Its useless to argue with you, but let me make few things clear. I do not support person or a group just for sake of it...I judge people based on their performance. I was not supporting PPP until few years back & the only reason I support PPP now is b/c in bag of rotten apples it seems reasonable, and the fact that it is a nation secular party, unlike PMLN and PTI. Another reason I support PPP is b/c when Zardari took over the country was in free fall, and no one was willing to give him a chance, but despite that he has managed to stabilize the country to large degree & he has gone after terrorists. Oh, and one more thing, I was never big fan of ZAB/BB or Bhutto clan for that matter...b/c they have been nothing more the curse on the country. And, unlike you, I do not think any one party or a person is more important than country itself.
So you consider Zardari better than Bhutto. That is o.k. and it is your prerogative.
When you start talking about Bhutto it suddenly becomes us versus them (Punjab vs Sindh), hence the references.
Can you quote if I said something like that regarding Bhutto vs Punjab. Perhaps you don't know that Bhutto became PM because of the votes he got from Punjab. Otherwise he would have been sitting in opposition. So don't start yet another off tangent discussions.
The nepotism and favoritism done in privatization and supporting the illegal actions of former governments of PML(N) ignoring the rules and norms points to favoring Punjab, which has nothing to do with Punjab Vs Sindh. I hope you understand the difference.
Can you quote if I said something like that regarding Bhutto vs Punjab. **Perhaps you don't know that Bhutto became PM because of the votes he got from Punjab. **Otherwise he would have been sitting in opposition. So don't start yet another off tangent discussions.
The nepotism and favoritism done in privatization and supporting the illegal actions of former governments of PML(N) ignoring the rules and norms points to favoring Punjab, which has nothing to do with Punjab Vs Sindh. I hope you understand the difference.
So if PPP is unable to form a government in Punjab now.... what does it tell you?
Time to brush up on your vocabulary. You are running out of words.
PPPs vote bank in Punjab deteriorated in a matter of couple of years, owing to Bhutto's strong arm tactics. That is why Bhutto resorted to widescale rigging in the 77 elections, as a result of which he showed a laughable 93% vote in Punjab. To this day, 77 elections are considered as the most heavily rigged elections in the history of Pakistan.
Can you quote if I said something like that regarding Bhutto vs Punjab. Perhaps you don't know that Bhutto became PM because of the votes he got from Punjab. Otherwise he would have been sitting in opposition. So don't start yet another off tangent discussions.
The nepotism and favoritism done in privatization and supporting the illegal actions of former governments of PML(N) ignoring the rules and norms points to favoring Punjab, which has nothing to do with Punjab Vs Sindh. I hope you understand the difference.
What about the idiotic jiyalas with pea sized brains that they can't use from sindh that got favored in quota system? PIA, steel mill was destroyed because of them. Nationalization and then falsifying the census in the seventies was done in sindh so "sindhis" could grab the industries that were built with hard work by the people who lived in karachi. Of course, you never would "see that".
You are doubting Adamjee the renown business tycoon of subcontinent but you believe in your chor, lotera, tax chor, kabarhia N$ and his chapraasi Sartaj Aziz, why because they belonged to Punjab and suits you.
**
I am again ignoring your racist out bursts..
It's most amusing and comical to note that one of the die hard Bhutto fan is feeling so much pain fro Adamjees who got dis hearted and left the country in Seventees not because of Sartaz Aziz but because of your cult leader Z.A.Bhutto.
One of the last remaining assets of this family, Adamjee Textile Mills, which was one of the largest Textile mills in the country with over 100,000 spindles was in bad financial shape in 80s and was liquidated. Farooq A. Sheikh bought this textile mills with the help of BCCI at that time but could not run it. This mill was liquidated again to be bought by Gul Ahmad family and they renamed this mill as Al Karam textile which is still running well in Landhi Karachi.
Another faction of this family (who were not bidders in MCB) continued to manage Adamjee insurance. Eventually some of the fragmented family members sold their stake to Mansha and today although this entity still possesses the name of Adamjee is managed by Mansha who owns contolling stake in this company. This is the last remaining traces of Adamjee's past glory that an insurance company still bears their family name.
It's a sad story that business people like Adamjee's got dis hearted from pakistan and left the country.. but be very clear. Sartaz Aziz was not responsible for this, Bhutto was..
Sartaz Aziz is a respected, upright, honest, and intellectual person who lives very modestly. He is the dean of Khurshid Kasuri's (PTI) BNU university presently. Although I don't subscribe to some of his ideas on economic front but I personally know him.. no one can doubt his integrity.. in spite of your racist prejudiced that no Punjabi can be upright.
Thanks God I don't share your racist hatred. Despite being a Punjabi most of the social work I am doing is in Sind.. and is directed towards segment of people who I think are most deserving. I don't need describe your personality.. as you have done a much better job of proving your credentials blindly supporting Bhutto like a cult leader, by continuously passing racial hatred remarks, and choosing words to express your opinion which by no means can be described as appropriate.
Add in this list is military, income tax, customs, judiciary, police, civil aviation, rangers, and all blood sucking entities only sucking the wealth of Pakistan. Privatize them if you have guts to do that.
