Bond between Allah and Banda.

[Theorist]

Re: Bond between Allah and Banda.

^LOL, the only difference is when an advice is given to me, I act on it. Needless to say, you guys helped me out and I no longer feel “stuck.”

I momentarily had forgotten how to care for others. And you don’t know what dark situations I have been through, you don’t know me. Maybe it’s my coping skills that allow me to feel that i have NEVER been in any horrible dark situation.

Say I do face a really difficult situation, how’s believing in God would help me? If anything, I will stop trying to fix it and leave it upto God to help me out. How do I know it’s going to help me? and if it does, how do i know it’s God?

[Enigmatic]

Re: Bond between Allah and Banda.

@Theorist

That’s what makes the world of a difference. Just sitting and doing nothing thinking that Divine Intervention would soon come help you vs doing all that you can and when things no longer are in your hands leaving everything to Allah and praying for things to get the way that are best for you.

I have this example that I think I have used earlier too- we are surrounded by 2 circles around us when it comes to attaining or achieving results of our various tasks that we plan and do.

Let’s talk about a hypothetical situation of having some sort of a tough exam. The inner circle is under our control where we can study as hard as we could and prepare for the upcoming exam in a good way. The outer circle is what we have no control over. The time when we set from our home till the time we are done with the examination. Transport delays, car breakdown, getting sick during exam, not recalling anything even though we studied and memorised almost everything! And this outer circle is what makes me a firm believer that somebody else (a Higher Power or Allah) is overlooking everything.

Happens with everybody but what gets me through during that time when I can’t do anything to change/modify the expectant results etc is my faith in Allah that I did what I could. Now it’s up to Him to make the best of things for me.

It doesn’t mean I just give up ,sit and do nothing about the exam and say Allah would help me because He obviously won’t then Reminds me of the story where a person was drowning in sea and he kept saying that Allah would save him. A ship came to his rescue but he again said I don’t need you my Allah would save me’
When he died he protested to God that why didn’t He save him. God said I sent you help. What else you wanted?

[Mirch]

Re: Bond between Allah and Banda.

@Theorist

^LOL, the only difference is when an advice is given to me, I act on it. Needless to say, you guys helped me out and I no longer feel “stuck.”

I momentarily had forgotten how to care for others. And you don’t know what dark situations I have been through, you don’t know me. Maybe it’s my coping skills that allow me to feel that i have NEVER been in any horrible dark situation.

Say I do face a really difficult situation, how’s believing in God would help me? If anything, I will stop trying to fix it and leave it upto God to help me out. How do I know it’s going to help me? and if it does, how do i know it’s God?

Believing in God does not prevent anyone from working on fixing bad situations, it is their laziness which prevents them from working hard.
God comes in handy when you work hard to fix a bad situation and nothing you do seems to be working , then you leave it to God to fix it for you or take it as God’s will and hope that something better has been planned by God for you which you do not know as yet.
God comes in handy for what is not known , for everything else there is google.

[Theorist]

Re: Bond between Allah and Banda.

Good posts, Enigmatic and Mirch. It sure is something to think about. Thanks!

[psyah]

Re: Bond between Allah and Banda.

Peace

The condition of this life is an interesting one. If a person makes one step towards Allah then Allah will make many steps towards that person. It is thus important to note that after doing good we feel good, but after doing evil we can also feel good but we can also feel bad. If we react to that bad feeling by doing good then we can say that Allah has been Merciful to us - because we have shown humility and felt guilt, but if we react to a bad situation by doing more evil, then eventually Allah will leave us and we will feel that what evil we do is good or immaterial.

A friend of mine who used to be an atheist but then became Muslim said, “Doing some evil such as a theft or telling a lie or swearing will make you feel really bad, but then each time you do it the bad feeling gets less and less until a point it is no big deal, and then later it becomes fun and then desirable and then we begin to justify those actions as if they are good”

Now I think … that process is the obvious cascading patterns of a person being left to go astray … we are warned time and again in the scriptures that the heedlessness of Allah is the easiest way to live in this world … If ever we fall into a position where we justify our own ignorance then we can consider ourselves abandoned by God. Neither will see the light nor shall we desire seeing it.

