http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif
[This message has been edited by Paxtani Mentality (edited August 10, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by clubber lang:
how can u have any respect for these kaffir fillthy dogs[evan calling them dogs must a insult to dogs].
[/quote]
Allah Most High says in His glorious Book:
"Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and fair preaching and argue with them in ways that are better." (16:125)
Whereas the sign of the hypocrite is that when he argues he "behaves insolently" as mentioned in the Prophetic hadith recorded in Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim.
Iqbal
Any westerner who criticizes Islam does so outside of a thorough knowledge and context of it's logic, raison d' etre and history.
Any Muslim who is frustrated by a westerner and their distance from religion must realize the intense campaign waged against them.
According to you Gandhi is a kafra dog he didn't go around raping anybody or killing.
And if you read anything about the history of Islam that's what quite a lot of Muslims have done.
Christians have done the same kind of thing to and in some parts of the world they still are for example in Russia.
Personally I dont want to kill anybody and if a book told me I had to conquer the world by military force to make everybody agree with me.
I wouldn't do it especially when my opposition had enough nuclear weapons to kill every body on this planet.
and the sign on the forum is religion not just Islam
and I dont see this campaign waged against islam .
[This message has been edited by jonny2mad (edited August 10, 2002).]
Clubber Lang...i think it is important to understand the role of non Muslims in the Islamic state. The spilling of blood that you speak about is only permissable on the battlefield with the armies. I assume that is what you meant and in that case in war with the kaffir then what you said is fine.
The beauty of the Islamic state is the number of Kuffar who came to Islam due to the beauty of the system of Islam and the fact that everyone was given the same rights regardless of creed, colour, caste etc.
Our Rasul said to harm a citizen of the state was like harming him. So an Islamic state will not bring about murder of citiznes who live under Islam although what it will bring is Islamic armies who propagate the Deen and kill the Kuffar armies on the battlefield.
According to you Gandhi is a kafra dog he didn't go around raping anybody or killing.
And if you read anything about the history of Islam that's what quite a lot of Muslims have done.
History of "Islam" you say? As far as Islam is concerned, Muslims were prohibited from destroying the opponent's environment (lakes,forest, etc) And harming aged people (not involved in the battle), women, children, and so on... How does that fit into the category of rape?
Personally I dont want to kill anybody and if a book told me I had to conquer the world by military force to make everybody agree with me.
I wouldn't do it especially when my opposition had enough nuclear weapons to kill every body on this planet.
Yo wouldn't kill anyone if a book told you to conquer everybody to make them agree with you...? Well... It seems that your decision is for personal reason(s)... And as far as Nuclear weapons are concerned, Knowlegde and Faith is more important to us than weapons as it is our shield... And by the way, who said we wanted to conquer the world? Our duty is merely to warn our fellow beings and make them realise (and that with the help and will of Allah (swt)) that the Path they have taken is going to lead them to Hell not Heaven... If Allah wills the whole universe would become lead to the truth, but He (swt) is testing us...
and the sign on the forum is religion not just Islam
and I dont see this campaign waged against islam .
Of course, we are encouraged to discuss various beliefs, but is seems that many are interested into talking about some "Islamic" related aspects, no? If you ask me, the only reason I come here, on this "religion section" is so that I might learn/share/help/advice anyone on Islam, if I am able to...
Islam has one of the bloodiest history of oppression possible almost as bad as Christian history.
the difference between us is you either dont know your history or are in denial
in the Koran its says that a man can have sex with the slave girl that his right hand takes and millions of women were taken as sex slaves during the khilafa from eastern Europe and just about anywhere else that was considered kafr.
if you kill a women’s family and make her a slave do you think that it is likely for her to freely give her consent to sleep with you
there is well documented evidence that Islam spread through force and aggressive war.
you had 3 choices
convert and become a Muslim
2. pay very high taxes and live as a second class citizen
3. be beheaded or crucified
4. or fight back
loot being brought back into the system kept it alive until the khilafa stopped conquering and then it gradually imploded .
[quote]
Originally posted by jonny2mad:
**
there is well documented evidence that Islam spread through force and aggressive war. **
[/quote]
According to a Times article in 1993, most British converts to Islam are women and most of them are aged between 30 and 50. Which Islamic army is currently in the UK forcibly converting these people?
In the same Times article it stated that women converts in America outnumber men by four to one. Which Islamic army is currently in the USA forcibly converting these helpless women?
Some years later the Daily Telegraph (3 Sept 2000) was reporting that a high proportion of the 1,500 to 2,500 converts to Islam in the UK each year are Catholics. Which Islamic army forced these Catholics to convert?
I have personally witnessed four conversions to Islam since September 11 by mature, educated individuals. Two of these were leading figures in society, another one was a banker and the other a former Christian. Which Islamic army forcibly converted these people?
Answers on a postcard please...
Iqbal
[quote]
Originally posted by s_H_e_I_k_H:
Clubber Lang...i think it is important to understand the role of non Muslims in the Islamic state. The spilling of blood that you speak about is only permissable on the battlefield with the armies. I assume that is what you meant and in that case in war with the kaffir then what you said is fine.
.
[/quote]
why asume when i specifically said on the battle field. if u kindly scroll back up to my post and see for ur self.
Jaa zaak allah
Christianity also spread through force to a great extent but sometimes through peaceful conversion.
but Islam like Christianity spread to a large extent through force. most likely some of your ancestors opposed Islam.
and how many of these converts to Islam are converts through marriage and convert because they love a man who is a Muslim.
and I wonder if many of these converts would convert if they fully understood what Islam stands for.
and how many stay in Islam, and how many of the children of converts stay.
