Bhutto's Nationalization policy

Re: Bilawal to step into electoral politics on Dec 27

So dictators and other hamis of JI were not giving free money, free job with no work required. One more time look at the tenure of Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan, Zia-ul-Haq and Mush. ZAB was blessing as compared to these dacoo lovers of capitalism. Again I prefer 1000 times nationalization policy as compared to these scumbags who not only loot but also raped the country.

Re: Bilawal to step into electoral politics on Dec 27

I am very much stayed on the topic. Tell me what you have to say about economy of Pakistan after departure of these two dictators mentioned in red. You don't talk about the real looters and rapers of country who actually not only destroyed the economy but also involved in breakup of Pakistan but you keep on trumpeting the murli against ZAB's few years of nationalization program. He only nationalized Banks, few heavy industries and educational institution. Zia-ul-Haq came in reversed all the development what ZAB's tenure seen.

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

But people of Pakistan still prefer to vote his party to power, perhaps screwing up your above idea. Isn't it?

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

That is his personal view. The thread is about camouflaging the real destroyers and rapers of economy and country. Read my posts in red parts. I will happy to accept if red parts are proved wrong.

Re: Bilawal to step into electoral politics on Dec 27

So when country was going through "industrialization" phase, are you saying the industries were setup using public money? Besides, I don't approve of even that what you are alleging 'dictators and other hamis of JI .....', I condemn what is wrong. You would prefer 1000 times nationalization policy because you are a jiyala, you would want people to get jobs at the cost of profitability, efficiency, hardwork of others.

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

I said that because of your untrue sweeping statement. Compare your statement with the red parts of my posts and then write. Since the thread is about nationalization and economy of Pakistan, I have provided the facts who destroyed the economy even ZAB was not in the picture. No one wants to talk about the real problems. It has always been a policy of hamis of JI to blame Bhutto for everything because he is an easy escape goat politician from Sindh to hide the sins of real culprits.

Re: Bilawal to step into electoral politics on Dec 27

I can see you are staying on topic!!! :omg:

BTW, Bhutto was foreign minister and right hand man of first dictator (also known as DADDY), close friend of the second and was part establishment when we decided military action against East Pakistan. We can discuss that in another thread though. This is history, not propaganda.

‘Development’? What development. I’ve been asking you for independent study saying what Bhutto did was beneficial to Pakistan. You cannot produce that and keep crying.

Buhuhuhuhuhu… ‘others’ were also bad. STOP WHINING please.

Re: Bilawal to step into electoral politics on Dec 27

NO that is not true. I am comparing economy during ZAB's time with before and after him. ZAB's time was much superb than these scumbags.

Re: Bhutto’s Nationalization policy

Ex Crime Minister on Nationalization during Bhutto’s time. If it was so good, my question again is who is stopping the current regime for initiating it again?

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

EDITORIAL: Nationalisation: a mistake?
**Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani termed the nationalisation of educational institutions in 1972 a ‘mistake’. Speaking at the death anniversary of Zamindar College founder Nawab Sir Fazal Ali in Gujrat, Mr Gilani said that “it was a wrong move, and we cannot move forward without admitting our mistakes”. There is indeed nothing wrong in admitting mistakes committed by his party in the past, but talking glibly or superficially on this subject is not doing justice to Zulfikar Ali Bhutto’s nationalisation drive either. Nationalisation may not have succeeded back then but we cannot consider it a failure without closer examination. It was not nationalisation that failed but the way it was implemented led to its failure. **

Bhutto’s party, the Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) swept West Pakistan on the heels of the euphoria of the late 1960s when socialist ideas and even talk of revolution were in the air. The PPP came up with a socialist manifesto, which appealed to the masses who were looking for social change. In 1971, ‘gharibi hataao’ (eradicate poverty) was the slogan used by Indira Gandhi during her election campaign in India. Bhutto’s ‘roti, kapra aur makaan’ (bread, clothing and shelter) slogan was an imitation of Ms Gandhi’s slogans. Mr Bhutto also tried to copy the Nehruvian model of development. He was under the impression that since it was a success in India, the same would be the case in Pakistan. But we faltered because of a number of reasons, more so because of the second round of nationalisation.