You yourself are stating that all government owned entities are sucking the blood of the people. Why then include private entities to that list?
Time to brush up on your vocabulary. You are running out of words.
PPPs vote bank in Punjab deteriorated in a matter of couple of years, owing to Bhutto's strong arm tactics. That is why Bhutto resorted to widescale rigging in the 77 elections, as a result of which he showed a laughable 93% vote in Punjab. To this day, 77 elections are considered as the most heavily rigged elections in the history of Pakistan.
Again wrong. Malown Zia-ul-Haq saw that Bhutto will win 100% in Punjab, hence he cancelled 90 days election promise and ruled 11 years till he was smoked in thin air.
It's most amusing and comical to note that one of the die hard Bhutto fan is feeling so much pain fro Adamjees who got dis hearted and left the country in Seventees not because of Sartaz Aziz but because of your cult leader Z.A.Bhutto.
One of the last remaining assets of this family, Adamjee Textile Mills, which was one of the largest Textile mills in the country with over 100,000 spindles was in bad financial shape in 80s and was liquidated. Farooq A. Sheikh bought this textile mills with the help of BCCI at that time but could not run it. This mill was liquidated again to be bought by Gul Ahmad family and they renamed this mill as Al Karam textile which is still running well in Landhi Karachi.
Another faction of this family (who were not bidders in MCB) continued to manage Adamjee insurance. Eventually some of the fragmented family members sold their stake to Mansha and today although this entity still possesses the name of Adamjee is managed by Mansha who owns contolling stake in this company. This is the last remaining traces of Adamjee's past glory that an insurance company still bears their family name.
It's a sad story that business people like Adamjee's got dis hearted from pakistan and left the country.. but be very clear. Sartaz Aziz was not responsible for this, Bhutto was..
Sartaz Aziz is a respected, upright, honest, and intellectual person who lives very modestly. He is the dean of Khurshid Kasuri's (PTI) BNU university presently. Although I don't subscribe to some of his ideas on economic front but I personally know him.. no one can doubt his integrity.. in spite of your racist prejudiced that no Punjabi can be upright.
Thanks God I don't share your racist hatred. Despite being a Punjabi most of the social work I am doing is in Sind.. and is directed towards segment of people who I think are most deserving. I don't need describe your personality.. as you have done a much better job of proving your credentials blindly supporting Bhutto like a cult leader, by continuously passing racial hatred remarks, and choosing words to express your opinion which by no means can be described as appropriate.
Post privatized is another story. I was talking about before privatizing and mass irregularities committed by your leader, whom you don't want to discuss his actions as three times PM.
I appreciate your efforts in Sindh, but supporting maha chor, is not acceptable.
You yourself are stating that all government owned entities are sucking the blood of the people. Why then include private entities to that list?
You were talking about departments which were running in loss. I add the departments which are actually sucking the blood of Pakistan. Privatize them first.
Post privatized is another story. I was talking about before privatizing and mass irregularities committed by your leader, whom you don't want to discuss his actions as three times PM.
I appreciate your efforts in Sindh, but supporting maha chor, is not acceptable.
I am not talking about post privatization of MCB which took place in 1991. I am talking about Adamjee family's financial miseries which started in 70s with the formation of Bangladesh.. after that in 70s when they faced nationalization.. and in 80s they lost one of the last business concerns, The Adamjee textile mills due to bad financial health and defaulting loans. This all happened pre privatization of MCB before 1991.. and when they were asked to furnish the financial source of their bid.. they were unable to disclose the source of their funds which had to be paid for the takeover of MCB.
Please show me one single post in my entire career of posting here in GS where I have defended any chor, corrupt, terrorist, maha chor, chota chor, sultana dako.. etc. etc.
Unlike you I do not worship one single personality.. I rather try to endorse or criticize individual actions or deeds..
Bider1 you have rejected because they did not have experience, bider2 you are rejecting, repeating the words N$ which came out from the mouth of Sartaz Aziz. whatever their financial condition was, Adamjees was more authentic and reliable businessman then kabarhia NS and Mansha, whose position was 11th and elevated to 6th due to this dubious deal.
**Adamjee Group is a conglomerate based primarily in Pakistan.
The group was founded by Sir Adamjee Haji Dawood (1880–1948) who also played a vital role in the birth of the state of Pakistan by acting as a financial advisor and supporter to Quaid-e-Azam Mohammed Ali Jinnah, the founding father of Pakistan. Sir Adamjee’s role as advisor gave birth to various economic institutions; the Muslim Commercial Bank (MCB), Orient Airways, and the Morning Star Newspaper. These were primarily established at the behest of Quaid-e-Azam Mohammed Ali Jinnah to win the support of the Muslims of India and facilitate them in migration to Pakistan during the partition of India in August 1947.
