Re: Blasphemy Law
But it's not ridiculous. And the question still stands.
I respectfully disagree.
Re: Blasphemy Law
Is it so hard to imagine that a law which calls for the death of those who insult a religion, which in most cases is Islam, would lead zealots to go on a hateful rampage?
Well, yes. It is. The law simply makes no provision or excuses for that behavior. The law in no way suggests that if a person commits blasphemy, that person, their relatives, and immediate community need to pay the price. Nor is this behavior evident for non-Christians. I stand by what I said in other threads, this is a communal riot aimed at ethnic cleansing. India has no law of this nature, yet we see the same behavior.
It's stretching credibility that any law could explain lawless behavior. And what we hear of exactly that....lawless behavior.
Does the law contribute to an atmosphere of hate? No. Repealing the law would. It would neccessarily allow for the denigration of sacred figures and texts. Yes, Islam in particular (so what?). Does the law target Christians in particualr? No. Has this law every actually been misused? Yes. Many times. Are there legal remedies? Yes.
Was there incitement? Yes. Always, in cases like this. Was it a rush to defend or implement this particular law? No. As per the law, the accusation against the Christian fellow would have simply saw his arrest and trial. What we saw was clearly not that.
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Never mind the fact that the man was wrongly accused. This is what you're not getting: the law provides justification which inevitably results in escalation.
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The writ of the law provides no such justification.
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What if the normal response to a religious offense was a fine? Or perhaps a law suit?
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Or no law at all? The same result.
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The masses are idiotic, and this applies to the majority in every part of the world. They will swim in the ocean that's created for them. If you consider the murder of blasphemer to be just, and a cause for praise, then the average idiot goes on a rampage because that's what the culture, judicial system, state, and molvi saab have taught him.
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You're getting warmer! Most other countries call this incitement. And it's usually across ethnic lines. It doesn't take mundane laws, or religious sentiments, or any such thing. It takes a systematic and prolonged prodding and goading...we see this all over Africa, and we see it on the subcontinent.
We need more laws. Very strict anti-incitement laws.
Re: Blasphemy Law
I respectfully disagree.
Well, that was most stimulating. Thank you. Good day.
Re: Blasphemy Law
Well, that was most stimulating. Thank you. Good day.
Yes it was. You are welcome. And you have a very nice day too.
Best regards.
Re: Blasphemy Law
Are you talking about the Christians? And so how do you justify the Shia minority who are victims of mass genocide so often? Are they ridiculing and mocking the Sunni's? Yeah, I'm sure they got what they deserved for that.
That wasn't just for Christians, it was for everyone. I never said anything about Shias. The ones that are killing them for no valid reason are planning to divide the ummah.
Re: Blasphemy Law
Which law in india should be repealed to stop such attacks…?
Just listen to the speech of hindu nationalist talking proudly about muslim massacre in different riots…while crowd is applauding and whistling..
answer is no law…because we have developed a mob mentality in india and pakistan…
when ever there is a mob then there are chances that a lot of them will behave insanely…
just remember brutal killings of two brothers at the hand of mob in siayalkot
Re: Blasphemy Law
Blasphemy laws do not cause such violence, it is the mobso goes the logic put forth by some.
guns don't kill people, people kill people, so goes the logic put forth by the NRA.
Respectfuday,
Good day.
Re: Blasphemy Law
Blasphemy laws do not cause such violence, it is the mobso goes the logic put forth by some. guns don't kill people, people kill people, so goes the logic put forth by the NRA.
Respectfuday,
Good day.
just look at the record of riots taking place in india...which law forces such attacks...?
Re: Blasphemy Law
just look at the record of riots taking place in india...which law forces such attacks...?
You have a good point. You are the best person to answer this questionnaire:
I agree Modi et al are scum. I agree Gujarat was a shame.
Now the question:
Would you agree that mob hatred is fueled by religious hatred, promoted by the right wing in India?
Would you agree religious right wing thugs in India are mainly responsible for what Muslims have been subjected to?
Would you agree right wing religious fundamentalists in Pakistan are responsible for mob riotsin the name of religion?
Would you agree that in terms of frequency, such riots per capita are higher in Pakistan.
Would you agree life of several minorities in Pak turned upside down by blasphemy law.
Now allow me to apologize for the discrimination against Muslims in India. A sincere apology from the heart.
Re: Blasphemy Law
^ Damn autocorrect changed question to questionnaire. Just realized that there was more than one question. It all worked out!