Our bond with Allah (SWT) is strengthened when we question ourselves and when we feel guilt and try to improve ourselves … there have been many cases also told in the Qur’an that Allah (SWT) helps them and in difficulty they will say O Allah help us, and when the help comes they say “We did by our own efforts” … Why can’t we read the words and reflect one them properly?

It also states in the Qur’an, that “those who think themselves self-sufficient are in a downward spiral to ruin” … and if we believe that being “rich” is enough to gain the delights of this world we are mistaken … for sure the greatest delight of this world is to feel that no part of it has enslaved us … when we learn to free ourselves from the shackles of “want” then we reduce the propensity to “need” and when we do this the doors to “bliss” open …

We can only pray that Allah makes us vessels to make the best invitation to faith … one that few people can refuse … but alas there will always be those who are going elsewhere and do not want to be invited, let alone want to attend after being invited … We can only pray that Allah moves their heart …

… There was an Australian brother (his video is on Youtube) … he was telling his story about how he came to Islam … he said “all I want is a sign” … He said “God if you show me a sign that you exist then I’ll believe” he said this during reading a translation of the Qur’an … but the way Islam is often the last of the major religions that people who look for faith decide to research … I feel this has something to do with the Shaitan trying his hardest to avert us from Truth. Anyway this brother … he picked up the Qur’an and the very next verse stated … “They ask you to show a sign, do they not look around at creation, etc …” and he was shocked … You see a clear miracle of the Qur’an is that it talks to you - it is as if it is being revealed there and then …

But in order for this to work one needs to believe in God and also be sincere in searching for God … If we wait for God to appear we are only arrogating to ourselves our own sense of self-importance … that brother repented … but you see these gems that lead us towards God - first of all we need to admit that we can be wrong, then we need to be humble, and then we need to realise our need … based on our total vulnerability.

I suggest to all atheists that they make the assumption that God does exist … then see if based on this assumption do certain things draw us closer to this concept of God or not …

[Theorist]

Re: Bond between Allah and Banda.

Even if I do make the assumption that God exists, Islam is not the religion I will EVER choose. there’s so much I disagree with. I don’t believe in warfare, I don’t believe violence has ever solved a problem. I don’t believe you need to lie and cheat your way to victory. I don’t believe women should be treated as Islam suggests.

Most other religions are too mystical.. And also, believing in a higher power does not equal following an organized religion. religion to me is mad made while a higher power may or may not exist.

[psyah]

Re: Bond between Allah and Banda.

@Theorist

Even if I do make the assumption that God exists, Islam is not the religion I will EVER choose. there’s so much I disagree with. I don’t believe in warfare, I don’t believe violence has ever solved a problem. I don’t believe you need to lie and cheat your way to victory. I don’t believe women should be treated as Islam suggests.

Most other religions are too mystical.. And also, believing in a higher power does not equal following an organized religion. religion to me is mad made while a higher power may or may not exist.

Peace Theorist

I don’t believe warfare is desired in Islam so at least this may be something that could be looked in to by you … perhaps you can check which of the opinions is more authentic - whether Islam promotes war or that Islam stops war.

Regarding the treatment of women I feel many Muslim men treat women incorrectly, but I do not think that what you have learnt about Islam is correct regarding the treatment of women … It is odd but the majority of the converts to Islam in the West are women. Why?

Following an organised religion is not that bad a deal - it helps us become organised … there are people who take advantage of their situations but ultimately they have no real power over us … Personally I think organised religion is good like having an organised home, or organised workplace … I don’t expect Islam to be the first choice you go for … Islam is one of those houses that looks horrible on the outside but is beautiful on the inside … Please feel free to enter at your own convenience … dear sibling in humanity.

[Theorist]

Re: Bond between Allah and Banda.

