beyond sep 11th

Iqbal1089 · August 12, 2002, 12:02pm

[quote]
Originally posted by clubber lang:
**
In order to map out a clear path for Muslims in the West, Hizb ut-Tahrir Britain will embark upon a national campaign explaining the true Role of Muslims in the West...
inshallah there will be confrence on this isue LONDON-ARENA-DOCKLANDS.UK 11AM 8PM.
**
[/quote]

I remember Hizb ut-Tahrir holding a Khilafah conference last year (or it could have been the year prior) where on all the advertising posters pasted around London they cited a hadith in which Allah's Messenger (s) is supposed to have said:

"I feel a cool breeze from Al-Hind."

The poster said the hadith is recorded in Sunan Abu Dawud. I asked every HT brother i met and even emailed the conference organisers at least five times for a reference for this hadith as to where exactly in Sunan Abu Dawud it is recorded. I never got a single reply. I then noticed that the next set of conference posters mysteriously had the reference to Abu Dawud completely omitted and they took it down from the web site as well.

Does anyone - particularly from HT (you do remember the poster don't you?) - know where this hadith is recorded and which hadith scholars have verified its authenticity?

Jazakullahu khair.

Iqbal

jonny2mad · August 12, 2002, 12:25pm

I found the site just randomly looking round and the guy running it has issued a challenge to muslims to debate with him.
and remember this challenge is made while he is likely to be killled for leaving islam.

and I have never said that the chrusades didnt happen but there was wrong on BOTH SIDES .

Islam was involved in the slave trade we dont see films about it like we do about slaves in america .

but a equal number of slaves were taken by muslims as christians and muslims started and were involved in the african slave trade for 600 years before europeans .

It may be the reason we dont hear about this is that christians felt guilty and stamped out the slave trade INCLUDING in some islamic countrys .

where do you think the arabs got all the castrated guys for theyre harems .
not meny free men want to be castrated .
do a search on the role of islam in the arab and european slave trade .

very likely some of your ancestors were involved in it either as slaves or slave masters .

and Im not trying to get at you or make anyone feel guilty because your not .I have ancestors in the 1600-1700 who were involved in slavery to.
http://f.about.com/z/js/spr03.htm

clubber_lang · August 12, 2002, 1:42pm

jhony did u say there was a challange?

[This message has been edited by clubber lang (edited August 12, 2002).]

clubber_lang · August 12, 2002, 1:44pm

[quote]
Originally posted by jonny2mad:
you just seem to want to kill people kafras are human too.
I dont want to kill muslims but I am straight with people I think mohammed was a phoney.
but that isnt the big thing its the fact that islam teaches people to kill anyone that wants to leave .
Even in europe there have been murders of muslims that have left islam ,there have even been murders of women that have broken islamic dress code
and if you are open about leaveing or state publically that you think islam is fake you are seting yourself up to be killed .
why would god need some thug to murder people who wanted to leave his religion .
and why would such a thug go to heaven when a good man like gandi who never killed anyone but is a kafra is to go to hell .
[/quote]

I am still waiting for u to prove that killing is bad.

Seminole · August 12, 2002, 2:09pm

[quote]
Originally posted by clubber lang:
** I am still waiting for u to prove that killing is bad.**
[/quote]

If you need jonny2mad to prove to you that killing is bad, then you have some serious moral issues to deal with. I suggest you re-read your Holy Book. If you still aren't convinced that killing is bad, I strongly reccomend you find yourself a different Holy Book.

clubber_lang · August 12, 2002, 3:19pm

[quote]
Originally posted by Seminole:
** If you need jonny2mad to prove to you that killing is bad, then you have some serious moral issues to deal with. I suggest you re-read your Holy Book. If you still aren't convinced that killing is bad, I strongly reccomend you find yourself a different Holy Book.

**
[/quote]

So can u prove to me that killing its self is a bad action.
Id like to see u try. but u wont get very far.

