil company in the ME.
The parents of the girl actually considered that request -- can you believe it?!
The wedding never happened -- for other reasons.
[/QUOTE]
wow that is sad indeed! I honestly don't have much to say on this issue
In many parts of Pakistan this practice is considered as "daughter selling" (ignoring the fact that it is an Islamic practice) which is always referred to or connected with my people (the Pakhtuns) since it is practiced commonly in the tribal areas of NWFP.
The dowry system is more common in Pakistan then haq-maher, probably more common then India. I once read an article stating that some 3 million girls in Pakistan are at home because their poor families can not provide or live up to the demands of the grooms families.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Majestic: *
How funny is that. Anyhow, its strange how in India it is the girl who has to give the guy a dowry :D while in Islam it is the guy who HAS to give the girl a dowry.
[/QUOTE]