Bilour proposes confederation of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan!!!

[the_kaur]

Re: Bilour proposes confederation of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan!!!

@The_Jinx

You did not get my question, did you? I think you should get some knowledge about Sind Taas agreement of India and Pakistan in 1960 and how rivers were distributed among the two countries. Once you know the details, look who is attacking the water resources of which country and controlling it without giving respect to an agreement it did with other country. This is our (pakistani) bad fortune that our leaders are shameless selfish dummies who do not have guts to raise their voice in accordance with the demand of public.

without reading Snd Taas agreement I assume that India is at fault, but if pakistan is really serious it should send ace of the pack(Generals) not jokers(politicians) of Pakistan:), Your fortune is bad because your choice is bad,India is existential threat to Pakistan the best way to deal with existential threat is to avoid it not to attack it in 48,65 and 71 just to get defeated:)

@The_Jinx

@ the bold part.

1. You do not even know the first war was not in 47 but in 48
2. Go see who attacked Pakistan on September 11, 1947, the day Jinnah died, and captured pakistani area of Juna Garrh?
3. Pakistan was never defeated in 65 or 99. In 65, when indians enter near Lahore, when they ran back, they were picking up bullets from their behind. The whole indian tanked army (the biggest after second world war) were defeated at Sialkot with majority of tanks blasted away by those unsung heroes in Pak Army who did not care about their life and laid down in front of the tanks with bombs on their chest. In 99, there was no defeat, Pakistan was on the higher ridge of Kargil. Pakistan just backed out due to pathetic leadership after India went crying to UN. Nothing was gained by either country in 99. Bottom line is India and Pakistan both can not afford war any longer but India should realize that it should stop acting like a crying baby and accuse Pakistan of state terrorism any time Pakistan raise the real issue of water sharing.

None of the disputed area were either Indian or Pakistani before public decides it:), why label kashmir, pakistan before Kashmiris are given chance even, and why only Kashmiris should be given chance why not Jammuites, Baltistani,Laddakhis too?? Kashmir is integral part of India. Your country sponsor terrorism in India, Musharraf openly said in agra those dehshatgards because of whom my family moved out of Kashmir, Jang-e-Azadi ke sipahi, if you really wish to get Kashmir in hard way, you won’t get it:D. Your Hafiz Saeed recently said that after Kabul they will come to Kashmir. “Poore kashmir mein douda douda kar marege isko bhi:D”

Your General Ayub Khan launched Operation Giberaltor first, to release pressure from Akhnoor India attacked in Punjab, your forces lost Battle of Asal Uttar and certain lt musharraf was with the artillery division at khemkaran, please don’t tell me we attacked you in 47/48 and in 1965 Half of the pakistan tank were lost in Asal Uttar, India even captured Haji Peer Pass, not a single independent military expert would subscribe that you won 65 just like one muslim is equal to 10 effete hindus:D I know India lost battle of Chawinda:)
Victory is political by design, millitary battle is just one way to achieve political victory.

@rangoli

thats correct:k:, occupation of hyderabad state and Junagadh by India were one of the reasons which further flamed Kashmir situation and triggered the war. Junagadh was connecting with Pakistan coastlines, and keeping this factor in mind, Nawab of Junagadh decided to accede to Pakistan, and the instrument of accession was accepted by Pakistan, but India could not accept this decision, hence they blocked Junagadh and invaded it!, later on when Liaquat ali Khan had met with Nehra to discuss Kashmir issue, he had pointed out that if Junagadh was occupied, just because it had hindu majority, then in that sense, Kashmir should definetly be part of Pakistan.

Junagarh was hindu mahority and has somnath temple even, Pakistan accepted instrument of accession because not only it was hindu majority but it also knew they will lose the battle. We invaded even Bangladesh too as covertly as you invaded in Kashmir 65:)

[system]

Re: Bilour proposes confederation of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan!!!

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[The_Jinx]

Re: Bilour proposes confederation of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan!!!

