Re: Bid'ah - Good & Bad (merged)
Alhamdullilah may Allah reward gupguppy for gettin the details behind the info frm brother Bob.
captain i hope it answered yr question aswell.
Bid'ah
Please help me on this how do we define Bid'ah i know the word means innovation but what specifically constitute bid'ah what actions or practices and can the members please enlighten me if any such bid'ah are prevalent in our societies right now
thank you
Re: Bid'ah - Good & Bad (merged)
Das Reich, I merged the thread, as I'm sure you'll be able to learn plenty on the views of the two sides on this topic from this thraed.
Re: Bid'ah - Good & Bad (merged)
Thank you
it is my first day! didnt know it already existed
Re: Bid’ah - Good & Bad (merged)
What about the story about the caliphs insisting that the hadiths be destroyed. Have you been able to trace it’s source? Thanks for the hardwork.
By the way, have you been able to uncover any evidence that the finite hadith text as it exists today, including false statements attributed to the prophet p, was collected in the days of the caliphs yet?
regards,
bob
Re: Bid'ah - Good & Bad (merged)
bloody hell bob you still on about that? the burden is upon you to provide the source. iv never heard of such story.
Re: Bid'ah - Good & Bad (merged)
u no bob uv asked many questions and we hav replied and refuted all. what i want is for you to tell me what you think of our replies to your info on the following statement
Abi Said al Khudri reported that the Prophet said, "Do not write down anything from me except the Quran. Whoever writes down anything other than the Quran must erase it."
and the others? what do you have to say about brother gupguppy's response?
you have asked many questions but we want answers from you now. do you accept that the statements you qouted are not valid?
Re: Bid’ah - Good & Bad (merged)
Dear faisal,
Seems like the question is getting under your skin. By the way, I havent asked many questions. I have actually asked the same question about six times now without receiving evidence. Btw, the burden is on you not me to prove that a finite hadith text was not created by the caliphs, identical to the one that exists now, including hadiths falsely attributed to the prophet p. For example, if I were to claim that someone in the days of the prophet rode around on a rocket, you would ask for evidence that he did. I couldnt ask you to prove he didnt to prove he did. Similarly, you need to prove that such a text was created in the days of the prophet or the caliphs r to prove it is not a bida. Whether you understand the rules of logic or not, those who do, I am sure understand my point. You getting bent out of shape isnt going to help your cause. Just as rockets didnt exist in the days of the prophet, it is hard to imagine that people went around with texts full of all the saying of the prophet that exist in the hadith text today and deliberatey mixed in false statements attributed to him p, so they could apply some science of chains of narration on people that hadnt been born in the days of the caliph, to weed them out.
regards,
bob
Re: Bid’ah - Good & Bad (merged)
Like I said before, I am not intensely interested in that topic. It was a question that interested gupguppy. So I posted a response with a note of caution that it was a submitter website that can be biased. Thanks to gupguppy, I think we have learnt that some followers of Islam believe that hadiths were meant to be memorized only without being written while others believe that the chains are weak and the ban on writing was temporary. None of this proves that a finite text identical to the one that exists today with hadiths falsely attributed to the prophet existed in the days of the caliphs r and the prophet.
regards,
bob
Re: Bid'ah - Good & Bad (merged)
Prophet Muhammad said what means: “The one who innovates a good innovation in Islam has its reward and a reward similar to those who follow him in without lessening their reward. The one who innovates an innovation of misguidance would be sinful for it and has sins similar to those who follow him in it--until the Day of Judgment”. From such hadith, the scholars of Islam like an-Nawawiy and al-hafidh Ibn Hajar and others said that innovation (Bid^ah) is of two types one that does not comply with Qur’an and Sunnah and that is rejected, and one that complies with Qur’an and Sunnah which is accepted in Islam such as al-Mawlid celebration. The companions of the Prophet also innovated good innovations that the Prophet himself did not do like Khubayb who innovated a good innovation (bid^ah) by making a practice of praying two rak^ahs before being killed. Making Salat and salam on the Prophet after the Adhan is another good innovation practiced by Muslims over 700 years ago. Also Yahya bin Ya^mur innovated a good innovation by placing dots and characters above and below the Arabic letters in the Qur’an. A dot below the Ba’ letter, Dot above Noon letter and so on. That was not done by the prophet nor companions. That innovation was a very beneficial and useful bid^ah accepted in Islam.
