Re: Breaking News: Musharraf resigns
I have no problems with that rebelx, but saleem bhai keeps making his famous predictions, and we all know how they turn out to be! Abhi thorey arsey pehley saleem bhia farma rahey they PPP wont harm Mush and its all part of an understanding, and look what happened 
Re: Breaking News: Musharraf resigns
prediction toh BB kay PM honay ki bhi theen waisay toh.
laikin my point is that maybe we can just discuss things on facts and merits, and leave insults, emotionally charged statements, taunst etc out. just makes for a better discussion. not aimed at you or sa1eem in specific either, just the general tone of the forum.
Re: Breaking News: Musharraf resigns
yaar saleem, spock.. a chapter has closed, can we start the new chapter just a little nicely? putting personal preferences, biases etc aside and lookin at what is bst for the country. Part of that will be giving the current regime some time to get their bearings.
Well, best for the country is proper democracy. Unfortunately, proper democracy cannot come when people who rule are not equals (people from masses) but are unequal (Rich and powerful, landlords, Jageerdars, Vaderas, Industrialists, Gundas, Sardars, Tribal elders, etc).
Hence, proper democracy cannot come until we have certain level of education and economical well being in the country, until Pakistani masses gets out of roti, kapra and makan needs and people (unequals) do not make fool of poor masses with empty promises and propaganda, using all sort of media, so that they can loot and plunder.
Democracy is not just election. Democracy does not mean equality of conditions (all have equal wealth) as that is theoretical Communism. Democracy means a condition where everyone have equal opportunity, where hard work and merit pays and where people are not deprived of opportunity on basis of family background, family status, or financial standing. Democracy means equals ruling (or governing) equals.
We cannot expect democratic rule from people who are unequals. Pakistani democracy is sham democracy. In Pakistan, thugs (Nawaz and Zardari) are taking illusive poor Pakistani masses on ride. Worse is that, in Pakistani farce democracy people vote because they are in control of thugs (unequals) for their livelihood ... or are completely ignorant of the facts as Allah has made them human but they have made themselves Zombies and vote without thinking.
If one wants to see the inequality of people in Pakistani democracy, one can see that in PPP where workers who spent their entire life working and struggling for PPP, even people like Amin Fahim who struggled throughout for PPP, helped Z A Bhutto into politics, even declined Prime Minister slot in 2002 for party, is parliamentary leader of PPP, still he is not equal to Zardari or even Bilawal Zardari who did not even spent a single day struggling for PPP. This is called Pakistani democracy ... a family business for looting, plundering and making fool of masses.
Now, if you want me to expect any good from these thugs, than I am sorry as that would be expecting impossible. It is not like military general who in the end come from equals and may give what one can expect from equals ... and I think that all four generals who ruled Pakistan tried what Pakistanis could expect from democracy, some (like Musharraf) more successfully than others.
Yea tou miracle hou giya … lagta hay, fire burned everything around face of Musharraf but did not touched his face … 
Hence, proper democracy cannot come until we have certain level of education and economical well being in the country, until Pakistani masses gets out of roti, kapra and makan needs and people (unequals) do not make fool of poor masses with empty promises and propaganda, using all sort of media, so that they can loot and plunder.
So you are suggesting that we should have literacy rate of X **and **Y amount of people achieve personal wealth of **Z **thousand/hundred-thousand dollars as minimal until we get democracy?
We cannot expect democratic rule from people who are unequals. Pakistani democracy is sham democracy. In Pakistan, thugs (Nawaz and Zardari) are taking illusive poor Pakistani masses on ride. Worse is that, in Pakistani farce democracy people vote because they are in control of thugs (unequals) for their livelihood ... or are completely ignorant of the facts as Allah has made them human but they have made themselves Zombies and vote without thinking.
It means there is basic flaw in the democratic structure that we have or do not have strong institutions, correct?
So you are suggesting that we should have literacy rate of X **and **Y amount of people achieve personal wealth of **Z **thousand/hundred-thousand dollars as minimal until we get democracy?