@the_kaur

without reading Snd Taas agreement I assume that** India is at fault**,

First of all, I appreciate your honesty in seeing that India is at fault. It was even at fault on wars.

@the_kaur

but if pakistan is really serious it should send ace of the pack(Generals) not jokers(politicians) of Pakistan, Your fortune is bad because your choice is bad,India is existential threat to Pakistan the best way to deal with existential threat is to avoid it not to attack it in **48,65 **and 71 just to get defeated

You are wrong about the defeats. I am ready to admit that india defeated Pakistan in 71 when they used Bangladesh and like a cunning enemy put the kinife at the back of Pakistan. What a beautiful neihbour India is In urdu it’s call “baghal mein churi, moo mein ram ram”

In 48, we captured back 1/3rd of Kashmir from India. Was India defeated or was Pakistan defeated?

In 65, we captured 300+ villages and a mass land of India and we genereously gave it back at cease fire because it was Indian land anyway. Was the conqouror defeated or the captured? By the way, India came into the borders of Pakistan and entered Lahore and Pakistan did not. Did Pakistan start the war by staying in their own country or by asking indians to come into Pakistan

@the_kaur

None of the disputed area were either Indian or Pakistani before public decides it:), why label kashmir, pakistan **before Kashmiris are given chance **even, and why only Kashmiris should be given chance why not Jammuites, Baltistani,Laddakhis too?? Kashmir is integral part of India:) Your country sponsor terrorism in India,

Hypocrisy at it’s best is evident when one says:

1. Let Kashmiris decide their fate but they are integral part of india. LOL What an arrogant and unfair logic. Only expected from India.

@the_kaur

Musharraf openly said in agra those deshatgard because of whom my family moved out of Kashmir,

Musharraf was himself the biggest terrorist, please don’t present him as an evidence. He is a liar and has lied through his teeth many a times. For references, his own book “in the line of fire” is evident. I have wasted my time in reading the book and I have put it in the comedy section of my home library;)

@the_kaur

Jang-e-Azadi ke sipahi, if you really wish to get Kashmir in hard way, you won’t get it:D.

we got 1/3 the hard way but we are looking forward, but not expecting, for India to agree for referrendum. The cowards would not do referrendum ever as they have avoided it for past 60 years. They know Kashmir is Muslim majoirty area and they will lose badly. Another hypocritic statement came when it was declared that it is ok for India to capture Juna Garrh because it was hindu majority area but not for Kashmir. What a biased and religiously discriminative mindset India has

@the_kaur

Your Hafiz Saeed recently said that after Kabul they will come to Kashmir. “Poore kashmir mein douda douda kar marege** isko bhi:D**”

Just like you have done with the residents of Kashmir. If it is integral part of India, what is 0.7 million army doing in Kashmir

@the_kaur

Your General Ayub Khan Operation Giberaltor first, to release pressure from Akhnoor India attacked in Punjab, your forces lost Battle of Asal Uttar and certain lt musharraf was with the artillery division at khemkaran, please don’t tell me we attacked you in 47/48 and in 1965:)

oh yes you did attack first. kaan khol kar sun lo.

@the_kaur

Junagarh was hindu mahority and has somnath temple even, Pakistan accepted instrument of accession because not only it was hindu majority

why it is not true for Kashmir when it is Muslim majority and Pakistani sides of rivers come from there? It’s natural to be part of Pakistan, if you look at the geology/geography of the region.

@the_kaur

but it also knew they will lose the battle just like they couldn’t capture SriNagar in 48 We invaded even Bangladesh too as covertly as you invaded in Kashmir 65:)

I wish you were an official of India saying that and admitting how cunningly you have done all that. At least, the whole world would have known that India is a savage who attack freedom of people.

PS, I’m surprised that a person of such hatred towards Pakistan is a moderator of a Pakistani representing website. It’s really a shame afterall.

[the_kaur]

Re: Bilour proposes confederation of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan!!!

