Re: Bond between Allah and Banda.
I see logic in your THIS post but I don't see how it relates to religion vs. atheism debate. We don't need 100% proof to make sensible decisions yet** you refer to religion to make almost all of your decisions, I don't.
If you and I arrive at the same results using two different approaches, how does it make mine wrong but yours right? It's not a question of hard empirical evidence but of morality and common sense. One doesn't need any guidance from a higher power to make sensible decisions. If someone does, then I question their intelligence.
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That's THE difference of opinion. Using your logic, one can easily come to the conclusion that hijab is either wajib or not wajib. When one doesn't know what needs to be covered and what's not and a million mouths are telling you different things, you are likely to do what suits you best.
You missed my point. WHY allow four wives to begin with? Especially if circumstances/cultures couldn't remain the same all throughout time. This perhaps applied to a certain era but keeping fours wives today would seem unbelievably cruel and immoral.
What he said is also plagiarized to the MAX!
Duh' What do you expect? I don't just see Islamic prophecies, I see a million other prophecies being thrown left and right froma all different religions and somehow they all believe they have been fulfilled. You can't reason here.
LOL, you see it that way because you are reading it with your religious delusional/magical glasses on. Again, you believe it is the truth. If I believed a children's book held the ultimate truth, I would see unbelievable beauty in it too. All about perspective...
just as I expected. The moment a religious person tells me "you misunderstood, it's not this but that, your logic is flawed" I stop arguing with them. YOU SEE IT AS THE ULTIMATE TRUTH HENCE YOU SEE NO MISTAKES. I see it as any other book (not a well written one either) and I can SEE the contradictions and all the mistakes you fail to see.
It's an excuse to make all the contradictions seem like they are not contradictions. I have already said this before, it's a work-around.
I don't think you can see it from my perspective and perhaps I can't see it from yours. Our argument about LOGIC doesn't answer OP's question about bond between God and man. I am still very much interested in discussing the original topic. We are getting carried away with little details- some are completely irrelevant.
LOGIC still doesn't explain why one believes in God and one doesn't. This goes beyond logic. Perhaps something genetic/psychological?
Peace Theorist
Thanks for the reply ...
You state that I refer to most of my decisions to be made by religion and that you don't and then what I do is not logical ... It is logical if you believe that your religion comes from God and that God knows you better than yourself and that God is the Most Wise and Loves us more than 70 mothers. I feel if this was the case I would use religion to help me form most if not all of my decisions.
You ask the question of same results by different means and why one should be wrong and the other right ... Well this can be tested ...
Let's say I didn't have any money in my pocket - I walked in to a Bank and walked out loaded with cash ... I did it this way:
a) Used my account debit card and made a withdrawal
b) I held up a gun and asked for money ...
Same results different ways ... I hope this point demonstrate that **BOTH **the means and the methods are important when it comes to our actions.
The next assertion is that "One does not need any guidance from a higher power to make sensible decisions"
- So now this is your claim that we can't answer until we have agreed on certain things ...
a) What is a sensible decision?
b) What is guidance?
c) How would we know guidance is being given or not given?
Let cut the chase and instead of asking ourselves the question of "how to screw in a light bulb" do we need guidance yes or no ... but let's talk about "driving a car" perhaps do we need "lessons?" - Or how about traffic lights - are they not guidance? Or street lights in the night time are they not guidance? In fact every piece of machinery that I can buy these days comes with some sort of instruction or guidance - how about taking medicine? Oh... the dosage information ... that is guidance ... isn't it? How about street maps? Satellite navigations systems, tutorials for software packages ... search engines .... discussion forums ...
I think it is sensible to conclude there are not very many things we do in life without guidance ... but then why faith? Why should we choose to resort to common sense when it comes to our lives and possible prospects of life's source itself ... "where did we come from? where are we going?" these questions cannot be answered by "common sense" ... if someone does then I question their intelligence (copyright - Theorist).
Regarding hijab - one cannot come to a conclusion regarding the basis of hijab - it is what the scholars have agreed upon that we accept ... Hijab is wajib in ALL schools ... however there are differences in what "hijab" itself is ...
The majority opinion states that it is a combination of attire and behaviour ... both of which need to be in place ... Showing the parts of our bodies that are luring and attract unhealthy attention is not considered hijab and more than making a display to draw attention if the body is fully covered ... the khimar is a scarf ... hijab is not an item of clothing. People falsely call the khimar a hijab these days.
Now despite this ... even these laws can be relaxed and tightened ... the reason is based on ijtehad ... of the circumstances ... now a person who is nearly goign to die and has a bacon sandwich next to him ... he can eat it ... to save his life ... although pork is haram in the general sense ... it becomes momentarily acceptable to eat it to serve another end. Some people fail to see this dynamic when they set-up Shari'ah law but in reality this is what is required.
Regarding polygamy - Islam recommends having only one wife - but it allows up to four - you question "why" ... this question is not a logical refutation as it does not show the fallacy of multiple wives ... however ... your refutation for it is that "today it is cruel and immoral" ... I fail to see how marrying a woman which involves promising to provide her shelter, money, clothing, comfort, sexual companionship and friendship is a cruel thing ... and if multiple wives is immoral then so is having one wife ... or are you saying that we have to follow standard that you want me to follow ... ??? And if so what is that standard? And where can I find it and see it for myself? And reflect on our earlier discussion regarding common sense ... why does common sense seem to evade us in such easy matters?
Regarding plagarism of our dear prophet Muhammad (SAW) ... simple request ... please prove he plagarised anything ...
Regarding the perfection of the Arabic - It is proof because it is scientific - one can analyse all languages and you'll find Arabic is simply mathematically brilliant ... What you said about Arabic being my perseption and not a reality then it proves how much you do not know especially about languages ...
Regarding contradictions - these are part of the study of logic ... definition - a thing can only be said to be in contradiction when
a) You have established it is the same thing
b) The same time
c) The same context
But you arrive at opposing conclusions ...
For example ... 500 horses went to the mayor's fair in 1811 vs 600 horses went to the mayor's fair in 1811 ... this is not a contradiction ... please explain why ... ???
You feel I can't see it from your perspective ... but the fact is I can ... It is due to the language of Arabic that enables me to see it from your perspective ...
The word is called "kufr" - means to deny or reject or cover or hide ... and this is basis from what you see ... you look for reasons to reject and when you find them you reject and that satisfies you ... even if those reasons themselves are not really reasons at all.
