Okay guppies.
Please discuss this issue I want to get some insight on this. Whats wrong if a person wants to go abroad and make a better living? Why should they stay here and not get recognized? There are so many more questions like these I can’t find the answers to.
So please help me out here.
Brain Drain is a serious issue ofr countries like Pakistan which need the talent to help build itself and to compete.
The challeneg is twofold, how much can one sacrifice now for future gains? Many people move because they can not find the educational and/or career opportunities they need. In many cases they have family responsibilities of a financial nature which they may not be able to satisfy while working in Pakistan.
Things have changed over the years. I know of several people who have gone back top Pakistan after getting educated in US and are doing very well there and are working in areas which will definitely help. These include engineers, scientists and technology professionals.
Its a big balance between desire on the part of the person, opportunity on the part of the economy, financial responsibility and commitments etc.
Some good points phir sahib..
in simpler terms: loyalty
just like one shouldnt leave your mother to die you shouldn't leave your country.
Really a matter of your ethical standing.
It is very hard, in the end 10 or 20,000 rs per month for someone who's done a PHD isn't much to live on, besides that opportunities are so few in Pakistan. I for one have not known many people who managed to go back successfully unless they were taking over something that was already a family concern.
I don't know if it has been successful or not, but the Pak govt does run the TOKTEN program and also has the overseas Pakistani foundation. If their was enough money and incentive I am sure many would want to go back, but if you are maried you do want to maintain a standard of life for your children.
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*Originally posted by ~MuNiYa~: *
Some good points phir sahib..
in simpler terms: loyalty
just like one shouldnt leave your mother to die you shouldn't leave your country.
Really a matter of your ethical standing.
[/QUOTE]
Right, but even in literal terms peopel have left their ill parents to go abroad so they could afford care for their parents as well as education and a bright future for their siblings. I have met construction workers in Saudi Arabis who were setting up small business for their siblings in Pakistan and Cabbies in US who were supporting their siblings in colleges and universities in Pakistan.
Zakk
I know a number of people who have gone back and have done fairly well. Most of the people who went back and had an opportunity to get back out have either done so, or have planned to do so due to law and order situation as well as rampant ghunda gardi.
There is a difference between immediate opportunities after education and opportunities later after one is a seasoned professional.
I would even suggest that in some cases the brain drain is good, because people who are leaving, they are helping their families and communities in some cases, and otherwise getting exposed to new technologies etc abroad, and even if someof them go back they do this technology transfer on a personal level.
as a matter of fact if you look at major pakistani software and technology houses, they were filled with people who studied and worked abroad, same goes for many multinationals.
But opportunities are limited and the market gets saturated quickly. there is a big difference in finding opportunities and creating opportunities.
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*Originally posted by Fraudz: *
Right, but even in literal terms peopel have left their ill parents to go abroad so they could afford care for their parents as well as education and a bright future for their siblings. I have met construction workers in Saudi Arabis who were setting up small business for their siblings in Pakistan and Cabbies in US who were supporting their siblings in colleges and universities in Pakistan.
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and again ery good points... since when you did you become so intelligent? ;)
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*Originally posted by ~MuNiYa~: *
and again ery good points... since when you did you become so intelligent? ;)
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I hired someone else to write that reponse for me actually. :P
Its a matter of opportunities. If favoritism, nepotism and phone calls continue to be the reason why people get employed, you can't possibly expect the intelligents to stay in the country.
Just like we ought to try and go back and help bring about change, its THEIR responsibility in Pakistan to welcome us. And sometimes, people go back to find they're not welcome.
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*Originally posted by PyariCgudia: *
Its sometimes, people go back to find they're not welcome.
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And sometimes they go back and find out that just by being form aborad theya re giving everyone a license to rob, cheat or harrass them since they dont usually have the conenctions or know the ins and outs of that corrupt system.
The problem is partially with the system, and partially with folks who do return. Most, if not all, expect to be paid a dollar equivalent of what they were making in the US or UK. Thats unrealistic, and ridiculous.
Pakistan has tossed between periods of brightness and darkness. The problem is, people fail to capitalize on the brighter periods, and assume that the same old corrupt system reigns, regardless. They just tend to associate the name of Pakistan with corruption, period. Thats not how it works. If people are not willing to take calculated risks, they will never find out what opportunities Pakistan has for them. Risks are there, no matter where you go. How many doctors and engineers do we have who gave up their life savings in order to migrate to the US, Canada or UK, and are now there, driving cabs, while their MBA wives work as nannies, and kids chip in with 40 hours at McDonalds? Theyd gladly do that in the west, but as they say in urdu, doing all that in Pakistan, un ki matti paleed hoti hai.
Its our attitudes too, not just the system. People need to start taking responsibilities for their own lives, rather than blame everything on the system.
Regarding Lahori maharanis questions, there is nothing wrong with someone wanting to go abroad, so long as they can prove that an equivalent quality education is not available in Pakistan. There is nothing wrong in staying abroad, if they can prove that they have committed some time in researching whether or not they could get similarly rated opportunity in Pakistan.
The sad fact is, we take the easy way out, and refuse to change with time. Education systems varied vastly in standards between Pakistan and the west, till about 15 years ago. But over the past 5-10 years, that gap has reduced a lot. There are many western affiiliated universities in Pakistan. There are many whose graduates are taken hand in hand overseas in professional jobs. So one may ask, if a civil engineering graduate from NED university can work in a New York construction firm, making immaculate roads, for a measly $38k salary, why the heck cant he do the same in Pakistan, where undoubtedly he will be paid more on a comparitive basis?
Even If these guys decide to stay back there, What can they do without proper Infrastructure ?
People keave for a better standard of life, theres nothing wrong with that. Its not there fault that Pakistan has so few opportunities that anyone with the means is leaving.
