Re: Ben Carson: We should never elect a Muslim president
Well, not completely, but he has joked about it that ohh, I can't make fun as then I am bombarded on Twitter that I'm a bigot.
Re: Ben Carson: We should never elect a Muslim president
To me, he is mocking those who condemn his bigotry. Which is actually being more outrageous
Re: Ben Carson: We should never elect a Muslim president
The irony is that America is most pro free speech country in the world probably moreso than Great Britain.
Btw, we have two now. One is the famous Keith Ellison from MN? and another one is from Indiana. At local level, there are actually Republican Pakistanis in Virginia in the state Assembly. But yes, indians are definitely more organized than Pakistanis or Muslims.
Speaking of Britain, didn't Richard Dawkins get in **** for his remarks on the clock case? :D Even Maher has gone back in his cocoon after liberal backlash viz his Islam comments.
Really? Can American politicians stand up and criticise Israeli atrocities the way British parliament has passed the historic landmark bill recognising the state of Palestine? They certainly don't have that kind of 'freedom of speech' when it comes to Israel. The new Labour leader as pro Palestine/anti Israeli as any Western leader can get, guess what he just got elected as Party leader, and 30,000 more people have joined Labour party within 24 hours of him getting elected. Can any American leader think of getting such success after taking a stand against Israel? Of course, these things don't really achieve much in practical sense, but you cannot undermine their symbolic importance.
It is due to British freedom of speech that Scottish independence campaign was allowed to flourish and turn into a frenzy. Besides, we don't have any such thing as 'bible belt' in the country. Republicans, atheists, anti war activists are free to say whatever. British Pakistani Muslims don't need to pass themselves as Indians or wear 'born and bred' tag on their sleeves to get anyone's approval or just needlessly self hate. They are a very confident, expressive and organised bunch.
Re: Ben Carson: We should never elect a Muslim president
Agree wit above post. Re last sentence, I thought Pakistanis in the US are far more well educated as a group than their British counterparts.
Re: Ben Carson: We should never elect a Muslim president
Really? Can American politicians stand up and criticise Israeli atrocities the way British parliament has passed the historic landmark bill recognising the state of Palestine? They certainly don't have that kind of 'freedom of speech' when it comes to Israel. The new Labour leader as pro Palestine/anti Israeli as any Western leader can get, guess what he just got elected as Party leader, and 30,000 more people have joined Labour party within 24 hours of him getting elected. Can any American leader think of getting such success after taking a stand against Israel? Of course, these things don't really achieve much in practical sense, but you cannot undermine their symbolic importance.
It is due to British freedom of speech that Scottish independence campaign was allowed to flourish and turn into a frenzy. Besides, we don't have any such thing as 'bible belt' in the country. Republicans, atheists, anti war activists are free to say whatever. British Pakistani Muslims don't need to pass themselves as Indians or wear 'born and bred' tag on their sleeves to get anyone's approval or just needlessly self hate. They are a very confident, expressive and organised bunch.
Though I agree about the consequences or shout down after an anti-israeli comment, but what does all the criticism by UK of israel does in substance? Has UK cut relationship with Israel or stop selling them weapons? I can bet you that some UK aid is probably funneling to poor jews in the holy land as we speak.
Re: Ben Carson: We should never elect a Muslim president
Though I agree about the consequences or shout down after an anti-israeli comment, but what does all the criticism by UK of israel does in substance? Has UK cut relationship with Israel or stop selling them weapons? I can bet you that some UK aid is probably funneling to poor jews in the holy land as we speak.
That's why I said that in practical sense, it achieves nothing. But if you really want to compare which country has more freedom of speech, then there is no comparison between Britain and US because Britain clearly has more. Their politicians hands and lips are not tied by any Jewish lobby. In regards to doing about Israel, the whole of Europe just hides about America and UN's support for Israel, and use it as an excuse to do nothing significant.
Re: Ben Carson: We should never elect a Muslim president
You do have the home department that can ban people. Zakir Naik was banned because he praised Yazeed, though he was finally allowed in UK after his team used the 'freedom of speech' argument.
