Bhutto's Nationalization policy

Re: Bilawal to step into electoral politics on Dec 27

That is altogether a different discussion, nothing to do with this thread. Most of the entities except Steel Mill, was government owned even before Bhutto. Karachi Steel Mill was also an achievement of great Bhutto who got it from Russians. I never said Main Mansha's group is dubious. His purchasing of MCB was dubious as two other higher bidders were ignored by government of ganja Sharif which included AdamJee who was one of the top businessman even before partition and authentic business personnel. He owned perhaps one of the largest paper mill in the world in former East Pakistan knows as Karnafulli Paper Mill.

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

Next time do your home work before you make sweeping statements far from the facts. Why do you speculate that no.1 bidder would have failed to justify no.3? And what about no. 2 bidder, Adamjee, who was one of richest businessman even before partition and no. 1 businessman after creation of Pakistan. Unlike Mansha who was no where before creation of Pakistan and many years after its creation, Adamjee owned a number of entities in West and former East Pakistan. He owned Karnafulli Paper Mill, perhaps one of the biggest paper mill in the world owned by him even before partition. Why chor, uchaka, government money stealer, tax chor ganja Sharif ignored him? Do have any answer to that?

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

^ whoever bid was successful is running MCB much much better than the government ---> Badly done privatization (according to you) is still proving to be much more successful than ill-advised nationalization.

The idea is that government cannot run commercial organizations efficiently, specially a government dependent on landlords and industrialists for support. They'd be more interested in eating away public money.

What was I thinking. Trying to reason.... again!

Re: Bhutto’s Nationalization policy

Your assertions are based on speculations. Was it not possible of more profits if MCB would have been given to bider 1 or bider 2? Again why bidder 2 was ignored? Moreover Banks were not running in loss till their privatization in 1991. What you are saying is post privatized situation which is again debatable for illegally handing over banks to present owners. Blaming all dirt and horse sh1te created by haamis of JI, its by product such as chor, uchaka, stealer of government money and land and last but not the least paying dick taxes on stolen wealth. Bhutto was the best leader ever produced by Pakistan as compared to rapers and thugs of the country, like N$.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/406873_465497440155481_1096052452_n.jpg

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

I just had to quote this.

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

Sachadino, Sorry, slogans are not enough. Might work on illiterate haris working for wadairas of PPP, not here.

I have already asked you several time. Once more:

Please provide a reliable source of information, evidence, facts or independent research saying nationalization was good for Pakistan's economy in long term and nationalized industries performed better than private corporations.

(no slogans or family pictures please and get the previous sentence translated by someone if difficult to understand ).

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

Suddenly jumped from nowhere. Read again my post and offer comments if you have guts to offer.

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

I have already replied to your question. Nationalization he done because he promised in his election campaign and was important part of PPP's agenda at that time. Dr. Mubbashar Hasan was architect of that program. Bhutto was not allowed to continue and he was murdered. Had he be allowed to continue, perhaps things now you are facing in present Pakistan might have been different and much much better. However blaming all evils committed by chor uchakay from Punjab on Bhutto is not fair either. I have given you the proof that both banks MCB and UBL were running in profit till their privatization in the nineties. These are the facts, you don't need any website for that.

Coming back to nationalization vs free enterprise, the situation have been considerably changed. America is now only the world super power as compared to when there was a balance, when USSR was also a super power. In present circumstances country like Pakistan best suited for free enterprise with definitely certain functions such as education and health should be government financed to provide health and education to poor population of Pakistan. Pakistan does not need to spend on army any more. Gradually the funds should diverted from army to education and health. What money spent on army now should be reduced to 50-30%.

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

^ No independent, reliable source. Sorry, I am not even going to read this blabber.

Obviously you do not understand what I have asked for several times. No point continuing. Thanks. Bye.

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

And what is that independent, reliable source? Can you spell out too?

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

Red portions of your posts are not relevant to nationalization. They relate to irregularities in privatization and we can discuss them in another thread. I can provide several studies in economics talking about the negative effects of nationalization on Pakistan's economy (have provided a few already).

I do not want YOUR answers. Those are declarations YOU are making which carry absolutely no weight at all. For the last time, find a dictionary and look up 'independent', 'facts', 'evidence' and 'reliable'. BYE.

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

Then don't ask, what you don't understand what you are talking about.

Re: Bhutto’s Nationalization policy

The way privatization was carried out is one thing like Kaka rightly pointed out, but the way the banks have performed is another.

Here’s State banks report on the privatization of banks.

Banking sector of Pakistan has been transformed within a short period of 5 years
(CY2000-05) from a sluggish and government-dominated sector to a much more agile,
competitive and profitable industry. Speed and sequencing of banking sector
transformation and its role in promoting economic growth is now a leading story of a
sector success. Within Pakistan it offers a story of what effective leadership of regulator
and change management and corporate governance can achieve and offer.