First of all, I appreciate your honesty in seeing that India is at fault. It was even at fault on wars.

Clarify how India was responsible far 65 war, for example, or kargil 99:)

You are wrong about the defeats. I am ready to admit that india defeated Pakistan in 71 when they used Bangladesh and like a cunning enemy put the kinife at the back of Pakistan. What a beautiful neihbour India is In urdu it's call "baghal mein churi, moo mein ram ram"

It is hindi phrase, Ram is hindu god:), of course you launched gureilla war in Kashmir, we did in bangladesh, it is called tasting the same treatment that you tried giving to us, only thing is we defeated and achieved our objective:)

In 48, we captured back 1/3rd of Kashmir from India. Was India defeated or was Pakistan defeated?

Were stationed in Skardu?? and you don't have any territory of Kashmir, we have all the district, you hold gilgit-Baltistan, and jammu, there is nothing like Azad kashmir, we have control over entire ten district of Kashmir.

[quote="The_Jinx, post:22, topic:260002"]

In 65, we captured 300+ villages and a mass land of India and we genereously gave it back at cease fire because it was Indian land anyway. Was the conqouror defeated or the captured? By the way, India came into the borders of Pakistan and entered Lahore and Pakistan did not. Did Pakistan start the war by staying in their own country or by asking indians to come into Pakistan

India captured strategically important haji peer pass, i asked far any independent chronicler that agrees that pakistan won 65, and please don't quote John Fricker and Chuck Yeger:D
The covert operation was launched by general Ayub even Air Marshal Asghar Khan said in Interview:), Pakistani special forces were part of Giberaltor to incense Kashmiris and then to release pressure india invaded Punjab:), you provoked existential threat, read about it please. India did same with Bangladesh and succeeded in which you failed.

Hypocrisy at it's best is evident when one says:

1) Let Kashmiris decide their fate but they are integral part of india. LOL What an arrogant and unfair logic. Only expected from India.

of course, as I have to take side with Kashmiri pandits, Kashmir is integral part of India, but as Indian I personally want them to decide it:)

Musharraf was himself the biggest terrorist, please don't present him as an evidence. He is a liar and has lied through his teeth many a times. For references, his own book "in the line of fire" is evident. I have wasted my time in reading the book and I have put it in the comedy section of my home library

Whatever he was he represented Pakistan:) and my hubby was captured by these sponsored Dehshatgards for two weeks because he was pandit before Indian Army recovered him from these Punjabi jokers

we got 1/3 the hard way but we are looking forward, but not expecting, for India to agree for referrendum. The cowards would not do referrendum ever as they have avoided it for past 60 years. They know Kashmir is Muslim majoirty area and they will lose badly. Another hypocritic statement came when it was declared that it is ok for India to capture Juna Garrh because it was hindu majority area but not for Kashmir. What a biased and religiously discriminative mindset India has

Why Gazis need referendum now they can capture it from cowards through hard way, isn't it? India held SriNagar and your army of Gazis didn't acheive its political objective of capturing SriNagar. The battle was always ethnic, I will put it simply this is not 1947, if pandits won't get it, Muslims won't get it either:)

Just like you have done with the residents of Kashmir. If it is integral part of India, what is 0.7 million army doing in Kashmir ;-)

oh yes you did attack first. kaan khol kar sun lo.

why it is not true for Kashmir when it is Muslim majority and Pakistani sides of rivers come from there? It's natural to be part of Pakistan, if you look at the geology/geography of the region.

I wish you were an official of India saying that and admitting how cunningly you have done all that. At least, the whole world would have known that India is a savage who attack freedom of people.

These very children of god who taught my hubby and her only sister who died in captivity of Dehshatgards, didn't try saving any of them we were being killed and were made to run away, now why are they feeling so bad if they are being treated in same way.Why it is being called savagery now, wasn't it savagery then??
If you look at geography in that way even entire NWFP must be Afghanistan, isn't it even people are same in ethnicity and religion in entire Pashtoonistan

PS, I'm surprised that a person of such hatred towards Pakistan is a moderator of a Pakistani representing website. It's really a shame afterall.