**The first round of nationalisation was a relative success when Bhutto’s government nationalised the commanding heights of economy — insurance, banking and commerce sectors as well as heavy industry. The mistake that Bhutto made was handing over of these entities to the bureaucracy instead of professional corporate management. Our bureaucracy was the steel frame of the British Empire but has always been incapable of running businesses. By not bringing in professional people to run the nationalised sector, the first round of nationalisation failed due to the corrupt bureaucracy and pressure of trade unions. In the second round of nationalisation, Bhutto made the mistake of nationalising small and medium industry. This led to annoying the small trader who then became the backbone of the Pakistan National Alliance (PNA) movement, which also included the propertied class who were already against Bhutto because of land reforms and nationalisation.
**
Nationalising schools and colleges in 1972 was a good move by Mr Bhutto. It was the haphazard way in which it was done that unravelled a good policy. Most private schools and colleges in Pakistan were run by missionaries. Once they were nationalised, most missionary teachers left and we were unable to replace them with qualified staff. The lack of teacher training programmes was another factor that contributed to the fall in the standard of public education. Some of the nationalised institutions have either been completely or partially privatised in recent years, leading to an increase in fees. Lack of planning resulted in chaos. Education is the right of every child but the low literacy rate in Pakistan is proof that our state has failed in making it either free or at the very least affordable to all. High literacy rates can lead to an end of child and bonded labour and development.

The wave of neo-liberalism in recent decades has infected the PPP, which is why Prime Minister Gilani and his ilk talk about the benefits of privatisation. Instead of dubbing nationalisation of schools and colleges as a mistake, the prime minister should think of the negative effects of private sector education. It has created a disparity between the rich and the poor. We need to abandon our elitist mindset and come up with social welfare policies in the interests of universal literacy and education. *

Re: Bilawal to step into electoral politics on Dec 27

for haram khors.

Re: Bilawal to step into electoral politics on Dec 27

You are comparing before and after.... afterwards was definitely a disastrous because of geo-political scene (Afghan war) but in Ayub's era we saw industrialization which was then used by ZAB to "nationalize" and "create millions of jobs" to fulfil half the promise of 'roti kapra aur makan'. Had there been no industrialization Bhutto would not be as "popular".

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

Major problems with nationalization:

-- Private investors scared away. No investments in Pakistan post-nationalization in Bhutto time.

-- We all know how 'efficiently' jiyalas run the government organizations. The nationalized Banks and industry were a major burden on Pakistan's economy for many years to come.

-- The nationalization was selective. Political opponents were targeted. Textiles (run by landlords mostly) industry was exempted.

-- No land reforms (landlords supported PPP). Cannot really have socialist reforms without land reforms and eradicating feudalism.

Bhutto Shaheed ne farmaya: "From Napoleon I imbibe the politics of power; from the pamphlet (Karl Marx’s Communist Manifesto) I absorbed the politics of power"

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

Theory and practical are two different things. You can not convince me by writing these meaningless phrases. What I know is that people were happy during ZAB time, I give a damn about his nationalization policy, that is the bottom line. I don't like the view you propagate to suck the blood of poor people to show how the economy was good in capitalist system provided by rapists and destroyers of the country.

Re: Bilawal to step into electoral politics on Dec 27

**

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

If you sell your house, car and other assets. Take all your money and go have fun in a lovely island in Thailand for a few months, you'll be happy in those months but would suffer later.

Then you should not be participating in this thread. This thread is specifically about that nationalization policy.

You might love Bhutto a lot but he was a human being, prone to all weaknesses people have. You need to accept that he can make mistakes and blunders (his own supporters agree that nationalization was a mistake). This thread is not criticizing his other policies or comparing them to other. If we do not learn from history, we're bound to make the same mistakes again.

Wars with India were terrible mistakes. I agree with that. Does that mean I should not talk about other mistakes made in Pakistan's history?

Re: Bhutto’s Nationalization policy

It is funny on one hand you address him as Crime Minister and on the other hand perusing and supporting his line of thinking. Aren’t you also becoming a partner with his crimes then?

Back to topic as I said it is his personal statement, without going into detail why nationalization of institutions were done in ZAB’s time. You have to understand that education up to 12th grade in America, Canada and developed countries is run by public schools. Majority population is educated through this system. If capitalist country like America has public schooling system, why not in Pakistan? You guys unnecessarily demonizing the policy of nationalization in the hatred of ZAB, nothing else. Nationalization has its own merits too. Look at different perspective.

PILER condemns Prime Minister’s statement on nationalization of education in Pakistan - South Asia Citizens Web

**Says PM statement contradicts 18th amendment; amounts to denying the right to education for all; is an insult to millions of children excluded from the education system because of poor governance

Karachi, Oct. 31, 2010: Pakistan Institute of Labour Education and Research (PILER) has expressed shock and disappointment at the Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani’s statement in Lahore yesterday terming the policy of nationalization of education undertaken in 1970s as “wrong and mistake”.

“The statement comes from the elected Prime Minster of a country that has one of the lowest spending on education in the world at 1.9 percent of Gross Domestic Product. The sentiments expressed by Mr. Gilani are appalling and completely out of sync with the Constitution as well as his position as democratically elected Prime Minister of the country, whose job it is to protect the interests of the people of the country,” said a statement released by PILER on Sunday, following PM’s remarks that appeared in the press today.

