Re: Benazir is Back! Invitation to Foreign Forces
Does Mr. Khan knows that there is a cost attached with it, and that cost has to be carried by the people of Pakistan and not himself...
True that the cost associated to this will be carried out by people of Pak, but does financial+social+institutional+judictional cost that Pak people will suffer from electing a govt from a non-fair election out weighs the cost that you mentioned?
Re: Benazir is Back! Invitation to Foreign Forces
May be IK and his supporters thinks that Pakistan belongs to EU... in that case you are right!!!
you know what "forces" means, or are you saying anyone from EU is considered a "force"?
Re: Benazir is Back! Invitation to Foreign Forces
True that the cost associated to this will be carried out by people of Pak, but does financial+social+institutional+judictional cost that Pak people will suffer from electing a govt from a non-fair election out weighs the cost that you mentioned?
I would say, let the people of Pakistan suffer from their choices and let them develop the leadership from within, lets not depend on others to find right leader and govt... no nation learns to walk unless they try to walk, from last 60 years, it is them who are ensuring govts in our country, and the mess we are in is because of those govt and blunders ( we call it blunders but actually were result of treaties signed by the so-called leaders)...
So, considering the long term benefit, i would pay the cost which may seem to be high now but would ultimately bring the nation to its senses....
Re: Benazir is Back! Invitation to Foreign Forces
I would say, let the people of Pakistan suffer from their choices and let them develop the leadership from within,** lets not depend on others to find right leader and govt**... no nation learns to walk unless they try to walk, from last 60 years, it is them who are ensuring govts in our country, and the mess we are in is because of those govt and blunders ( we call it blunders but actually were result of treaties signed by the so-called leaders)...
So, considering the long term benefit, i would pay the cost which may seem to be high now but would ultimately bring the nation to its senses....
Asking others to keep an eye on 'neutrality' of elections is NOT depending on others to find right leader/govt, rather seeking others' help to improve process of elections, simple. Though ideally we should seek to improve within.
Re: Benazir is Back! Invitation to Foreign Forces
Asking others to keep an eye on 'neutrality' of elections is NOT depending on others to find right leader/govt, rather seeking others' help to improve process of elections, simple. Though ideally we should seek to improve within.
asking for monitoring is something else, asking for ENSURING is something totally different, please refer to post # 8
Re: Benazir is Back! Invitation to Foreign Forces
Dumbass wanker. He is a bonafide idiot.
What is a wanker ?
Is this an appropriate word to use in these forums ?
Re: Benazir is Back! Invitation to Foreign Forces
hanibal - question. What is wrong if EU monitors and Pakistan does get a fair election? Wouldn't that get the democracy that you support and also show to the world that Pakistan is not just military politics? There is no cost to the people!
monitoring and ensuring are not two different things in this context. you ensure by monitoring and letting all parties know they are being monitored.
Re: Benazir is Back! Invitation to Foreign Forces
asking for monitoring is something else, asking for ENSURING is something totally different, please refer to post # 8
ensuring does not mean they send NATO force to safeguard ballot centers, please explain what you mean by "foreign forces" first.
Re: Benazir is Back! Invitation to Foreign Forces
Imran Khan is much better in every way then the likes of Nawaz and Zardari. Whether he would make a excellent leader who knows...If he keeps true to his word then I would vote for him (If I could ofcourse)
Re: Benazir is Back! Invitation to Foreign Forces
I would say,** let the people of Pakistan suffer from their choices** and let them develop the leadership from within, lets not depend on others to find right leader and govt... no nation learns to walk unless they try to walk, from last 60 years, it is them who are ensuring govts in our country, and the mess we are in is because of those govt and blunders ( we call it blunders but actually were result of treaties signed by the so-called leaders)...
So, considering the long term benefit, i would pay the cost which may seem to be high now but would ultimately bring the nation to its senses....
I beg to differ, (I hope I am not the only one) but such attitude only leads towards a society and political leaders that engage in, support and defend a system that leads towards violance, bhatta khori, stealing from poor, kidnapping, extorsion and killing of people to keep holding on to power.
Is this the system that you want for Pakistan to adopt?
Re: Benazir is Back! Invitation to Foreign Forces
ensuring does not mean they send NATO force to safeguard ballot centers, please explain what you mean by "foreign forces" first.
But 2008 elections were monitored by US / EU as well, so EU wasn't ensuring that they were fair and how would we know that this time they will ensure it that they observe it fair and transparent without any biases? I mean our media observes elections, but has that made it fair according to Imran khan?
I think the main problem with many of our pakis here is what NIxon / Kissinger summed up Pakistanis as "loud but stupid". Would this benefit of the doubt be extended to altaf hussain or talal bugti if they asked for EU observers or will there be a who can rip off their heads contest going on right now in this very forum?
Re: Benazir is Back! Invitation to Foreign Forces
hanibal - question. What is wrong if EU monitors and Pakistan does get a fair election? Wouldn't that get the democracy that you support and also show to the world that Pakistan is not just military politics? There is no cost to the people!
monitoring and ensuring are not two different things in this context. you ensure by monitoring and letting all parties know they are being monitored.
Two Suggestions for you,
1) This is out internal matter, we may disagree with each other, we may have different thought process but end of the day everyone here wants things to get in order in Pakistan ( remember in Pakistan), and we don't need any foreigner to interfere in it...
2) Please refer to suggestion number 1
Re: Benazir is Back! Invitation to Foreign Forces
ensuring does not mean they send NATO force to safeguard ballot centers, please explain what you mean by "foreign forces" first.