Originally posted by Akif: *
**The problem is partially with the system, and partially with folks who do return. Most, if not all, expect to be paid a dollar equivalent of what they were making in the US or UK. Thats unrealistic, and ridiculous. *
The problem is with the people partially, agreed. i.e people in Pakistan. I dont think people who go back look for the same compensation but similar compensation keeping the Cost of living in perspective. Which really is not a very hard thing to do in some fields.
However, there are other social and societal issues that people are just not ready for. We hear a lot about cultural shock when someone leaves the country, but there is something called reverse cultural shock, when some expat returns. And there is a lot that needs to be improved in Pakistan for many people who have lived a great portion of their lives abroad, to feel safe and to feel at ease.
*Thats not how it works. If people are not willing to take calculated risks, they will never find out what opportunities Pakistan has for them. *
It would be a good idea to dos ome survey of expats who returned, stayed or left again, as well as their kids. Maybe people do estimate calculated risks and the risks outweigh the opportunities. For some it works and for some it does not. It is much easier fort someone who just came out for a masters degree and went back to Pakistan after 2 years. this person is familiar with the system and has the network etc to be able to find opportunities and know the ins and oust of the system. On the other hand soemone who has beena broad for 25 years would have a very different situation.
*How many doctors and engineers do we have who gave up their life savings in order to migrate to the US, Canada or UK, and are now there, driving cabs, while their MBA wives work as nannies, and kids chip in with 40 hours at McDonalds? *
At the same time how many docs do you see who are loaded. or Pakistani MBAs who have come here done another MBA and are doing werll, same goes for engineers, I have spent time at Motorola, Honeywell and Lucent etc, do you have any idea how many desi engineers are working there?
for every struggling person there are many successful ones. I too know of a desi doctor who is working at a hospital lab testing blood sampes etc, basically as a lab tech, I know another doctor workign at baggage claims in an airline, and another one who lastI heard was working at a gas station. what's common among these 3 people..they did not pass their exams here, could not pass Flex or whatever the exams name is now. But they are trying..but for the same three people I noted, i know their class mates too. The guy who is baggage claim guy, his class fellow is a well known cardiologist in Chicago. the guy who was working at a gas station, half of his class from DMC is in US and all are doing very well. and the guy who is working as a labtech all of his classmates who came here are very senior in their work and some have started private practices.
Now one may wonder, these guys who are doing these odd jobs, why are they doing it, why dont they go back. Its not just a whim but they have figured that even if it takes them soem time to pass the exams and all, that they will have a better quality of life here. as far as the labtech goes, according to him, even being a lab tech here for him is a better standard of life .
*Theyd gladly do that in the west, but as they say in urdu, doing all that in Pakistan, un ki matti paleed hoti hai. *
Right some peopel take on odd jobs while waiting for better opportunities. However the cultural taboos associated with doing odd jobs in pakistan are much different.
*Its our attitudes too, not just the system. People need to start taking responsibilities for their own lives, rather than blame everything on the system. *
and in many cases taking responsibility of their own lives does include blaming the system because there are fewer opportunities, more hassle and the crooked nature of what goes on there is especially tough for expast who have lived their lives abroad.
I know people who have gone back and and ben successful. My dad returned to Pak after being overseas for over 30 years and was very successful in corporate world working as the CEO for a major Pakistani company. But somethings did take their toll when he shalved his plans to start his own factories for PVC pips and what nots due to the type of hassle as well as corruption he began to face. I know a gentleman who went back and set up a hospital etc, but after being robbed a few times and then a kidnap, he bailed.
Most expats that return to Pakistan are thise who were in the middle east because eventually they ahve to..they cant be citizens there so thats a temporary place. I have not seen too many Expats from the west heading back. Even for the middleaast expats, I have noticed many either leave for the west in a few years, or atleast their kids are sent abroad with an assumption that they may not be coming back to stay.
Does Pakistan have opportunities, yes, are they increasing yes. The peopel who have lived a large part of their lives overseas, could they handle the ground reality of Pakistan.. I dunno.
Would anyone have any info (idea) about the current unemployment rate in Pakistan?
There was a survey done not long ago of the graduating students from business/professional school, over 95% indicated a desire to emigrate.
All this drama looks good on Gupshup and paper, one has to be an idiot to pass up the opportunity to gain financial and professional development and security. For one advertised job in Pakistan there are 5000 candidates, and if people think that bringing the educated professionals back to Pakistan will somehow improve the situation are having a pretty nice dream. Pakistan needs to change its outdated mode of doing things (and learn from India), create an open and competitive environment, and then it will perhaps be the time for those who want to go back to go back. Until we have crooks and generals running the affairs, it is better to stay put.
On the other hand, expats are the single most important source of sending the much-needed foreign exchange.
Re: Brain Drain from Pakistan.
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*Originally posted by LahoriMaharani: *
Okay guppies.
Please discuss this issue I want to get some insight on this. Whats wrong if a person wants to go abroad and make a better living? Why should they stay here and not get recognized? There are so many more questions like these I can't find the answers to.
So please help me out here.
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i agree with u 100%. alot of our parents think the same way!
Re: Brain Drain from Pakistan.
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*Originally posted by LahoriMaharani: *
Okay guppies.
Please discuss this issue I want to get some insight on this. Whats wrong if a person wants to go abroad and make a better living? Why should they stay here and not get recognized? There are so many more questions like these I can't find the answers to.
So please help me out here.
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Its never bad Lahore di maharani'ji. I miss Lahore which is under ur rule unfortunately.. I never wanted to leave but ppl kicked me from there.. they never liked my jokes.. But i make it a point not to miss pakistan.. I still smoke beedis.. and eat paan in front of gora ppl.