@psyah

Peace Theorist

I don’t believe warfare is desired in Islam so at least this may be something that could be looked in to by you … perhaps you can check which of the opinions is more authentic - whether Islam promotes war or that Islam stops war.

Call it self-defense or whatever, it is just not something I would expect God to command us to do - fight each other for religious beliefs and political gain. Christianity did not stop with Jesus’ death. Islam wouldn’t have stopped with Muhammad’s death. There was no need for violence, especially from the man of God. At least this prerequisite has to be met for me to believe that a Man could be a prophet.

Also, I don’t believe a higher power would cherrypick a few men to tell the rest of the world about his existence - sounds more like an E.T. encounter than God.

Regarding the treatment of women I feel many Muslim men treat women incorrectly, but **I do not think that what you have learnt about Islam is correct regarding the treatment of women **… It is odd but the majority of the converts to Islam in the West are women. Why?

The fact that men have rights over women is enough to ensue abuse towards women. Also Quran conveniently forgets that it’s talking to women as well. why are the audience expected to be men? why does it have a separate chapter on women like it does on livestock and everything else. Did God conveniently forget that women someday would be able to read, be as powerful as men?

As for more women converting to Islam in the west, this is all hogwash. There’s a greater number of women leaving islam but you obviously wouldn’t hear about them and I think you understand why.

this is borderline offensive. I shall stop here. this will do no good.

Following an organised religion is not that bad a deal - it helps us become organised … there are people who take advantage of their situations but ultimately they have no real power over us … Personally I think organised religion is good like having an organised home, or organised workplace … I don’t expect Islam to be the first choice you go for … **Islam is one of those houses that looks horrible on the outside but is beautiful on the inside **… Please feel free to enter at your own convenience … dear sibling in humanity.

I have looked at it from the outside and have lived inside of it, I didn’t see any beauty.

[Shazia_Arif]

Re: Bond between Allah and Banda.

your topic drag me here…Allah Himself tell us that you can see numberless blessing which indicates my presence…its up to us that we feels n sees them or not n secondly that when we call Him with true heart He surely listens to us.

[Shazia_Arif]

Re: Bond between Allah and Banda.

@Theorist

Call it self-defense or whatever, it is just not something I would expect God to command us to do - fight each other for religious beliefs and political gain. Christianity did not stop with Jesus’ death. Islam wouldn’t have stopped with Muhammad’s death. There was no need for violence, especially from the man of God. At least this prerequisite has to be met for me to believe that a Man could be a prophet.

Also, I don’t believe a higher power would cherrypick a few men to tell the rest of the world about his existence - sounds more like an E.T. encounter than God.

The fact that men have rights over women is enough to ensue abuse towards women. Also Quran conveniently forgets that it’s talking to women as well. why are the audience expected to be men? why does it have a separate chapter on women like it does on livestock and everything else. Did God conveniently forget that women someday would be able to read, be as powerful as men?

As for more women converting to Islam in the west, this is all hogwash. There’s a greater number of women leaving islam but you obviously wouldn’t hear about them and I think you understand why.

this is borderline offensive. I shall stop here. this will do no good.

I have looked at it from the outside and have lived inside of it, I didn’t see any beauty.

Islam don’t teach us to be offensive when you feel that other is just barking at the wrong tree…have read your whole post so concluded that you have many misconceptions about Islam…i can’t setisfy you through some posts…you better should consult to some islamic scholar.

[psyah]

Re: Bond between Allah and Banda.

@Theorist

Call it self-defense or whatever, it is just not something I would expect God to command us to do - fight each other for religious beliefs and political gain. Christianity did not stop with Jesus’ death. Islam wouldn’t have stopped with Muhammad’s death. There was no need for violence, especially from the man of God. At least this prerequisite has to be met for me to believe that a Man could be a prophet.

Also, I don’t believe a higher power would cherrypick a few men to tell the rest of the world about his existence - sounds more like an E.T. encounter than God.

