Re: Blasphemy Law
I think I'm missing something.
What section of the Pakistani penal code provides for a Muslim mob to raze a Christian village? Perhaps the learned people here can educate me.
Re: Blasphemy Law
I think I'm missing something.
What section of the Pakistani penal code provides for a Muslim mob to raze a Christian village? Perhaps the learned people here can educate me.
Respectfully, what is the use providing logical arguments if one cant see the ridiculousness of the law already?
Re: Blasphemy Law
B.Law = a tool in hands of wild monkeys. Every law in Pakistan broke by who have powers. and there is no law for poors or poweless. Zia ka tou beda gharaq hogeya may Allah uski baqiat ko bhi gharq kare. Ameen
Re: Blasphemy Law
I think I'm missing something.
What section of the Pakistani penal code provides for a Muslim mob to raze a Christian village? Perhaps the learned people here can educate me.
Is it so hard to imagine that a law which calls for the death of those who insult a religion, which in most cases is Islam, would lead zealots to go on a hateful rampage? Never mind the fact that the man was wrongly accused. This is what you're not getting: the law provides justification which inevitably results in escalation.
What if the normal response to a religious offense was a fine? Or perhaps a law suit? The masses are idiotic, and this applies to the majority in every part of the world. They will swim in the ocean that's created for them. If you consider the murder of blasphemer to be just, and a cause for praise, then the average idiot goes on a rampage because that's what the culture, judicial system, state, and molvi saab have taught him.
Furthermore, for those defending such laws, what do they provide society? If the law was removed today, would Pakistanis (the overwhelming majority of whom are Muslim) suddenly start insulting their religion?
Re: Blasphemy Law
Is it so hard to imagine that a law which calls for the death of those who insult a religion, which in most cases is Islam, would lead zealots to go on a hateful rampage? Never mind the fact that the man was wrongly accused. This is what you're not getting: the law provides justification which inevitably results in escalation.
What if the normal response to a religious offense was a fine? Or perhaps a law suit? The masses are idiotic, and this applies to the majority in every part of the world. They will swim in the ocean that's created for them. If you consider the murder of blasphemer to be just, and a cause for praise, then the average idiot goes on a rampage because that's what the culture, judicial system, state, and molvi saab have taught him.
Furthermore, for those defending such laws, what do they provide society?** If the law was removed today, would Pakistanis (the overwhelming majority of whom are Muslim) suddenly start insulting their religion?**
If the law was removed today, would the incident wherin the Christians' properties vandalized not have happened. It is the mentality that has to change. Changing the law might help, but unless something is done about the upbringing nothing can change.
Re: Blasphemy Law
I think I'm missing something.
What section of the Pakistani penal code provides for a Muslim mob to raze a Christian village? Perhaps the learned people here can educate me.
Yes U are, U are missing how ur children are educated in terms of religion. Find the flaw in the religious-education system, and gradually U will come out of this mess. Wrong education and wrong laws works wonders as in case of Pakistan.
Re: Blasphemy Law
It is not the law but mentality of people responsible for such extra judicial killings.....
murders of couples by khap panchayat
murders due to road rage
murder and riots taking place in india are also example of such mentality...why blame blasphemy law....
I agree. But plz find out why there are murders and road rage incidents only in India? Why not elsewhere? Why only Indians have this kind of murderous mentality? any idea? plz let me know.
And no one is blaming blasphemy laws here, everyone is blaming idiotic death penalty which acts as fuel to religiously-blind mind and gives him justification to kill the supposed accused.
Re: Blasphemy Law
If the law was removed today, would the incident wherin the Christians' properties vandalized not have happened. It is the mentality that has to change. Changing the law might help, but unless something is done about the upbringing nothing can change.
If you read my earlier posts, I agree that it's the mentality that needs to change. Looting and burning is irrational behaviour. Removing the catalysts for said behaviour, including the law, would be step in the right direction.
I ask again, would removing the law result in increased attacks on religion?
Re: Blasphemy Law
Just a on liner...
JO UMAT KA GHADAR HAI
WO MOUT KA HAQDAAR HAI.....
Re: Blasphemy Law
If you read my earlier posts, I agree that it's the mentality that needs to change. Looting and burning is irrational behaviour. Removing the catalysts for said behaviour, including the law, would be step in the right direction.
I ask again, would removing the law result in increased attacks on religion?
I agree with you and I repeat my earlier question...Would it have helped if the law did not exist. Would'nt the riots still have taken place. Repealing a law just for the sake of it is not going to make any difference. I understand that the law can be misused, but it can be misused only if a judicial process is followed.
Re: Blasphemy Law
^ If the law had been repealed a few decades ago, then yes, perhaps the recent incident wouldn't have taken place. Repealing it today might prevent similar incidents in the future. The thing is, there are external forces (militants, Saudis, US presence) that contribute to people becoming fundamentalist. If you combine that with laws that are easily abused, you get modern Pakistan.
Re: Blasphemy Law
It is obvious that mentality should change. But the law, which encourages death to those who are blasphemous, should also be removed. One can walk and chew gum at the same time.
It is foolish to ask if the law were to be abolished would this have been prevented. Probably not. But it lays the groundwork tot mitigating future incidents, be they 10 or 20 yrs down the road. That is called vision.
Respectfully.
Re: Blasphemy Law
Blasphemy law is causing Pakistani society more harm than good. It has promoted intolerance and violence. Today's incident in Lahore is a proof of that.
Whats your take on it? It has to be either revamped to protect misuse or abolished completely
second question: does anybody have the guts to do it?
Such laws were need of rulers and priests to control masses at will.