I don't hate any pakistani including you, but If I don't get to live in Baramula, no once else will live peacefully:), I want Kashmir to be resolved, but I want my pandit rights too:) Tell me if it is that demand unjust:)

[babloos]

Re: Bilour proposes confederation of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan!!!

^^

sad to hear about ur hubby family

btw jinx about pakistan taking 1/3rd of kashmir from india in 47-48 is false

to begin with there was no indian army in that region,it was under hari singh control,individual armed pashtuns started to occupy present day gilgit/azad region
finally hari singh gave up kashmir region to india,one more horror thing which happeend during this time was same thing which u guys are saying about indian army,this same pashtuns started raping women
which gave more reason for indian army to enter srinagar

[rangoli]

Re: Bilour proposes confederation of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan!!!

guys, this discussion is derailing the topic, there is a very nice thread started on Kashmir by Amal, you guys can carry on with your kashmir discussions there
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/556039-the-meadow-kashmir-1995-where-the-terror-began.html

[ehsan]

Re: Bilour proposes confederation of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan!!!

without reading Snd Taas agreement I assume that India is at fault, but if pakistan is really serious it should send ace of the pack(Generals) not jokers(politicians) of Pakistan:), Your fortune is bad because your choice is bad,India is existential threat to Pakistan the best way to deal with existential threat is to avoid it not to attack it in 48,65 and 71 just to get defeated:)

None of the disputed area were either Indian or Pakistani before public decides it:), why label kashmir, pakistan before Kashmiris are given chance even, and why only Kashmiris should be given chance why not Jammuites, Baltistani,Laddakhis too?? Kashmir is integral part of India. Your country sponsor terrorism in India, Musharraf openly said in agra those dehshatgards because of whom my family moved out of Kashmir, Jang-e-Azadi ke sipahi, if you really wish to get Kashmir in hard way, you won't get it:D. Your Hafiz Saeed recently said that after Kabul they will come to Kashmir. "Poore kashmir mein douda douda kar marege isko bhi:D"

Your General Ayub Khan launched Operation Giberaltor first, to release pressure from Akhnoor India attacked in Punjab, your forces lost Battle of Asal Uttar and certain lt musharraf was with the artillery division at khemkaran, please don't tell me we attacked you in 47/48 and in 1965 Half of the pakistan tank were lost in Asal Uttar, India even captured Haji Peer Pass, not a single independent military expert would subscribe that you won 65 just like one muslim is equal to 10 effete hindus:D I know India lost battle of Chawinda:) Victory is political by design, millitary battle is just one way to achieve political victory.

Junagarh was hindu mahority and has somnath temple even, Pakistan accepted instrument of accession because not only it was hindu majority but it also knew they will lose the battle. We invaded even Bangladesh too as covertly as you invaded in Kashmir 65:)

Let me correct certain misconceptions on your part regarding 65 war. I was there. I was 12 miles from wagah border in Lahore. While I was sitting 12 miles from the border your "Akash wanee" was spitting out lies that the Indian army was having lunch and tea in Lahore gymkhana. A dream which to date has never been fulfilled never will, despite all the superior numeracy you have. Your army never entered Lahore, never, they were stopped and rotted at the BRB canal near jalo morh. A canal made for this purpose. At sialkot sector your tank division was annihilated when your army attacked and miserably failed to cut Sialkot. Lets not forget the war started when the Indians lost Chumb and Jorian in Kashmir and in panic attacked Lahore to stretch Pak army. At best it was a drawn war and therefore Pakistan can claim it won because with all your might you failed miserably even to capture Lahore.

[ehsan]

Re: Bilour proposes confederation of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan!!!

I don't hate any pakistani including you, but If I don't get to live in Baramula, no once else will live peacefully:), I want Kashmir to be resolved, but I want my pandit rights too:) Tell me if it is that demand unjust:)

Give Kashmiris the right to self determination and you can have peace. why deny them their right? After all you people claim that they want to live with India. prove it to the world. Hold a referendum. Or are you afraid of something.