The fact that men have rights over women is enough to ensue abuse towards women. Also Quran conveniently forgets that it’s talking to women as well. why are the audience expected to be men? why does it have a separate chapter on women like it does on livestock and everything else. Did God conveniently forget that women someday would be able to read, be as powerful as men?

As for more women converting to Islam in the west, this is all hogwash. There’s a greater number of women leaving islam but you obviously wouldn’t hear about them and I think you understand why.

this is borderline offensive. I shall stop here. this will do no good.

I have looked at it from the outside and have lived inside of it, I didn’t see any beauty.

Peace Theorist

We can fight in only two circumstances:

a) When an oppressor is oppressing a people - to liberate them
b) When an oppressor is oppressing us we can retaliate

We are not allowed to kill others for politcal gain and we can’t force people to become Muslim … what however we can do is offer the enemy in either a) or b) to avoid fighting by doing one of the following:

1. Accepting Islam (stop fighting) and hence earn protection
2. Not accept Islam but stop fighting and live peacefully as a citizen of the Islamic state paying taxes
3. To leave - i.e. run away

If the person insists to continue fighting then we defend (either others or ourselves) with valour.

Regarding the picking of a few men to tell the rest of the world about Him … I don’t know why that is the case … but it is … perhaps a wisdom behind this is that although many see great honour for men in being chosen by God to be prophets, we need to understand that in the grand scheme of things they were only a few of them … such people need to be subjected to lots of hardship such as travel and abuse and in a way a woman is saved from such a thing. On the other side each prophet had a mother to whom they needed to be most dutiful to … Generally men deal with the public and have been doing so since the beginning of time … there may be a natural tendency for prophets to have been men … although some scholars feel that people like Sayyiduna Maryam (AS) the Mother of Jesus (AS) was prophet like - since she was visited by the Angel Gabriel (AS) … Also, we have many scholars who are women since after our own prophet came and went …

Regarding the parts in the Qur’an about women … well Arabic deals with humans and says so in many places … “insaan” which covers all humans. It will make mention of men in particular and also make mention of women in particular … all three conditions are served … however when it deals with humans in general it uses the masculine gender because that is the limitation in Arabic - it does not have a neutral gender … Also, nature itself is almost sexist … the male human has an X and a Y chromosome, but a female will have two X chromosomes … The male contains both and the female contains one type … it is interesting how the One who made us addresses us in terms of how He made us … Actually this observation of the Qur’an addressing the men was made by a woman early in the time of the prophet Muhammad (SAW) I won’t hazard a guess but I think it was a high ranking (female) Sahabiya. Soon after verses upon verses came for women and many verses doubled the emphasis for men and for women … The names of the Chapters are not part of the Qur’an - These have been given by the followers many years afterwards. I wouldn’t judge the Qur’an on the basis of how the Chapters are named … that would be a great injustice to the Word of God … which came as raw revelation not as chapters and titles …

In terms of the way women and men have been given very different expectations in Islam is about the duties that they are given … in an office, each person does the tasks that is allocated to their skills and abilities - why should Islam put the burden of earning household income for the family when the chances of her being out of action for at least 4 months due to pregnancies is present? In fact many women today even are on lower salaries than men because 9 times out of 10 they are second income earners - many do not need to work and others have part time responsibilities … but they are ok with this … it is because they know at some point they may not be able to come in to work. Islam gives space and freedom to women and this is often taken wrongly as doesn’t value women enough … so I think there is another side to this whole conversation.

And yes there are many women who leave Islam … most of them due to familial pressures and bad husbands … not about Islam.

[Theorist]

Re: Bond between Allah and Banda.

@psyah

Peace Theorist

We can fight in only two circumstances:

a) When an oppressor is oppressing a people - to liberate them
b) When an oppressor is oppressing us we can retaliate

We are not allowed to kill others for politcal gain and we can’t force people to become Muslim … what however we can do is offer the enemy in either a) or b) to avoid fighting by doing one of the following:

1. Accepting Islam (stop fighting) and hence earn protection
2. Not accept Islam but stop fighting and live peacefully as a citizen of the Islamic state paying taxes
3. To leave - i.e. run away

If the person insists to continue fighting then we defend (either others or ourselves) with valour.