There is no place for such laws in islam. The reason is, islam is all about peaceful, progressive and prosperous human society. Such people do not need to insult the very ideology that gives them that basis for society and as for animal like people who have no sense how to live peacefully and progress and be prosperous. You cannot force them to live like good human beings. They need good education to be good human beings.
Even in ordinary sense, muslims are not going to insult their own book or prophet and if nonmuslims do that in their own countries then against law serves no good purpose.
yet another way to to look at this law is through what muslims did or do to nonmuslims. The idea is that if you do something to any one else and one feels you have done him wrong that he will give you as good as he gets and that includes abuse. In that case it is fault of muslims of they do wrong to others and they react to that. This is like you slap someone and he throws abuse at your whole family. This cannot be stopped no matter what unless the person doing wrong to someone stopped doing that.
So this law serves no useful purpose at all. If anything it means muslims cannot defend their divine stance rationally that they fall back on laws like this to protect their nonsense stance. So the sooner this law is gotten rid of the better.
Re: Blasphemy Law
What I know is that its a man-made law. And should/can be refined for proper use. Would always love to be corrected though.
What I meant by "knowledgeable" was that have you studied Islam properly? Do you know classical arabic? do you know the science of ahadith? How many scholars were/are your teachers?
These fiqh issues are dangerous. We shouldn't be talking about them if we lack proper knowledge. We can study and THEN make a decision :)
Re: Blasphemy Law
blasphemy law is a joke, it has no place in society.. how do you justify killing minorities and not speaking up. whilst i agree that it's the mentality of people, the law provides a haven for jaahils to kill for the sake of religion and play God. i don't know what kind of superiority complex some pakistanis have that encourages them to go on a hating/killing rampage.
Islam allows freedom of speech but not freedom to insult anyone. We are not allowed to make fun or pass inappropriate comments about other people's religion. They should respect our religion too. Nobody is stopping minorities to speak up, but there should be limits. If they want to discuss/criticize in a proper manner, its fine. Just don't make fun of others faith.
Re: Blasphemy Law
Blasphemy law is against what Quran says (its existence is complete in denial of Quran). Actually, to have such law and follow such law is sin. Couple of years ago, I wrote on this forum where I quoted Quran to show that Blasphemy law is un-Islamic, but present day Muslims are such that they do not believe on Quran but believe on what their Shaitanic Guru in the name of Islam tells them.
These so-called Muslims are so ignorant that if they were in place of Iblis (Shatan) and Allah would have asked them to do Sajda to Adam (AS), they would have rejected command of Allah and would say that they are not Mushrik that they would do Sajdah to Adam (AS) … without even realising that Sajda to Adam (AS) was not Sajda-e-Ibadah but Sajdah-e-Tazeem that Allah wanted Angels and Iblis to perform.
Behaviour and beliefs of these so-called Muslims shows the nature of their fitna that was predicted to happen during last days before Qiyamah. Because of these followers of Shaitan, world have started considering Islam as 'religion of hate and terrorism’ instead of ‘religion of love and tolerance’.
Here is post that I wrote couple of years ago on Blasphemy law.
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-scripture/474631-blasphemy-as-per-quran-2.html#post7960311
Re: Blasphemy Law
Islam allows freedom of speech but not freedom to insult anyone. We are not allowed to make fun or pass inappropriate comments about other people's religion. They should respect our religion too. Nobody is stopping minorities to speak up, but there should be limits. If they want to discuss/criticize in a proper manner, its fine. Just don't make fun of others faith.
Are you talking about the Christians? And so how do you justify the Shia minority who are victims of mass genocide so often? Are they ridiculing and mocking the Sunni's? Yeah, I'm sure they got what they deserved for that.
Re: Blasphemy Law
Which begs the question: why are these laws interpreted in such an extreme manner in Pakistan, but not in countries like the UK (which I believe, technically, has a state religion and blasphemy law). As always, it's a combination of things, but it should be noted that extremism was promoted in Pakistan. It's not a popular, or well known fact but Pakistan was created with the consent of the British, i.e. Churchill. Now why would a racist imperialist want to help Muslims? He didn't. He realized that India could become a powerful country, which, if it had a large Muslim population, would have cultural ties to the Middle East and its resources. Pakistan was meant to act as a check to India, and even though Pakistan had better economic policies in the 60's (it could have been where South Korea and Canada are today), India and Pakistan's ridiculous feud has kept both countries in turmoil. Furthermore, Wahhabis and the US government, with the help of the Pakistani army, systematically eliminated religious leaders who preached tolerance and moderate interpretations of Islam.
My point is that other countries have meddled in Pakistan's affairs since its creation, and our people have foolishly sold the state out and allowed themselves to be manipulated.
I enjoyed reading this. Interesting perspective and I'd agree with most of it including the meddling from other nations. But the sad truth is, one way or another (including reasons you mentioned), courts have failed the people of Pakistan repeatedly. When courts fail to do their job, people take things into their own hands in whatever slighted way they understand justice and legalities to mean. For this reason I find discussing laws of the country a little ironic. There's little appliance of these laws and seems all ad hoc. So try eradicating the blasphemy law and see if behaviours change in the people. I think we all know the answer to that.
Re: Blasphemy Law
Yes U are, U are missing how ur children are educated in terms of religion. Find the flaw in the religious-education system, and gradually U will come out of this mess. Wrong education and wrong laws works wonders as in case of Pakistan.
No, don't see it. has nothing to do with the law. However, you are correct in what you say.
Re: Blasphemy Law
Respectfully, what is the use providing logical arguments if one cant see the ridiculousness of the law already?
But it's not ridiculous. And the question still stands.