Blending banking and Islam

I always thought Islam disallowed a Muslim to take interest on a loan, though paying interest to someone you borrowed from is a totally different story. Because there is nothing you can do about it, as it's the person (or company) giving the loan sets the terms, it's their money. Muslims are cautioned to not take loan where they have to pay back by interest but it's not prohibited.

Secondly, after the ruling from Al-Azhar scholars, I thought most Muslims will change their mind, but I guess not.

Lastly, buying something for $10 which was worth $5, because you don't wanna pay fixed interest which will take the price tag to $7 is going against the spirit of Islam all together. Prohibition of interest was to protect the poor, so they do not become debaters for generations. And it was done not only to make Muslims financially independent but also to avoid wars, as outrageous interests have been a prominent reasons for nations to go to war against other nations. It's not some artificial law based on no compromise or relevance to finance. To avoid the name 'interest' but collect double the profit is hypocrisy & to do such a business on religious terms is immoral.

^ that is an anachronistic notion. Interest by itself is an instrument of finance. What started out as a noble concept in Islam, a practice to limit usury, turned into a misdirected notion.

If pakistan defaults tomorrow and needs to borrow on a short term basis, who will it go to? Islam or IMF?

Just to add another article on the issue :slight_smile:

Islamic banking holds mainstream appeal

Islamic financial products are few and far between in the UK, but their ethical credentials mean that they may be attractive to a wide spectrum of consumers, says Mark Tran

Monday May 27, 2002

About three million Muslims live in Britain, but so far they have had little opportunity to adopt banking practices which accord with Islamic tenets.
Only the United Bank of Kuwait - which maintains only one branch in the UK - offers Islamic banking products; odd, as Britain prides itself on offering innovative financial products.

It’s a relatively recent phenomenon, but Islamic banking is now an established facet of the financial landscape. Islamic banks emerged in the mid-1970s in Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates. Since then, Islamic financial institutions have spread to a large number of Muslim countries, including Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, Turkey, Pakistan and Indonesia.

These institutions have taken the form of commercial banks, investment banks, investment and finance companies and insurance companies. In all, Islamic financial institutions manage about $200bn (£137bn), with the sector growing approximately 15% a year.

At its core, Islamic banking prohibits the charging of interest, although some scholars in the US dispute this. Islam bars Muslims from taking or giving interest, known as riba, regardless of the purpose for which such loans are made and regardless of the rates at which interest is charged. In addition, Islam bans investments in alcohol, pork, gambling and pornography. Most Muslims would also object to investments in the financial service sector, as banks and insurers make their money from charging interest.

Hence, Islamic equity funds have tended to gravitate towards telecommunications and technology sectors, which was fine until the technology bubble burst two years ago. As a result, Islamic equity funds have shrunk to $3.3bn this year from $5.5bn in early 2000, according to Failaka International, a research group based in the US.

Despite the ban on interest, most Muslims in Britain have taken conventional interest-based mortgages. The total number of Muslim households as estimated by the Muslim Council of Britain is around 500,000. Of that number, about 40,000 families seek financing for home purchases each year; however, a large number of Muslims apparently still shun conventional mortgages because they do not conform to Islamic principles.

“There is pent-up demand,” said Iqbal Khan, chief executive office of Amanah Finance, HSBC’s Islamic banking arm, based in Dubai. “We have regularly received enquiries regarding the availability of Islamic finance products, in particular Islam-compatible finance to purchase both residential and commercial properties. The needs of these Muslims need to be served immediately.”

But Amanah Finance and the other banks interested in tapping Britain’s Islamic market face a number of regulatory issues that have to be settled before offering Islamic financial products such as home loans, current accounts, insurance and pensions in Britain.

Mortgages are one of the products most in demand but, under Islamic rules, the bank cannot charge interest for a loan to buy a house. Instead the homebuyer borrows nothing, but pays a rent instead, only some of which will go straight to the bank. In effect, the customer signs a lease with the bank. But under current regulations on lease agreements, the product has to be 100% risk weighted. In other words, Amanah Finance says, it has to set aside the full amount of the property to cover the full value of the house in case the buyer cannot afford to pay the rent, whereas a conventional mortgage has a risk weighting of only 50%.

Another impediment for Islamic banks is the prospect of double stamp duty. The first would arise when ownership is transferred from the seller to the bank at the start of the lease. The second would occur at the end of the lease when ownership is transferred from the bank to they buyer. For an Islamic mortgage to be viable for a bank, the bank needs to be exempted from the second set of stamp duty.