Regarding the picking of a few men to tell the rest of the world about Him … I don’t know why that is the case … but it is … perhaps a wisdom behind this is that although many see great honour for men in being chosen by God to be prophets, we need to understand that in the grand scheme of things they were only a few of them … such people need to be subjected to lots of hardship such as travel and abuse and in a way a woman is saved from such a thing. On the other side each prophet had a mother to whom they needed to be most dutiful to … Generally men deal with the public and have been doing so since the beginning of time … there may be a natural tendency for prophets to have been men … although some scholars feel that people like Sayyiduna Maryam (AS) the Mother of Jesus (AS) was prophet like - since she was visited by the Angel Gabriel (AS) … Also, we have many scholars who are women since after our own prophet came and went …

Regarding the parts in the Qur’an about women … well Arabic deals with humans and says so in many places … “insaan” which covers all humans. It will make mention of men in particular and also make mention of women in particular … all three conditions are served … however when it deals with humans in general it uses the masculine gender because that is the limitation in Arabic - it does not have a neutral gender … Also, nature itself is almost sexist … the male human has an X and a Y chromosome, but a female will have two X chromosomes … The male contains both and the female contains one type … it is interesting how the One who made us addresses us in terms of how He made us … Actually this observation of the Qur’an addressing the men was made by a woman early in the time of the prophet Muhammad (SAW) I won’t hazard a guess but I think it was a high ranking (female) Sahabiya. Soon after verses upon verses came for women and many verses doubled the emphasis for men and for women … The names of the Chapters are not part of the Qur’an - These have been given by the followers many years afterwards. I wouldn’t judge the Qur’an on the basis of how the Chapters are named … that would be a great injustice to the Word of God … which came as raw revelation not as chapters and titles …

In terms of the way women and men have been given very different expectations in Islam is about the duties that they are given … in an office, each person does the tasks that is allocated to their skills and abilities - why should Islam put the burden of earning household income for the family when the chances of her being out of action for at least 4 months due to pregnancies is present? In fact many women today even are on lower salaries than men because 9 times out of 10 they are second income earners - many do not need to work and others have part time responsibilities … but they are ok with this … it is because they know at some point they may not be able to come in to work. Islam gives space and freedom to women and this is often taken wrongly as doesn’t value women enough … so I think there is another side to this whole conversation.

And yes there are many women who leave Islam … most of them due to familial pressures and bad husbands … not about Islam.

I don’t believe Muslims fought against oppression but then again that’s probably my interpretation. They banished and killed the very people that welcomed them into their land. Anyway, I am not going to go there. I just don’t agree with most of their actions and I don’t for a second believe that Quran is the word of God. Politically, muslims made great warriors but I don’t believe this was for some mighty God. They did win many wars and conquered any place they decided was worth invading.

If there’s a God, there’s no need for it to hide itself. I am not against believing in God but I am very much against orgarnized religions. History is pretty much full of bloodshed caused by religions - it’s not just Islam.

O and about women, duties change with time. responsibilities change with time. It’s only very recent that women have truly started caring about having a career. Obviously we are seeing some resistance to this change by conservative/religious people who don’t believe women have a place outside of their little homes. Give us a few more decades and you will see their attempts to resist this change will die and there will not be any discrimination. It’s all determined by time, not religion which is still living in the same century it was born in.

It was nice talking to you, Psyah! Unfortunately, it will take a lot more for me to change my mind about Islam.

[Disney_Princess]

Re: Bond between Allah and Banda.

Enigmatic. This is what I would have told Theorist, but you did a better job than I would have done.

[Monk]

Re: Bond between Allah and Banda.

I think
I think Allah thought about it already…
did you remember him asking you say your prayer??

Say the freaking prayers, your faith would be fine.