Celebrating the Birth of the Prophet is one of those good innovations of guidance that comply with the Qur’an Sunnah. It’s a way of presenting our thankfulness to Allah, for sending Prophet Muhammad as a mercy to humanity, who taught the people to love Allah and respect all the Prophets of Allah. He taught that all prophets came with Islam. They all submitted to Allah and worshipped Allah alone. All the Prophets believed that Allah is One with no partners, He is the most powerful, He does not need any of his creations and does not resemble any of his creations. And that Allah exists eternally without a beginning, without a place or a direction. The Messenger of Allah, sallallahu ^alayhi wa sallam, said: which means: "Allah existed eternally and there was nothing else." Imam Ahmad Ibn Salamah, Abu Ja^far at-Tahawiyy said in his book: "Allah is supremely clear of all boundaries, extremes, sides, organs and instruments. The six directions do not contain Him--these are attributed to all created things." This means that Allah is clear of being contained by the six directions. Allah exists, without a place or direction, he does not need any of his creations and He does not resemble any of his creations.
This is what al-Mawlid is about, telling the people about creed of the Prophet sallallahu ^alayhi wa sallam and the way of his companions, teaching the qualities of the Prophet and his great characteristics. I congratulate you and the Muslim nation for this great occasion, and we ask Allah to make the next year peaceful and prosperous on us, ameen.
Re: Bid^a - (Innovation) 2 types, Good and Evil As Scholars stated.
Imam Muslim related, through the route of Jarir Ibn ^Abdullah, the Prophet said:
which means: <
t complies with the Qur'an, the Sunnah, the Ijma^ (scholarly consensus), and the sayings and practices of the Companions is an innovation of guidance, and what contradicts the Qur'an, the Sunnah, the Ijma^, and the sayings and actions of the Companions is an innovation of misguidance. This definition of the two types of innovations was given by many knowledgeable and trustworthy scholars of Islam; among them Imam ash-Shafi^iyy, Imam an-Nawawiyy, al-Bayhaqiyy, and the Hafidh, Ibn Hajar al-^Asqalaniyy.
It is apparent Muslims have not gone astray in celebrating the birth of the Prophet, or saying salat and salam after athan, based upon the aforementioned hadith, because the deeds practiced during this event are considered rewardable by the standards of the Religion, and in line with the definition of innovations of guidance.
Unfortunately, there are some people who misinterpret a sahih hadith related by Abu Dawud: which means: <
Their claim is unfounded for two reasons. Linguistically, this hadith is similar to the hadith related by al-Bayhaqiyy: which clearly does not mean: "Every eye gazes the look of the adulterer;" rather, "Most people are guilty of the forbidden look." The person blind since birth would surely not have the forbidden look, and it is known the Prophets would never commit such an abject sin. The word (kul) as used in both hadiths refers to `most,' although it can mean "every" it does not mean this in all cases.
As a matter of fact, in the explanation of Sahih Muslim, an-Nawawiyy said: "The saying of the Prophet, sallallahu ^alayhi wa sallam, is among the terms which are (^am makhsus) i.e., a general statement giving a specific meaning; which is a known field in Islam, and the meaning of the hadith is "most innovations are innovations of misguidance." This field is seen in the Qur'an in Ayah 3 of Surat al-Ahqaf: which means the wind Allah sent as punishment to the people of ^Ad demolished most of the things.
To accept the meaning: "Every innovation is an innovation of misguidance," as the meaning of the sahih hadith related by Abu Dawud would negate the sahih hadith related by Imam Muslim which specifies two types of innovations: the innovations of guidance and the innovations of misguidance. In the rules of the Religion it is not permissible to interpret two sahih hadiths in contradiction to one another, therefore we know the true meaning.