Re: Blasphemy Law
You have a good point. You are the best person to answer this questionnaire:
I agree Modi et al are scum. I agree Gujarat was a shame.
Now the question:
Would you agree that mob hatred is fueled by religious hatred, promoted by the right wing in India? Would you agree religious right wing thugs in India are mainly responsible for what Muslims have been subjected to? Would you agree right wing religious fundamentalists in Pakistan are responsible for mob riotsin the name of religion? Would you agree that in terms of frequency, such riots per capita are higher in Pakistan. Would you agree life of several minorities in Pak turned upside down by blasphemy law.
Now allow me to apologize for the discrimination against Muslims in India. A sincere apology from the heart.
i agree with some of your points but do not agree that pakistan have riuots per capita in pakistan are higher in india.....
tell me you know about this lahore riot right but do you know about dhulia riot?hyderabad riot?assom riot?pusad riot?
Re: Blasphemy Law
i agree with some of your points but do not agree that pakistan have riuots per capita in pakistan are higher in india.....
tell me you know about this lahore riot right but do you know about dhulia riot?hyderabad riot?assom riot?pusad riot?
Mere dost, the only reason I know about the Lahore riots is I am a member of this forum. Else I wont know about Lahore riots also.
I don't get Indian channels here. Whatever news I get is from WSJ. US TV does not report much. I go tobrediff maybe once in 6 months. Don't talk politics with Indian colleagues or acquaintances here. Don't talk politics with relatives when I visit. Parents don't talk politics. So no. I don't know about those riots.
Ab aapney bol dia, pr capita Pak (religious based) riots not higher per capita than India. I have no basis to dispute it. I assume you meant religious based riots, correct?
Peace.
Re: Blasphemy Law
Mere dost, the only reason I know about the Lahore riots is I am a member of this forum. Else I wont know about Lahore riots also.
I don't get Indian channels here. Whatever news I get is from WSJ. US TV does not report much. I go tobrediff maybe once in 6 months. Don't talk politics with Indian colleagues or acquaintances here. Don't talk politics with relatives when I visit. Parents don't talk politics. So no. I don't know about those riots.
Ab aapney bol dia, pr capita Pak (religious based) riots not higher per capita than India. I have no basis to dispute it. I assume you meant religious based riots, correct?
Peace.
yes i was talking about communal riots...
Re: Blasphemy Law
yes i was talking about communal riots...
By the way, we are planning to reopen our Nuggets Dept. Hope you stop by and visit with our staff. We are letting go of some of the political beat reporters.
Re: Blasphemy Law
I just want to start by saying that there are two issues being discussed here, the recent riot and its relation to the law, and the general validity, necessity, and effectiveness of the law.
Well, yes. It is. The law simply makes no provision or excuses for that behavior. The law in no way suggests that if a person commits blasphemy, that person, their relatives, and immediate community need to pay the price. Nor is this behavior evident for non-Christians. I stand by what I said in other threads, this is a communal riot aimed at ethnic cleansing. India has no law of this nature, yet we see the same behavior.
It's stretching credibility that any law could explain lawless behavior. And what we hear of exactly that....lawless behavior.
Does the law contribute to an atmosphere of hate? No. Repealing the law would. It would neccessarily allow for the denigration of sacred figures and texts. Yes, Islam in particular (so what?). Does the law target Christians in particualr? No. Has this law every actually been misused? Yes. Many times. Are there legal remedies? Yes.
Was there incitement? Yes. Always, in cases like this. Was it a rush to defend or implement this particular law? No. As per the law, the accusation against the Christian fellow would have simply saw his arrest and trial. What we saw was clearly not that.
You're missing the point. Letter of the law vs spirit of the law. It does not call for communal carnage but the law provides legal justification for hatred. Which is ironic, given that more humane laws are ignored (hence the repeated mention of changing behaviour as well). When the law was implemented in the 70's, was it done to protect Muslims who were under constant attack for their beliefs or was it implemented to target minorities? In theory the law is supposed to apply equally to all religions, in practice it's not. How often do you think someone from a religious minority successfully charges a Muslim with blasphemy? What if an Ahmedi tried to sue a Sunni for insulting their (the Ahmedi's) belief? Whatever you think about Ahmedis and their religion, it is what they believe and technically, someone questioning the validity of their prophet is committing blasphemy.