The group has had changing fortunes over the past 50 years, initially originating as a Jute and Banking conglomerate,later spreading to other industries i.e. tea, textiles, matches, sugar, paper board, chemicals, engineering and Insurance. Enterprises under the umbrella of the group are :
Over the years, the Group has diversified into different sectors, the most prominent being the jute mills, textiles and the Adamjee insurance company. Today the Adamjee name is a household name in Pakistan and Bangladesh. Continuing with Sir Adamjees philanthropic activities, his family established various learning centers and medical institutions i.e. Adamjee Eye Hospital, Adamjee Science College,Lady Mariam Adamjee Girls School, Sir Adamjee Institute of Technology, and the Adamjee High School in Dakha.**
**And you say Adamjee, the original owner of MCB had no financial proof. You were not there when this dubious deal was done, or were you present? N$ a biggest liar Pakistan ever produced, can never be trusted. Be honest, had he belonged to Sindh, he would have been still burning in jails. Musharraf would have hanged him rather making deal with him to leave Pakistan.
If Bhutto had nationalized his bank, it should have been handed over to the original owner rather than making a dubious deal and sold some one else who filled the pockets with highest money to this kabarhia. It is a shame that maha chor, three times PM treated “Pakistan as us ke baap ki jaagir hay, jo marzi main aaaya woh karay.” **
Please don’t support these people with no integrity, if you consider your self as honest businessman. Thanks.
^ So in short you support the nationalization program which stole the bank from Adamjees but not the privatization of it, where the bidding process was done and the reasons given for rejecting or accepting them. Did Adamjee go to the court after the privatization?
You would be happy to note that even Adamjee Insurance is owned by Mansha now (Yazdi also mentioned this in some previous post).
his Adamjee Insurance is the largest general insurer in Pakistan.
...........And you say Adamjee, the original owner of MCB had no financial proof. You were not there when this dubious deal was done, or were you present?.... **.**
were you?
It is interesting that even after such a dubious deal between a blood sucking capitalist and mega corrupt politician, MCB has performed much better after privatization. Further proof that nationalization destroyed businesses to the core.
Further proof that nationalization destroyed businesses to the core.
Nationalization & state control of business never works b/c there are no incentives for workers to work hard (just like any govt bureaucracy). That is why USSR is dead, North Korea is a basket case & China has evolved into hybrid of socialist/capitalist system. ZABs nationalization policies destroyed backbone of the country's economy & drove out investors class...he took from makers and gave it to his party workers...the takers. It never works. Funny thing is that all govt since then have been trying re-privatize same businesses (including PPP's govts).
This article which you have posted from wikipedia needs huge updating because the data is at least 40 year old. All these companies except Adamjee Insurance do no exist any more. Adamjee group had defaulted big time in Adamjee Textile prior to 91 and was liquidated. They could not disclose the source of their funding at the time of privatization of MCB. Moreover it was against the policy of government to hand over an entity like MCB to bank defaulters with outstanding unadjusted banking liabilities.
When you are labeling the people who were part of consortium who took over MCB as dishonest you are exposing you naiveness about the information about business circles in Pakistan. People like Sapphire, Shafi, Mima, Din, Sitara, Arshad Corporation, Bebejan, Bashir Jan Mohammed, Mansha etc. are some of the best business houses in Pakistan with enviable reputation. None of these group has ever defaulted in their banking or market-commercial obligations and possess extra ordinary management skills. All of them run transparent legitimate business giving employment to millions. Even twenty years after privatization of MCB you can not point toward a single irregularity by any one of these groups.. they are some of the finest our country has ever produced.
And when you are trying to give this privatization an ethnic color.. you are trying to fool people by ignoring the fact that four groups in the consortium were exclusively karachi based groups with no business stake in Punjab in 1991 (Shafi, Mima, Din, and Bashir Jan Mohammead).. even Sapphire in 1991 was largely a Karachi based business group with 90% of their industrial stake in Kotri Sind.
MCB was privatized to the most deserving consortium of businessmen.. who could justify this purchase, who had never defaulted on any loan.. unlike Adamjee who was a defaulter in Adamjee Textile and Tawakal who were a mere scam and both of them could not come up with a disclosed source of funds for the purchase of MCB..
P.S> Criticizing Bhutto does not mean one is supporting Ziaulhaq or Nawaz Sharif or it is an exhibition of hate Sindhi mentality by imperialist Punjabis..
Again wrong. Malown Zia-ul-Haq saw that Bhutto will win 100% in Punjab, hence he cancelled 90 days election promise and ruled 11 years till he was smoked in thin air.
Bhutto himself acknowledged rigging in no less than 50 constituencies after he was caught. Imagine if he acknowledged 50, the actual number must be much higher. Your current party spokesman Kaira also recently admitted fraud in 1977 elections. Bhutto was out looking for a continuance of a civilian form of martial law and authoritarian rule through fake votes before he was caught.
Bhutto himself acknowledged rigging in no less than 50 constituencies after he was caught. Imagine if he acknowledged 50, the actual number must be much higher. Your current party spokesman Kaira also recently admitted fraud in 1977 elections. Bhutto was out looking for a continuance of a civilian form of martial law and authoritarian rule through fake votes before he was caught.
No he did not rig the elections. PNA formed by ISI to topple the elected government like IJI was formed by ISI. Where is PNA or stupid 9 sitare now? The elections were mostly fair, Bhutto won in majority of the seats. Even then he agreed to re-election, but Zia-ul-Haq took over.