Although most innovations are innovations of misguidance, there are numerous examples of Religiously acceptable innovations. During the Caliphate of ^Umar Ibnul Khattab, ^Umar initiated the gathering of people in Ramadan to pray the Tarawih Prayer in congregation. When he saw the people performing this prayer in congregation he said: which means: "What a good innovation that is!" The high status of ^Umar Ibnul Khattab is known, thus it is important to point out ^Umar used the explicit term "innovation" in his praise. If all innovations were misguided--as some claim--^Umar would not have innovated this practice, nor expressed this praise, yet both al-Bukhariyy and Muslim related this incident. During the era of the followers of the Companions of the Prophet, another praise-worthy innovation took place. Initially, letters like the ba, ta, tha, and ya, did not have dots above or below them. This practice of distinguishing between the letters by using this notation began after the time of the Prophet.
Since the time of the Prophet, many innovations have been adopted. Remembering the birth of the Prophet by doing rewardable deeds is a praise-worthy innovation. It is an honorable event and special to Muslims throughout the world. We rejoice in being members of the greatest nation of Islam--the nation of Muhammad--who was the best Prophet and the best creation of Allah. In Surat Al ^Imran, Ayah 110, Allah said: which means: [You are the best of nations brought forth to the people; bidding the lawful (ma^ruf) forbidding the unlawful (munkar), and believing in Allah.] This verse means this nation is the best of nations by virtue of its Prophet," as explained by the scholars of Islam. Muslims are thankful to Allah for the blessings of Islam and for being among the followers of Muhammad. In Surat Al ^Imran, Ayah 31, Allah said: which means: [If you love Allah, then follow the Prophet, and Allah will love you.]
I hope that helps. Allah knows best.
OH my god look how the hate is being spread!!!! these words! look at how you spread the hate!
Re: Bid^a - (Innovation) 2 types, Good and Evil As Scholars stated.
OH my god look how the hate is being spread!!!! these words! look at how you spread the hate!
Are you okay? Maybe in the wrong thread?
Re: Bid'ah - Good & Bad (merged)
You ever heard the concept of wahabis toward Ahle bait .. I have heard Dr Israr ahmed on a speech about karbla that " it was a fight among two princes , one of them win and other lost".. He is sayind that Yazid(Lanatullah) was a sahabi and you cant say he was a bad person. I hate their concept of Yazid .. The killer of imam hussain (RA) the leader of the jannah. shame on you wahabis
Re: Bid'ah - Good & Bad (merged)
You ever heard the concept of wahabis toward Ahle bait .. I have heard Dr Israr ahmed on a speech about karbla that " it was a fight among two princes , one of them win and other lost".. He is sayind that Yazid(Lanatullah) was a sahabi and you cant say he was a bad person. I hate their concept of Yazid .. The killer of imam hussain (RA) the leader of the jannah. shame on you wahabis
Did you open the thread ' sunni and shia brothers '?............very bad.
Re: Bid'ah - Good & Bad (merged)
And no I dont' agree with you!
Naat was done at the time of Prophet Muhammad by sahabah as well. Some with Duff (Tamberine drum) some without. (As Nararted by Ibn Hajar)
The fact is: Wahabies hate naat-arrasool. That's All. And so, is every fatwa they make, indicates to the hatred of the Prophet!.
May Allah Guide them.
I love naats by Waheed Zafar Qasmi.
Who are wahabies brother and why do they hate our Prophet Mohammed(s.w)?
Re: Bid^a - (Innovation) 2 types, Good and Evil As Scholars stated.
Are you okay? Maybe in the wrong thread?
What is he talking about?
Re: Bid’ah - Good & Bad (merged)
Check webster for wahabies it will confirm that it’s a sect.
This sect was funded by the british, and they claim to be Sunni/Salafi, but they have many many beliefs that contradict the Islamic essentials.
Check this site:
http://www.alsunna.org/extremists.htm