Re: Ben Carson: We should never elect a Muslim president
Britain is the creator of modern state of Israel, so there's only so much of anti Israel U-turn they can take.
British Jews, though a very powerful and influential group do not wear their love and fanatical campaign for Israel on their sleeves which seems like a political norm in America.
I think Dr Zakir was also banned because of his dodgy views on suicide bombing or Jihad or something else. He said something quite stupidly vague on that issue. I don't think they banned him because they thought he was a sectarian wahabi nutjob.
Or maybe they did.....
Re: Ben Carson: We should never elect a Muslim president
From personal interactions with American jews, I have not seen extremism from them. Most are really nice. At least from my experience.
Re: Ben Carson: We should never elect a Muslim president
Christian republicans more than american jews have a hard on for israel.
Re: Ben Carson: We should never elect a Muslim president
Christian republicans more than american jews have a hard on for israel.
Am sure you mean evangelicals. And that is the doing of the jewish lobby. Back in the 80s, they realized there is only so much they can influence policy in US without colluding with christian groups. So they started the whole 'judeo-christian' values, jewish outreach etc. They found a partner in evangelicals, who believed creation of Israel was the beginning of end times, and the lobby convinced them that defending Israel was their religious duty. That is why you see more fervor for Israel on the christian right than the jews themselves.
Re: Ben Carson: We should never elect a Muslim president
Ben has a point. US constitution calls for equal rights for all, free speech, separation of religion and state, etc. All of these are against Sharia Law. Any one claiming to adhere to Sharia Law cannot uphold the US constitution.
Re: Ben Carson: We should never elect a Muslim president
Ben has a point. US constitution calls for equal rights for all, free speech, separation of religion and state, etc. All of these are against Sharia Law. Any one claiming to adhere to Sharia Law cannot uphold the US constitution.
In that case, it should automatically disqualify him; he just proposed discriminating based on religion.
Re: Ben Carson: We should never elect a Muslim president
Ben has a point. US constitution calls for equal rights for all, free speech, separation of religion and state, etc. All of these are against Sharia Law. Any one claiming to adhere to Sharia Law cannot uphold the US constitution.
Ben does not have a point... Ben is blurting out whatever nonsense he can come up with to appeal to the hate filled right wing crowd (as a Christian, and I have dealt with people of his denomination, he likely believes the ignorant bs he spouts).
Anyone who espouses Sharia law for the US, wouldnt be going through the electoral process to begin with. For anyone to run for any office in the US, they would need to adhere to the constitution... Sharia law or Constitution... Its a moot point, completely irrelevant. A better answer to the question would have been, I support any candidate who adheres to the constitution regardless of their religious background. But he cant say that because the hate mongers that vote for him would be turned off by a rational response.
Carson is also a complete hypocrite.
He has no problem injecting his own religious bias into every issue, but Muslims are apparently the ones he's concerned about. The case of the woman who refused to issue gay marriage licenses is a case in point. The supreme court has established that denying Gays marriage rights is UNCONSTITUTIONAL... Yet Carson is supporting someone who is denying them that right! So its Carson himself who is allowing religion to supersede the Constitution, not some hypothetical Muslim candidate...
Re: Ben Carson: We should never elect a Muslim president
" “If there is somebody who is of any faith but they say things and their life has been consistent with things that will elevate this nation and make it possible for everybody to succeed and bring peace and harmony, then I’m with them,” he said."
This automatically disqualifies the good doctor.
Doctor's... I tell ya what, they know everything about their field and nothing else. People are surprised to hear that he is against evolution for example. Im not. Doctor's are no doubt smart, they arent always very wise ... Another words, they are motivated by the same biases as anyone else. Carson is ignorant not because he's dumb, but because he refuses to entertain any idea that contradicts his preconceived notions. To do so would require a degree of wisdom that he does not have.