The astounding growth of banking sector has stimulated and leveraged growth
across the board. Major reforms in the banking sector have resulted in a more resilient
and efficient financial system that is better placed to absorb significant macroeconomic
shocks. Confidence in banking sector performance and prospects remains strong and
scope for expansion and diversification remains phenomenal.

Growth in Banking Sector and its profitability is unprecedented. Banking assets
rose three-fold over the last 5 years and industry size is reaching Rs4 trillion. The
banking sector’s assets to GDP ratio grew from 47.2% in CY00 to 55.6% in CY05 since
the growth in banking assets outpaced the nominal GDP; these trends are in sharp
contrast from the declining trend in banks’ assets to GDP ratio during the second half of
the 1990s. Supported by privatization and consolidation, assets of the banking sector
have shifted from public to private sector and there is a decline in asset concentration
within the banking sector. This changing structure had far-reaching implications for the
banking sector profitability.

  1. Return on banking assets before taxes have grown to 2.6% (1.8% after tax)
    relative to 0.2% in CY00 and return on equity has been 25.4%.

Re: Bhutto’s Nationalization policy

While the banks of the country posted healthy profits in 2011 let us see the status of the corporations currently being run by the government.

Wapda currently has circular debt of 370 billion and its increasing to the tune of 15-20 billion per month.

Pakistan Railways suffered 52 billion lossbetween 2008 and 2011.

PIA’s losses have swelled to92 billion.

Pakistan Steel Mills have suffered losses of 71.4 billion during the past four years.

**ISLAMABAD: ****Five public sector enterprises are either operating without a governing board, or are run by unskilled persons. In the latter case, retired or serving bureaucrats, or unqualified but politically well-connected individuals, have been appointed to run these enterprises. According to sources, these entities have collectively caused Rs393 billion in losses to the national exchequer during four years of the Pakistan Peoples Party government.

**
These entities include Pakistan Railways (PR), Pakistan International Airlines (PIA), Pakistan Steel Mills (PSM), Pakistan Agriculture Storage and Services Corporation (Passco), and the National Highway Authority (NHA).

Furthermore, losses incurred by Pepco due to subsidies– estimated at Rs1.2 trillion by the finance ministry – are not included in this assessment.

Measures like the establishment of the Cabinet Committee on Restructuring (CCOR), headed by Finance Minister Dr Abdul Hafeez Shaikh, failed to achieve lasting improvements in these corporations.

A special wing of the finance ministry – the Economic Reforms Unit – also failed to effect any positive change in these loss-making corporations.

**National Highway Authority

**
The entity recorded Rs150 billion in losses during the four years under review – the highest among the five. When the PPP took over the government, the NHA recorded annual losses of Rs30 billion. These surged to Rs33.5 billion in 2008, Rs35.3 billion in 2009, Rs44.4 billion in 2010 and Rs36.5 billion in the last fiscal year, according to the official report.

**Pakistan International Airlines

**
The national flag-carrier’s accumulative financial losses in three years and nine months stood at Rs81 billion. In 2007, the entity’s annual losses had been registered at Rs13.4 billion. These surged to Rs36.1 billion in 2008, Rs4.9 billion in 2009, Rs20.8 billion in 2010 and Rs 19.3 billion losses in nine months of last year.

PIA stands out as a bad case in nepotism. Minister for Defence Ahmad Mukhtar is chairman of the board, and the government recently appointed retired Air Marshal Rao Qamar Suleman as the new managing director. The four directors of the board are qualified with, at most, a bachelor’s degree. Malik Nazir Ahmad has a Bachelor of Arts (BA) degree; he was appointed in March 2008. Javed Akhtar and Makhdoom Syed Ahmad Mahmood also hold a bachelor’s degree. The latter is a Member of the Punjab Assembly, and his profile reads that “he has extensively travelled abroad”. Syed Yousaf Waqar has a bachelor’s degree in business administration. Secretary Finance Abdul Wajid Rana is also a member of the board.

**Pakistan Steel Mills

**
From 2009 to 2011, PSM’s accumulated losses stood at Rs49.5 billion. The country’s largest industrial unit was in profit up to 2008, but political appointments have led to the near collapse of the behemoth. In 2009, it suffered Rs26.5 billion in losses; the figure came down to Rs11.5 billion in 2010, and was ‘sustained’ at this level in 2011.

Out of the members of the board, five are either serving or retired bureaucrats. The chairman of the board, Fazalullah Qureshi, is a retired federal secretary. Two members of the board are owners of steel mills. Mahreen Razaque Bhutto, an MNA on a PPP ticket, is also a member of the Board.