And how many Muslims that come to Europe leave Islam.
My best friend is a Pakistani and his parents were brought up Muslim and are now none believers I know is father is an atheist.
Most of the growth in numbers in Europe doesn't come from conversion but from refugees or children of Muslims already in the country.
In America Islam is not the fastest growing religion and I very much doubt it is in Europe.
Ive seen figures for the number of Turks in Germany leaving Islam and if I were you Id be concerned
[quote]
Originally posted by jonny2mad:
**
and how many of these converts to Islam are converts through marriage and convert because they love a man who is a Muslim.**
[/quote]
You don't do yourself any favours by questioning people's sincerity as to why they might or might not have chosen a particular way of life.
[quote]
Originally posted by jonny2mad:
**
and I wonder if many of these converts would convert if they fully understood what Islam stands for.**
[/quote]
And now you are questioning people's intelligence!
[quote]
Most of the growth in numbers in Europe doesn't come from conversion but from refugees or children of Muslims already in the country.
[/quote]
You got any figures to substantiate that? In case you hadn't noticed, the examples i gave referred to adults who had made a conscious choice in choosing Islam.
[quote]
*In America Islam is not the fastest growing religion... *
[/quote]
No one said it was.
Iqbal
Jonny2mad
I've visited the faithfreedom site you keep plugging and am very impressed by it's 'inaccuracies' and open hatered.
Now that I know which angle you are coming from, I will be more than grateful to educate haters like you as well as play with your intellect!
If you want, you can paste anything from that hatemongers site in order to build your credibilty.
For starters, can you please confirm your credentials in Religion, Comparative Religion and Islamic Studies.
I await your answer.
Oh God. Muslims are bad people. War is peace. Red is Blue. And tommorow happened yesterday.
Quite intriguing how we are the rapists, looters and killers yet history damned Christans as the ‘Barbarians’.
Bless you. You’re two sandwiches short of a picnic.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
never touch a life if you mean to break a heart ! 
it depend what history you read .
and if you thinks that site is so inaccurate why dont you use it and try to help those people as well .
There is a open challenge to any muslim to debate with them .
[quote]
Originally posted by jonny2mad:
**it depend what history you read .
and if you thinks that site is so inaccurate why dont you use it and try to help those people as well .
There is a open challenge to any muslim to debate with them .
**
[/quote]
LOL. Depends what history you read? Does it 'eck !! Ever heard of the Crusades? 70,000 muslims slaughtered? ITs a well acknowledged and documented fact. Don't pick and choose what you want to believe just because it doesn't quite fit your ideology...
never touch a life if you mean to break a heart ! :)
Jonny2mad
Jonny my friend. What you fail to realise is that the site you plug will come and go 'dime a dozen'.
The Qur'aan has been here for over 1400 years and not one letter has been added or subtracted.
The site you advocate has been here for a few years and God only knows whats been added and subtracted!
If FaithFreedom honestly believe that they are right, then why on earth have they not met the challenge of the Qur'aan. The challenge is only 4 short sentences long! Most of there time is spent at bashing the personality of Mohammed SAW!
I doubt if even one of the moderators is versed in the Arabic language.
To be honest, until you pointed out there site, I'd never even heard of them!
If they are serious, they need to issue an open public challenge to Muslims and let Scholars from the Muslim world publicly rebut their claims. Not leave it to cut'n'pastes over the net and hide behind smoke screens.
However, if you feel up to the task and consider yourself an expert and representative of the site, then please feel free to continue with your arguments and counter arguments.
'The proof is always in the pudding'.
would pakistan have become voluntarily islamic if not invaded by arabs? would hinduism spread in india without the invasion of aryans from north?
Hey guys this thread posted to adivertise confrence. so dont forget to come down
Beyond September 11th
The Role of Muslims in the West
Since Bush arrogantly proclaimed, “Either you are with us or you are with the terrorists”, Muslims in the West have been compelled to make a stark choice - either to accept the phoney foundations of Bush’s crusade or alternatively to be labelled as the enemy.
The aftermath of September 11th has brought the brutal bombing of Afghanistan, the detention of Muslims at Guantanamo Bay, the formation of US bases in Central Asia, the green light for Sharon to crush the Muslims in Palestine, the training of government militias in Philippines, the preparation for war with Iraq, and the work to eradicate Islam as a political force in the world.
In the West, there have been widespread arrests and the internment of thousands of Muslims, the negative media portrayal of Islam, the rise of far-right immigration policies, the procurement of ‘Western friendly’ Muslim activists and the policy to integrate the Muslims into Western society.
With the spotlight falling on Muslims and Islam, Muslims need to answer some fundamental questions. Questions such as, “How should we view the West?” “Can we live in the West maintaining our Islam?” “What should we accept from the West and what should we reject?” “How do we channel our feelings towards the global Islamic Ummah?” “How do we present a true picture of Islam?”
The reality of Western culture is plain for all to see. Capitalism overshadows our lives, promising to bring the fruits of a great ‘civilisation’, but in reality eroding the very core values of Islam.
The West is characterised by emptiness, escapism and the breakdown of society. In Britain one in twenty women has been raped, child abuse is out of control and drug abuse and crime have become runaway statistics. What is our duty towards this?
In order to map out a clear path for Muslims in the West, Hizb ut-Tahrir Britain will embark upon a national campaign explaining the true Role of Muslims in the West.
For further information about this campaign, contact 0870 745 5639
inshallah there will be confrence on this isue LONDON-ARENA-DOCKLANDS.UK 11AM 8PM.
SO if all the gupis can come down and u will learn soild concepts