What I mean is that democracy is not everything. Democracy is way of electing/selecting people to govern the country. Purpose of government is betterment of people and same method is not answer for all conditions. In one condition (where country is feudal, tribal, poor and uneducated), only a good dictator from amongst the people can change things and bring good for the people. But if country is educated, not tribal, people are not dependent for their livelihood on land, than democracy is better. A country needs good dictatorial rule (or good monarchy) to get to state where democracy can come and flourish. This happened in almost all world countries where democracy is flourishing and is not sham democracy (like India and Pakistan).
It means there is basic flaw in the democratic structure that we have or do not have strong institutions, correct?
Institution is nothing to do with nor depends on democracy, dictatorship or monarchy. Institution depends on state of governance. If governance is good it would seem that institutions are working but if governance is bad than it would seem that institutions are not working. The biggest guarantor of institution is laws based on equality (for every citizen regardless of colour, race, religion or sect) and armed forces that protect the country and the laws.
India needs to be careful now.
I am waiting for the official Indian response.
Here is the unofficial response;.
Mush was the best of the lot Pakistan ever got. Yes he fumbled several times, was mastermind of Kargil but who in Pakistani politics has a clean record.
In my opinion his biggest mistake was the perception he created in Pakistan of him being a diehard stooge of uncle sam, unwarranted fiddling with the judiciary, muzzling the media et al. These collectively led to his downfall.
But if Pakistan continues with the legacy of chucking out the incumbent by hook or crook..it would be quite unfortunate. I hope saner counsel will prevail.
India needs to be careful now.
I am waiting for the official Indian response.
Yea, India should always be careful. Playing with fire can prove to be dangerous. Stop supporting BLA. Stop interfering in Pakistan's Affairs.
Yea tou miracle hou giya ... lagta hay, fire burned everything around face of Musharraf but did not touched his face ... :)
LOL. :)
Re: Breaking News: Musharraf resigns
I dont understand the support on this forum for the so called "Judicary"?
Have any of you ever dealt with lawyers? ever been to a kacheri?.....Do you how cases can be dropped or stalled with money!? Lawyers, like everywhere else in Pakistan wont speak to you unless you have "approach"!!!!!
The lawyery is as crook as any other thing in the land of the pure! In a country where you cant get justice but can buy a judge....i will never support them!!!and thats why i never supported his royal highness the chief justice!!!
Back to Mr Musharraf. Already more and more people have come on this thread and said a few kind words about Musharraf. I guess we all are guilty of destroying that mans 47 year career!!!!
How cheap some folks can be....sweets hain, dance ho rahe hain ...how mean.
Pakistan deserve karta hai aaj woh jahan hai yaar.
Musharif sahab ne kabhi kuch acha bhi to kiya hoga na, try to remeber that pakis
Jang is such a JUNK newspaper. What can you expect from their news channel? Its hugely paindoo and caters at best to the paanwala crowd.
Agreed 100%. Freedom of speech ka yeh matlab nahi hai ke ap batameezi karen aur phir jab is batameezi per ap ko roko to kehte hain ke hum azad nahi hai. Apne mulk ke saari baatain, larai jhagrey ki ball to ball commentry ki jaati hai.Ager inhe journalsits se kaha jaye ke woh apne ghar ke larai jhagron ki bhi reporting karen unhain live telecast karen to kya woh kren ge KABHI NAHI.Who yeh kahen ge ke hum apne ghar ke mamlaat ko tv per q dehain.Lekin shayed woh yeh baat bhool gaye hain ke Pakistan woh ghar hai jis main un ka ghar hai.ager reporting krne se pehle woh yeh soch len to shayed mulk ke log kam uz kam positive soch rakhnen gey and kuch behter ker4ni ki koshish karen ge. Pakistan ke saare journalists ne puri duniya main Pakistan ka mazaq banaya hua hai.
I dont understand the support on this forum for the so called "Judicary"? Have any of you ever dealt with lawyers? ever been to a kacheri?.....Do you how cases can be dropped or stalled with money!? Lawyers, like everywhere else in Pakistan wont speak to you unless you have "approach"!!!!!
The lawyery is as crook as any other thing in the land of the pure! In a country where you cant get justice but can buy a judge....i will never support them!!!and thats why i never supported his royal highness the chief justice!!!