Taking exception to the Mr. Gilani’s remarks about the poor quality of education at government schools, the PILER office said that quality of education is no excuse for handing over the responsibility of education to the private sector that makes education inaccessible to the large section of the population. Pakistan has the lowest net enrollment ratio of the 0.65 in South Asia. Thirty percent of all those enrolled in primary schools have no prospects of making it to grade five. The population of age group 10-12 years is approximately 27 million out of which over 21 million are out of schools. Pakistan has the highest school dropout ratio in the region. The country which has been labeled by international bodies as one of the most illiterate nations in Asia will certainly not benefit in any way if the state abdicates its duty of providing basic facilities to its citizens, including education and health.

The PILER statement pointed out that the much celebrated amendment in the Constitution, the 18th Amendment has gone on to add the provision for free education in the Constitution. The Article 25, which pertains to the right to equality of all citizens, clearly outlines right to education for all in Section A: “The State shall provide free education to all children of age 5 to 16 years in such a manner as may be determined by law.” The Prime Minister has some explaining to do if he thinks that the state has no role in providing education to children, since his statement actually contradicts the Constitution.

The PILER Office further said that the PM’s statement is an insult to 10 million children engaged in child labour and millions of others who are excluded from the education system because of inefficiencies of the government. “While these children continue to pay the price for state’s failures, the state has the audacity to tell them it has no responsibility whatsoever toward their welfare and future.”

PILER pointed out that the PM’s recent expressions may be his own personal thoughts, but he has no mandate to impose that on the nation till required amendments are made in the Constitution. “After the 18th Amendment, the Constitution officially recognizes right to free and compulsory education for all citizens and there is no way to provide that except through the state education system. One cannot expect private enterprises to provide free education to children. If the PM is keen to pursue the interest of commercial education enterprises, he will have to take a Constitutional route and propose necessary amendments in the Constitution before the house of elected representatives and seek their approval. The 1970s policy of nationalization was carried out by an elected leadership through the mandate of the public. General Ziaul Haq, a dictator reversed the policy, violating the Constitution by launching a denationalization drive. This is typical of a dictator, who treated Constitution as nothing more than a piece of paper. However, Mr. Gilani is democratically elected PM and is answerable to the nation on why he thinks the state should not uphold the right to education of its citizens.”

PILER also condemned Sindh Government’s recent announcement to shut down 1100 schools run by the state terming them “non-viable” and “non-feasible.” “The state under the leadership of Pakistan Peoples Party led coalition government is pursing a very exclusionary and unreasonable policy indicating that it is here to promote the interests of a select section of the population only. We at PILER strongly condemn this move and we will take it up at relevant platforms since this amounts to denying a fundamental constitutional right to a large section of the public.”

**

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

Bhutto left the scene in 1977. 35 years of capitalism has given nothing to Pakistan except terrorism, ethnic cleansing, sectarian wars, hunger, inflation, misery and sadness. I prefer nationalization over terrorism. Keep you sh!ty theory of vacation with you and continue to suffer at the hands of terrorists and blood suckers.

[quote]
Then you should not be participating in this thread. This thread is specifically about that nationalization policy.

You might love Bhutto a lot but he was a human being, prone to all weaknesses people have. You need to accept that he can make mistakes and blunders (his own supporters agree that nationalization was a mistake). This thread is not criticizing his other policies or comparing them to other. If we do not learn from history, we're bound to make the same mistakes again.

Wars with India were terrible mistakes. I agree with that. Does that mean I should not talk about other mistakes made in Pakistan's history?
[/quote]

The thread was created already from existing one ( Bilawal) thread because of my comments on nationalization vs economy. I am the last person to argue with you on the lies you keep on posting against ZAB.

Yes ZAB committed mistakes as he was human being like you. But his mistakes were not deliberate like hamis of JI and dictators. Should be condemned for their crimes against Pakistan. ZAB looks an angel as compared to these Iblis you are indirectly supporting and praising here.

If you consider yourself as an honest person you should talk about these wars and their impacts on Pakistani society too as they can not be isolated what you are saying here.

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

ZAB destroyed the economy through nationalization and introduced culture of corruption that is cancer eating the country even today.

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

I have yet to understand that dogli hypocrite paki mentality. Why do you want to support the party whose leader had destroyed the Pakistan's economy?

[quote]

**5: Which political party do you support and why? Please explain the reasons in case if you do not support any party.
**I don’t really support any political groups per se, but I think compare to other parties PPP is still the best option (mainly because of it’s a secular national party).
[/quote]

Re: Bhutto's Nationalization policy

I guess there is a difference between blind worship and political leanings for political parties.