Foreign Forces, broad term, can be used to exert pressure like they did in 2008 when NRO was imposed on the nation, or whenever the military dictator took over with their approval and can be used as some fighting force as they spoke about them when Karachi was burning... i hope this will do, now can we get on the topic at hand?
2ndly, if you have red post # 8, you'll find the definition of monitoring there and by monitoring one cannot ensure that elections are free and fair...
Now i don't know if you have looked at the statement of IK, i have made it bold, please read that again and then read the definition again, no point for me to repeating that stuff here..
Re: Benazir is Back! Invitation to Foreign Forces
I beg to differ, (I hope I am not the only one) but such attitude only leads towards a society and political leaders that engage in, support and defend a system that leads towards violance, bhatta khori, stealing from poor, kidnapping, extorsion and killing of people to keep holding on to power.
Is this the system that you want for Pakistan to adopt?
Democracy is a process, now there is no way to break the IDOL worship kind of attitude our nation have developed, in the country where issues have secondary importance and personalities have all the say in there hand, the suffering of people is a must... Doesn't matter if we like it or not... absolute power corrupt and we as a nation give absolute power in the hand of a person we worship... and this attitude make them do the blunders they do...
The elections in 90s are example to this, people voted for PPP and PML and then they suffered from their hands till the level where the loyal voter of PPP opted to not to vote to the candidate of his party... and NS was on the same road, yes it took the toll but the gap for a new leadership to emerge was there... and it was filled by the fake leader we know as MUSHY..
And after a decade when PPP is back in power some says with the sympathy vote and some says because of deal that US and UK broke... but eventually it was the people of Pakistan who voted them in... and after there performance where they have not been able to provide anything, chances are that they may loose the elections, even with the IDOL-WORSHIPING attitude, the allies of PPP are leaving them, Molana Diesel is prime example...
so yes the country is suffering but the suffering is not because somebody from MARS is our leader, it is because we as a masses have selected NS, Altaf, Zardari etc as our leader, these people lack vision and they do lack the capability to deliver but with all these faults they have great deal of support and one cannot eliminate that support overnight.
No one want a brutal system for Pakistan but unfortunately that is the system we are living in and it is only we who can force the leaders to change the system and if the don't do it change the leaders....
In Pakistan, change is happening, MQM the pioneer of Bhata-khori is on back-foot, JI who introduced violence in politics is almost side-lined, PML-N is forced to adopt plans keeping people's interest in mind and if they don't do it once in power then that the nation would be glad to see their back.
I believe there is process and certain environment where new leadership is developed, let the process take place, let us not mess with the process as we did earlier in form of military dictator ship ( ofcourse endorsed by foreign forces), lets not go for temporary solutions, lets look for long-term solutions and a Brufin might heal the pain but it certainly will complicate the reasons behind the pain, so lets not get fooled again, lets the process of elimination and emergence take its own course...
Re: Benazir is Back! Invitation to Foreign Forces
I am tottaly agreed with Hanibal
He just looking for a way to escape after AGAIN get one or TWO seats. O DEKHO NA GHAPLA BAZI KI GAI:D:
Re: Benazir is Back! Invitation to Foreign Forces
Foreign Forces, broad term, can be used to exert pressure like they did in 2008 when NRO was imposed on the nation, or whenever the military dictator took over with their approval and can be used as some fighting force as they spoke about them when Karachi was burning... i hope this will do, now can we get on the topic at hand?
you are confusing foreign pressure with foreign forces.
2ndly, if you have red post # 8, you'll find the definition of monitoring there and by monitoring one cannot ensure that elections are free and fair...
Now i don't know if you have looked at the statement of IK, i have made it bold, please read that again and then read the definition again, no point for me to repeating that stuff here..
Here I already said Pakistan should strive to establish a clean process itself, its okay to get training from abroad on how to ensure clean/rigging-free elections. But I disagree with your notion that Imran Khan wants foreign countries to hold the actual elections in Pakistan.
Re: Benazir is Back! Invitation to Foreign Forces
Again, no one answers how would EU “ensure” that the elections are free & fair, as if it just means that EU will be an “observer” then 2008 elections were fair as well. IK certainly doesn’t agree with that.
I guess this situation puts PTI supporters in a bind now! 
Re: Benazir is Back! Invitation to Foreign Forces
PTIans are trying to play around now and there leader is putting them into situation after situation, have you seen yesterdays Capital Talk, where when Hamid Mir asked IK that if he wants to topple the govt, to which he got lost again…
Re: Benazir is Back! Invitation to Foreign Forces
PTIans are trying to play around now and there leader is putting them into situation after situation, have you seen yesterdays Capital Talk, where when Hamid Mir asked IK that** if he wants to topple the govt, to which he got lost again**...
In that domain Imran is really lost, sometimes you will find him staging 'hakoomat hataao dharna', I certainly don't agree with that notion but so does Nawaz Sharif, he is ready to launch a "laaaaang march" every now and then but then ends up in his own "lawn march".
Re: Benazir is Back! Invitation to Foreign Forces
PTIans are trying to play around now and there leader is putting them into situation after situation, have you seen yesterdays Capital Talk, where when Hamid Mir asked IK that if he wants to topple the govt, to which he got lost again...
Yesterday he didn't said a word against anyone but Zardari. He was looking for O and MQM.
Perhaps Zardari is very wise , He only wanted to divide votes of central Punjab.