OldLahori · August 12, 2002, 3:42pm

[quote]
Originally posted by clubber lang:
** So can u prove to me that killing its self is a bad action.
Id like to see u try. but u wont get very far.**
[/quote]

Do you think killing is bad or not, regardless of how you arrive at that conclusion? Are you implying that killing is bad when it is sanctioned to be bad by Allah, and is good when it is sanctioned by Allah?

jonny2mad · August 12, 2002, 3:54pm

Somewhere on the faithfreedomsite that I posted a link to there was a challenge by the guy who runs the site to debate with him I think useing the koran .
And if you can win the challenge he says he will take down the site and make an apology.
I have nothing to do with the site but joined it a few days ago because I thought it was interesting.
The guy running it is an ex Muslim and he most likely knows more about the Koran than me because I come from a Christian background.
Although I am now a non believer. Ive found a few other non believing ex Muslim humanist sites about.
There are some good ones from secular Iranian opposition groups that Ive found interesting.

OldLahori · August 12, 2002, 4:12pm

[quote]
Originally posted by jonny2mad:
**Somewhere on the faithfreedomsite that I posted a link to there was a challenge by the guy who runs the site to debate with him I think useing the koran .
And if you can win the challenge he says he will take down the site and make an apology.
I have nothing to do with the site but joined it a few days ago because I thought it was interesting.
The guy running it is an ex Muslim and he most likely knows more about the Koran than me because I come from a Christian background.
Although I am now a non believer. Ive found a few other non believing ex Muslim humanist sites about.
There are some good ones from secular Iranian opposition groups that Ive found interesting.

**
[/quote]

Frankly discussions like these are moot, simply because people come to them with their minds made up and there is nothing that can be said that would change even an iota. However, I am glad as an American that the Internet is providing an oppertunity for people to interact more and get to know each views. Occasionaly there will be one or two isolated cases of people who were in the process of going through a radical change will get infuenced. But most of times it is like water off a duck's back. You can see that people still convert to Islam and will post their testemonials to that effect all over the net. I know about the faithfreedom site. I will appreciate if you personal message the URL's of the sites from the iranian opposition groups. Lately I have been interested in what is happening in Iran and the 'social churning' it is going through. The latest case of Aghajeri is absolutely fascinating.

Seminole · August 12, 2002, 11:04pm

[quote]
Originally posted by clubber lang:
** So can u prove to me that killing its self is a bad action.
Id like to see u try. but u wont get very far.**
[/quote]

Quran

4:29 O ye who believe! Squander not your wealth among yourselves in vanity, except it be a trade by mutual consent, and kill not one another. Lo! Allah is ever Merciful unto you.

4:93 Whoso slayeth a believer of set purpose, his reward is Hell for ever. Allah is wroth against him and He hath cursed him and prepared for him an awful doom.

5:32 For that cause We decreed for the Children of Israel that whosoever killeth a human being for other than man slaughter or corruption in the earth, it shall be as if be had killed all mankind

17:33 And slay not the life which Allah hath forbidden save with right. Whoso is slain wrongfully, We have given power unto his heir, but let him not commit excess in slaying. Lo! he will be helped.

Bible
"Don't you know that you yourselves are God's
temple and that God's Spirit lives in you? if anyone destroys God's temple, God will destroy him; for God's temple is sacred, and you are that temple."
1 Corinthians 3

"Thou shall not kill"
The Ten Commandments
Exodus 12: 1-17 & Deuteronomy 5: 6-21

But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, and pray for those who spitefully use you. To him who strikes you on the one cheek offer the other also. And from him who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either. Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back. And just as you want men to do to you, do you also do to them likewise."
Luke 6: 27- 31

Do not avenge yourselves, but rather give place to wrath; for it is written 'Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,' says the Lord"
Rom. 12:19

"But love your enemies, do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Highest. For He is kind to the unthankful and evil. Therefore be merciful, just as your Father also is merciful."
Luke 6:35-36

Iqbal1089 · August 14, 2002, 10:34am

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Iqbal1089: *
*

Does anyone - particularly from HT (you do remember the poster don't you?) - know where this hadith is recorded and which hadith scholars have verified its authenticity?
**
[/QUOTE]

Anyone from HT had any joy in finding this hadith?

Iqbal

clubber_lang · August 14, 2002, 10:35am

hi

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Seminole: *
*