So, are you saying that lawyers should not charge for legal services they provide? In any case, it it was never about lawyers, CJ or anyone else for that matter. It was institution of judiciary & how independent judiciary is important for stability & functioning of the country.
Re: Breaking News: Musharraf resigns
we all need musharraf back for development in the true way.Nawaz chacha ne sirf 1 mptorway banaya tha and musharaff ke dour main kahan se kahan roads banaye gaye. Look at gawader, the dams,. And zardari chacha wohi hai na jo Pakistan ke paison se apne horses ko saib ke murabbay khilay kerta tha and apne un horses ke liye Pakistan ke paise se Air Conditioner lagaye they.Ab tou horses ke liye bunglows banaye jaye ge. Roti Kapra Makaan sub bhool jao.
So, are you saying that lawyers should not charge for legal services they provide? In any case, it it was never about lawyers, CJ or anyone else for that matter. It was institution of judiciary & how independent judiciary is important for stability & functioning of the country.
Sub bakwas hai.Judiciary ager hote ajj her case ka faisla ho gaya hota. Kitne aise cases hain jo ab tak chalte aarahe hain...Parents ke cases un ke bachey lar rahey. Ager cj sahab chahtey to unhon sirf 1 order dena tha ke saare cases ki karwai foran mukmal ki jaye.Unhon ne aisa kiya nahi.
So, are you saying that lawyers should not charge for legal services they provide? In any case, it it was never about lawyers, CJ or anyone else for that matter. It was institution of judiciary & how independent judiciary is important for stability & functioning of the country.
I didnt say not charge....I meant for them justice=lots of money....which is probably the same in any country i guess!!!
But go and ask any farmer whos had his land just taken over by the village wadera with his goons if he can get justice?...
There is no such thing as a just judicary in Pakistan!!!
I didnt say not charge....I meant for them justice=lots of money....which is probably the same in any country i guess!!!
But go and ask any farmer whos had his land just taken over by the village wadera with his goons if he can get justice?...
There is no such thing as a just judicary in Pakistan!!!
Yes i agree with you.ager lana bhi chahen to nahi la sakte. kyoun ke sirf police wale he nahi rishwat lete.Ploce ke baad dosera no. lawyers ka ata hai. Aur ager judiciary hoti to mukhtara mai ke saath jo kuch hua supreme court ne us ka koi notice nahi liya bulke mulk ke social workers ne us ka mamla logo ko bataya lekin us ke bawajood us ki koi help nahi ki gayi.Phir suna tha ke kisi dosery mulk ki taraf se offer ayi thi help ki.Yeh humare liye sharm ka muqaam hai ke humari judiciary apne masail khud hul nahi ker sakti.
I didnt say not charge....I meant for them justice=lots of money....which is probably the same in any country i guess!!!
But go and ask any farmer whos had his land just taken over by the village wadera with his goons if he can get justice?...
There is no such thing as a just judicary in Pakistan!!!
So what you are saying is that because the judiciary is no good , in the event that they try and do something good, sack them because the case was going to go against your beloved dictator. If Musharraf was sincere with the country he would have tried to strengthen such institutions instead of destroying them.
Another point many people have said here that same people are celebrating here who were celebrating when he took over. Of course they were, they had high hopes from him and he let them down badly that is why they were disappointed in him and were celebrating. That is why not only in Pakistan but everywhere govt changes when they dont meet peoples aspirations. Look at UK, Blair came in with one of the biggest majority ever, yet when he left people were fed up with him and were rejocing at his departure. That is the reality, get to grips with it instead of calling anyone who do not agree with views as expressed by many here as Jahils. The people of Paksitan may not be educated or have internet access like many do but they are politically much more enlightened than many here.
Re: Breaking News: Musharraf resigns
I do not have any respect for a judicary that asks for justice itself but fails to dole out justice to anyone else!!! When was the last time you heard of anyonr getting justice in Pakistan???
I have not called anyone jahil. You have a right to an opinion and i respect that.
Blair won on a heavy majority...A lesser one in his second term....almost didnt make it on the third term...and now we have an unelected leader ruling us? See people on the streets? They should be!!!!!