**Pakistan Railways

**
PR incurred Rs96 billion in losses during the reviewed period. Before the government took over, its annual losses stood at Rs15.2 billion. This figure ballooned to Rs16.9 billion in 2008, Rs23 billion in 2009, Rs25 billion in 2010 and Rs31.1 billion during the last fiscal year. The government has only recently constituted a board of directors for the entity.

**PASSCO

**
Passco recorded Rs34.6 billion in losses during the reviewed period. During the last year of the Musharraf government, Passco suffered Rs2.5 billion losses. The figure swelled to Rs3.4 billion in 2008, Rs3.3 billion in 2009, Rs 13.8 billion in 2010 and Rs14.1 billion in 2011.

A serving Federal Secretary, Shafqat Hussain Nagmi, is chairman of the Passco board; while a serving Major General, Shohail Shafqat, is the managing director of the entity. Three bankers are also members of the board.

Published in The Express Tribune, April 24[SUP]th[/SUP], 2012.

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

1) Obviously you don't read yourself what you post my friend:

[quote]
At the press Conference called to announce the sale of MCB to the National Group, Finance Minister Sartaj Aziz said that two highest bids were rejected because the bidders had failed to disclose the source of their income.
[/quote]

Coming back to Adamjees.. yes they were a big business house at the time of partition. They lost a major chunk of their business empire at the time of formation of Bangladesh including the paper mill. Bulk of the rest was lost to nationalization thanks to your cult leader Z.A.Bhutto. The family got so dis hearted that they left Pakistan and the remaining part of their business was in dire straits. Adamjee Textile had already defaulted big time prior to 1991 and was liquidated and sold to present owners the Gul Ahmad group. The present name of Adamjee Textile is Al Karam textile which was revived over the years by present management and is a strong business entity today.

Under the circumstances they could not come up with a disclosed source of funding.. therefore the bank was handed over to the most deserving third bidders which comprised reputable business houses who could justify this purchase through legitimate business income. Twenty years after the privatization the decision stands fully justified which your dubious web site projects as a racist decision in favor of Chinioti businessmen which is far from truth.

Shafi Tanneries, Universal Leather, and Din are Karachi based business houses who are doing business from Karachi for last 80 years. If after 80 years of generating employment, work from Karachi you label them as non sindhi, it depicts a sick racist mentality. Bashir Jan Mohammad is a Karachi based Memon who later went on to buy Dalda from Lever Brothers. He is considered the king of Palm oil from Malaysia even today. Sitara, Arshad Corporation and Bebe Jan are all non Chinioti Faisalabad based business houses. It was only in the later years that Mian mansha bought out the stakes from a lot of these original partners and took his stake in MCB to more than 42%..

2) The nominal profits you are boasting from the banks prior to privatization are irrelevant because prudential regulation were not in place at that time. It was only after privatization proper prudential regulations were enforced. What does it mean..???
It means prior to enforcement of prudential regulations all the infected portfolios of the banks were shown in the asset side of the financial statement thus enhancing fictitious profits. It was only after the enforcement of prudential regulations that these were transferred to NPLs. Now if a loan is not serviced for two or three quarters there is a CIB report which is made restricting all the banking entities to stop giving any advances to defaulting party, Moreover after a certain number of quarters the loans are shifted to NPLs which decrease the profit of the banks subsequently. Prior to privatization state owned banks had a big problem with political motivated dispensing of loans which mostly ended up as NPLs. Moreover proper valuation of collaterals was insured through prudential regulations. Despite of all these prudential regulations.. state owned banks till today continue to perform very bad in terms of advancing loans. More than 72 billion of state owned BOP funds were placed in wrong hands in Musharraf era (famous Harris Steel case included), and State owned NBPs NPL portfolio is larger than all the privatized banks combined.

So much for your support of nationalized banks.. probably you are the only person left in this country who still is daring to support the nationalization of banks..!!!

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

I think I should take your advice..

Jiyalas don't believe in reasoning..

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

Bhutto was an opportunist who exploited the global wave against business houses. he destroyed the business, investment, innovation, work atmosphere in Pakistan to ensure his ascend to power. His nationalization policies took back the country decades.. and even today we have not been able to come out of the consequences of those opportunist policies of nationalization...

P.S. I am ignoring your racist remarks that all the chor uchakay are from Punjab just like your earlier remark that businessmen are "Sulatana Dakoo.."

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

You can't argue with people like him...people who hero worship leaders & can never see any faults with them...there is name for it. Its called cult. Faithfuls in cult usually blindly follow a leader & this is a classic example of it & no amount of logical argument will convince him otherwise.

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

You should thank the law and order situation of Karachi, which forced many industries and industrialists to shift from Karachi to Punjab in the 90's. Many Punjabi businessmen who were an integral part of Karachi's industrial scene left the city, and invested elsewhere in the country.

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

Jiyalo ke pass konsi source agyi
They just know how to worship Bhutto and nothing else trust me