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Bilour proposes confederation of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan!!!

Kashmir of 1947 included azad Kashmir, gilgit baltistan and aksai chin and Indians todate show all these areas a part of their map. Aksai chin was given by Pakistan to china if you add that in the areas Pakistan has got that translates roughly into half of total area of Jammu and Kashmir, and it was Nehru who ran to united nations. 1948 war was a net loss for Indians, 1965 was at best a stalemate no one won, 1971 was a failure for Pakistan fair and square, and 1999 was a blunder by Pakistani army. It was a complete diplomatic fiasco and not well thought out.

[mo293]

Re: Bilour proposes confederation of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan!!!

Aksai chin was given by Pakistan to china .

Nope!! In 1962 when India was once again winning against China thats when China took Akasi Chin...

[babloos]

Re: Bilour proposes confederation of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan!!!

@ehsan

Let me correct certain misconceptions on your part regarding 65 war. I was there. I was 12 miles from wagah border in Lahore. While I was sitting 12 miles from the border your “Akash wanee” was spitting out lies that the Indian army was having lunch and tea in Lahore gymkhana. A dream which to date has never been fulfilled never will, despite all the superior numeracy you have. Your army never entered Lahore, never, they were stopped and rotted at the BRB canal near jalo morh. A canal made for this purpose. At sialkot sector your tank division was annihilated when your army attacked and miserably failed to cut Sialkot. Lets not forget the war started when the Indians lost Chumb and Jorian in Kashmir and in panic attacked Lahore to stretch Pak army. At best it was a drawn war and therefore Pakistan can claim it won because with all your might you failed miserably even to capture Lahore.

this is from ur own media

this type of lies that pakistan won the war gives false nationalism to people,sometimes people should accept mistakes so that they don’t commit in future,that’s what happend with india in 62 war
give me third party/international source where it says pakistan has upper hand in 65 war

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Bilour proposes confederation of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan!!!

Nope!! In 1962 when India was once again winning against China thats when China took Akasi Chin...

Did Pakistan cede any land to china in their border agreement?

[ehsan]

Re: Bilour proposes confederation of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan!!!

@babloos

this is from ur own media

this type of lies that pakistan won the war gives false nationalism to people,sometimes people should accept mistakes so that they don’t commit in future,that’s what happend with india in 62 war
give me third party/international source where it says pakistan has upper hand in 65 war

Where did I say Pakistan won, I did say and will say it again at best it was a draw. Remember it was India which attacked Lahore during night and even after 17 days failed miserably to capture it. If you think that was a victory for India, good for you. Ignorance is bliss.

[babloos]

Re: Bilour proposes confederation of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan!!!

Where did I say Pakistan won, I did say and will say it again at best it was a draw. Remember hit was India which attacked Lahore during night and even after 17 days failed miserably to capture it. If you think that was a victory for India, good for you. Ignorance is bliss.

At best it was a drawn war and therefore Pakistan can claim it won because with all your might you failed miserably even to capture Lahore.

how can you say that when pakistan was first to attack in kashmir,in retaliation india attacked lahore
pakistan army didn't achieve thier goal, for war which you guys started same can't be said of india because we didn't want to capture onlly because of attack in kashmir

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Bilour proposes confederation of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan!!!

how can you say that when pakistan was first to attack in kashmir,in retaliation india attacked lahore pakistan army didn't achieve thier goal, for war which you guys started same can't be said of india because we didn't want to capture onlly because of attack in kashmir

Keeping aside this debate as to who started the war, but when it had begun didnt India try to capture Lahore?