Finally, unlike a conventional mortgage, the proposed product would require two sets of solicitors - one for the beginning and one for the end of the lease - thereby making the product more expensive. So Islamic institutions would also want an exemption from a second set of solicitors.

Discussions have been taking place with the Bank of England and the financial services authority (FSA) on these issues and Mr Khan is confident that they will be resolved in time so that Amanah Finance can begin offering Islamic financial products this later this year. That is not inconceivable as the regulatory authorities have already approved Islamic mortgages in the US.

Mr Khan believes that Islamic finance potentially has appeal for the mainstream as well as Muslim consumers because of its ethical basis.

“Islam teaches us that money should be channelled toward the ‘real’ economy, the production of real goods and services and not the ‘financial’ economy such as hedge funds and derivatives,” he argues. “It keeps us in touch with the real economy and away from speculation.”

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
What do you guys think of the Modaraba system?

Let's say I need tractors for my farm. The tractors cost me 100,000 something...I would go to the Modaraba and tell them that I need tractors and they are costing me 100,000 something.

The Modaraba will tell me, OK, we will buy the tractors for you, but we will sell it to you for 120,000 for 5 years, 130,000 for 6, 140,000 for 7 and so on...

But, the amount that I will have to pay will neither decrease nor increase...

I am not sure about the penalties though as I didn't look into it in detail...
[/QUOTE]

i thiught that the concept u mentioned about modarba is actually ... IJARAH?...........correct me if iam wrong

Guys and dolls: this is plain stup*d. Someone lends you money and needs to be compensated for it. That's interest. Just like you want to be paid for the labor you provide to you employer. Capital, labor, materials all cost money.

You can either let your religion become progressively irrelevant to real life by hanging on to such unnecessary edicts or update the religion and be benefitted by the philosophy and moral code which is what a religion is supposed to bring you.

Life doesn't come with a manual but you guys want to see religion as step by step instructions!

And it is plain hypocricy. How many of you in GS have not gotten interest on bank deposits? Come on, don't lie !

** Someone lends you money and needs to be compensated for it.**

I thought thats called making a profit:)

Why is making a profit for services allowed except for banking? It seems like this is one of those outdated rules of the 7th century when honorable lending practices did not exist. Does that mean if barbers were demanding 2 camels and your first born son for a haircut in the 7th century that someone charging a reasonable fee for a haircut today would be haram? An example of the updating of the Quran is the elimination of slavery which was allowed but the modern world now forbids it.

Why is making a profit for services allowed except for banking?

First off all, I personally don't consider loaning someone money as a service but an investment. From the Islamic jurisprudence that I have read, it is declared that if money is loaned to someone then a fixed amount of interest in return cannot be demanded. Investment by it's nature is risky which sometimes result in profit and sometimes in loss. All such investment where the person (or company) giving the loan contracts for only profit would eliminate risk & all such business is considered immoral. One can ask for the same amount of money in return without an interest or have a contract where a certain %age of profit from that investment can be shared but the losses will also be shared.

In other words, the business of loaning (investing) money where a fixed profit in return is termed mandatory is prohibited. Investment in all other ways is encouraged as the next big financial immorality is to pile up your money like a miser. Dare I say Muslims are encouraged to spend & be consumers!

Now, I am sure there are other Islamic jurisprudence that disagrees with the above and I am by no means an expert on economy or Islamic law.

Though looking around in the American society & the number of CC debts & other interest related financial problems, I find the Islamic teachings that caution against interest a breath of fresh air. Many economists who can't think of a system without interest or inflation would strongly disagree.

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Zakk: *
*
Someone lends you money and needs to be compensated for it.**

I thought thats called making a profit:)
[/QUOTE]

No, it's called interest at a specific loan level. Part of it may be profit after paying for the banker's salaries, fat bonus check, the security guard and the cute tellers.

ahmadjee, that breath of fresh air is from the 7th century. Money is not a static thing. Opportunity costs of capital have not been determined in the islamic system because people essentially traded in commodoties. Lending based on interest make money itself an instrument of trade.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ahmadjee: *
First off all, I personally don't consider loaning someone money as a service but an investment.
...............
Though looking around in the American society & the number of CC debts & other interest related financial problems, I find the Islamic teachings that caution against interest a breath of fresh air. Many economists who can't think of a system without interest or inflation would strongly disagree.
[/QUOTE]

1) What matters is what the loaner and loanee think about the loan. Not what some hadith says

2) Why is it always extremes? usury is different from business. How do you expect an old widow to survive if she cannot get interest from her late husband's bank deposits?