And yes, removing the law would indeed result in increased hate...for the wrong reason. Kind of like how banning slavery resulted in the Civil War in the US. In the long term, a progressive society needs to protect the beliefs of all its citizens. If an atheist debates a Muslim, I'm sure that, technically, blasphemy will be committed by the atheist. Should they be charged? Or should people who don't believe in Islam, or any religion, just GTFO of Pakistan? **Hence, the need to differentiate between blasphemy and hate speech. **Almost all religions consider the questioning of their doctrine to be blasphemy. It is absurdly easy to "sue" someone for this, and I use quotes because the reality is that the person will be intimidated and threatened with physical violence.
And lastly, the law is not solely responsible for the attack but it is a contributing factor. The problem starts with the judiciary system. When judges and politicians believe that blasphemy should be punished, they create, or back, laws that do just that. This trickles down to the mob which learns that such behaviour is tolerated by the authorities. The law creates a culture of intolerance given its history of application primarily against minorities.
So we're talking about two things here: 1) whether this law directly resulted in this particular riot (no, but it did indirectly) and 2) whether the blasphemy law at its core is necessary, and is able to provide protection for all beliefs (no it doesn't because there is no imminent surge of anti-religious speech ready to burst in Pakistan, and when two beliefs conflict with each other, and both can be considered blasphemy, the law will always favour the majority, i.e. Sunni Islam).
I'm absolutely shocked that you think a blasphemy law protects anybody. I would love to see cases, in Pakistan, where someone was harassed for their beliefs, and was able to successfully sue the defendant for blasphemy. Hate speech, incitement, and a myriad of other laws provide a much more balanced and subtle approach to judicial matters concerning protection of religion.
Re: Blasphemy Law
i agree with some of your points but do not agree that pakistan have riuots per capita in pakistan are higher in india.....
tell me you know about this lahore riot right but do you know about dhulia riot?hyderabad riot?assom riot?pusad riot?
I know about these riots. These are disgusting. Carried out by animals in guise of humans. But what ur point is? Do U feel that any law is responsible for these riots? Do U feel that education system is responsible for that? Do U feel that oppression of any community is responsible for that?
And do u feel that ppls dying in India due to these riots and religious hatred are higher in number than in Pakistan?
PLz let me know that if U feel affirmative to any of them. Than only we can carry our talk forward.
Re: Blasphemy Law
Which law in india should be repealed to stop such attacks...?
Just listen to the speech of hindu nationalist talking proudly about muslim massacre in different riots....while crowd is applauding and whistling..
answer is no law...because we have developed a mob mentality in india and pakistan....
when ever there is a mob then there are chances that a lot of them will behave insanely....
just remember brutal killings of two brothers at the hand of mob in siayalkot
Absolutely correct stuff. But million dollar question is, Why we have developed the mob mentality in India? Forget Pakistan for a while.
Let me make my views clear to U. Its wrong interpretation of freedom of religion which provide required nutrition to this mob mentality to develop.
Its over dose of religion which encourage this mob mentality.
And some of like-minded friends of mine say that mobs should be welcomed by bullets irrespective of any bias, while I differ with them and prescribe use of big and strong lathis on them, brutally though.
What is ur take on this?
Re: Blasphemy Law
i do not blame religion for mob mentality…mob mentality is developed due to poor law and order situation…
even group 70 or 80 men molested girls in mumbai…now tell me which part of any religion gives permission to molest women…?
Two women molested in Mumbai on New Year - Economic Times
now which religion we should blame for such kind of behavior…?
people assume that in a mob they can commit any crime without fear of legal punishment..
Re: Blasphemy Law
I know about these riots. These are disgusting. Carried out by animals in guise of humans. But what ur point is? Do U feel that any law is responsible for these riots? Do U feel that education system is responsible for that? Do U feel that oppression of any community is responsible for that?
And do u feel that ppls dying in India due to these riots and religious hatred are higher in number than in Pakistan?
PLz let me know that if U feel affirmative to any of them. Than only we can carry our talk forward.
are we talking about suicide bombings or that kind of stuff here or about persecution of minority people by mob of majority?
Re: Blasphemy Law
Mere bhai, religion doesnt permit any wrong. But wrong interpretation of religion does. Mob who molest women doesnt have religion in their mind i agree. They have lust in their mind.
I was talking about mobs which go berserk on religious issues and take laws in their own hands. Many hindu and muslim extremists mobs have committed such crimes. At least these can be stopped.
Remember infamous incident in Guwahati last year where similar mob molested a girl? Havent the culprits been booked and put in jail?
And we can work on these issues by educating the ppls on human values, by raising our voices, and by alerting the authorities whenever these kind of incidents take place.