[ehsan]

Re: Bilour proposes confederation of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan!!!

how can you say that when pakistan was first to attack in kashmir,in retaliation india attacked lahore pakistan army didn't achieve thier goal, for war which you guys started same can't be said of india because we didn't want to capture onlly because of attack in kashmir

Instead of highlighting read the context let me explain again because we were out gunned and out numbered the war for me was a draw therefore it can be claimed as a win because your army failed miserably in its aim to capture Lahore with all the might at their disposal. Also to say "can claim to win" and to say "we won" are two different things. Also this oh we didnt wanted to capture Lahore is biggest joke I have heard. Your "akash Wanee" was jumping up and down about how your army was having tea in Lahore gymkhana. Not only that your govt issued statement to all foreign news agencies that you have captured Lahore. I remember hearing it on BBC and looking out of my house trying to see where the Indian army was, never saw any. What all this means is that your generals had told your govt that capturing Lahore by sneaking an attack during the night would be easy and that by the end of the day they will be sipping tea in Gymkhana. As they say Hazaron khawheishein aisee. everything was planned by your army but the result was different. So please don't come here and tell me that capturing Lahore was not your aim.

[babloos]

Re: Bilour proposes confederation of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan!!!

Instead of highlighting read the context let me explain again because we were out gunned and out numbered the war for me was a draw therefore it can be claimed as a win because your army failed miserably in its aim to capture Lahore with all the might at their disposal. Also to say "can claim to win" and to say "we won" are two different things. Also this oh we didnt wanted to capture Lahore is biggest joke I have heard. Your "akash Wanee" was jumping up and down about how your army was having tea in Lahore gymkhana. Not only that your govt issued statement to all foreign news agencies that you have captured Lahore. I remembered hearing it on BBC and looking out of my house trying to see where the Indian army was, never saw any. What all this means is that your generals had told your govt that capturing Lahore by sneaking an attack during the night would be easy and that by the end of the day they will be sipping tea in Gymkhana. As they say Hazaron khawheishein aisee. everything was planned by your army but the result was different. So please don't come here and tell me that capturing Lahore was not your aim.

do you seriously believe india sent full army to capture lahore and failed
it was a strategic move to divert ur army from kashmir,to which india succeeded from removing ur army from kashmir,in the end biggest looser was ur army general ayub and bhutto guy who planned this sneak attack thinking local kashmiri people would help them,infact local shepherd boy informed about pakistani soliders in disguise to IA

check the above video i posted, may be kaur can give you more details

[ehsan]

Re: Bilour proposes confederation of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan!!!

do you seriously believe india sent full army to capture lahore and failed it was a strategic move to divert ur army from kashmir,to which india succeeded from removing ur army from kashmir,in the end biggest looser was ur army general ayub and bhutto guy who planned this sneak attack thinking local kashmiri people would help them,infact local shepherd boy informed about pakistani soliders in disguise to IA

check the above video i posted, may be kaur can give you more details

No you just sent a few hundred soldiers to fight for 17 days along the whole border. Which world do you live in. It was a full scale war and your army despite its might failed miserably. I dont need Kaur to explain anything, I was there in Lahore throughout the war, as I said before 12 miles from the border.

[hanibal]

Re: Bilour proposes confederation of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan!!!

do you seriously believe india sent full army to capture lahore and failed

No, nobody in Lahore believes that, the real story is, Indians have lost their kite and it came in the areas adjacent to Lahore, because it was huge areas, they came with all those men!!! they were never here to fight, the prime reason was to collect the kite back and other reason was to have a picnic at the banks of BRB.. and moreover, the Tanks In Chavinda (Sialkot) just lost their ways and were wandering around like headless cockroach!!!

[ehsan]

Re: Bilour proposes confederation of Pakistan, India, Bangladesh and Afghanistan!!!

@hanibal

No, nobody in Lahore believes that, the real story is, Indians have lost their kite and it came in the areas adjacent to Lahore, because it was huge areas, they came with all those men!!! they were never here to fight, the prime reason was to collect the kite back and other reason was to have a picnic at the banks of BRB.. and moreover, the Tanks In Chavinda (Sialkot) just lost their ways and were wandering around like headless cockroach!!!

good one.