Re: Ben Carson: We should never elect a Muslim president
Doctor's... I tell ya what, they know everything about their field and nothing else. People are surprised to hear that he is against evolution for example. Im not. Doctor's are no doubt smart, they arent always very wise ... Another words, they are motivated by the same biases as anyone else. Carson is ignorant not because he's dumb, but because he refuses to entertain any idea that contradicts his preconceived notions. To do so would require a degree of wisdom that he does not have.
Well said.
Some people can be very smart. But they lack wisdom and humility.
I was at a liberal site discussing some ways to reduce pollution. There was this very smart guy - who ripped my post apart. (I had omitted coal plants shutdowns - a low hanging fruit).
He kept calling me a 12 year old. And started lecturing me on reading up on the topic and sharpen my presentation skills to be taken seriously. He said he simpky didn't have the time to read my "scattered" points.
I told him exactly what you stated. That he may be smart. But he lacked wisdom and humility. And the willingness to listen to other ideas, however "scattered" they are presented as. I also told him it does not cost anything to be nice.
Tour post really hit home. Since the exchange happened yesterday.
Re: Ben Carson: We should never elect a Muslim president
Well said.
Some people can be very smart. But they lack wisdom and humility.
I was at a liberal site discussing some ways to reduce pollution. There was this very smart guy - who ripped my post apart. (I had omitted coal plants shutdowns - a low hanging fruit).
He kept calling me a 12 year old. And started lecturing me on reading up on the topic and sharpen my presentation skills to be taken seriously. He said he simpky didn't have the time to read my "scattered" points.
I told him exactly what you stated. That he may be smart. But he lacked wisdom and humility. And the willingness to listen to other ideas, however "scattered" they are presented as. I also told him it does not cost anything to be nice.
Tour post really hit home. Since the exchange happened yesterday.
Yeah... Intelligence is the ability to acquire knowledge, Wisdom is the WILLINGNESS to learn... I think its EQ as opposed to IQ.
And the guy should challenge you on the points, not on how its presented. Its a old dirty trick.. I've seen people do it so many times.
Re: Ben Carson: We should never elect a Muslim president
Ben does not have a point... Ben is blurting out whatever nonsense he can come up with to appeal to the hate filled right wing crowd (as a Christian, and I have dealt with people of his denomination, he likely believes the ignorant bs he spouts).
Anyone who espouses Sharia law for the US, wouldnt be going through the electoral process to begin with. For anyone to run for any office in the US, they would need to adhere to the constitution... Sharia law or Constitution... Its a moot point, completely irrelevant. A better answer to the question would have been, I support any candidate who adheres to the constitution regardless of their religious background. But he cant say that because the hate mongers that vote for him would be turned off by a rational response.
Carson is also a complete hypocrite.
He has no problem injecting his own religious bias into every issue, but Muslims are apparently the ones he's concerned about. The case of the woman who refused to issue gay marriage licenses is a case in point. The supreme court has established that denying Gays marriage rights is UNCONSTITUTIONAL... Yet Carson is supporting someone who is denying them that right! So its Carson himself who is allowing religion to supersede the Constitution, not some hypothetical Muslim candidate...
I agree he is hypocritical. He himself has stated he considers Bible over constitution. His point remains valid though and applicable to all religious people. Not just muslims.
Re: Ben Carson: We should never elect a Muslim president
I agree he is hypocritical. He himself has stated he considers Bible over constitution. His point remains valid though and applicable to all religious people. Not just muslims.
Its not a point...To call it a "point" is to give him far to much credit. It might have been a point had he said something that was thought provoking, or something nuanced. He just blurted out some nonsense. Yes there is an underlying truth there, that no religion should supersede the Constitution, but that goes without saying because its just obvious... Regardless, he wasnt getting at that... He's just having a dig at Muslims to appeal to his right wing base. He doesn't care about the separation of religion and state, he crosses that boundary all the time.. He isnt trying to make a point, he trying to fill air time.
Re: Ben Carson: We should never elect a Muslim president
Btw did you guyz read the money is pouring on him since his anti-muslim comments. It says a lot. I'm not sure about his current rating though but my guess it would have taken a hit