Being used and destroyed

Arts & Culture Culture, Arts, Literature & Linguistics
21

Saallamm … We had this topic before a year ago… anyway … sorry the post is long read all then comment if you have NOT read all DO NOT comment on it. Thank you!

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Supersonic your story is absolutely sadly Correct and very sadly true. Those things do happen and they happen because of bad influence weather its from movies, bad friends, or the "women’s “rights” dilemma.

First of all, people who disagree with that… What kind of rights doesn’t islam give you? That you have to run away from your home and do something bad. Islam says a women can get education, islam says a women can work, islam says she do what ever man does, she can have friends, social life, fun(not sex or being with men she doesn’t know). I think women who still ask for rights are looking for rights that women of west have… those are, very known to us, like sex before marriage, sex with men she doesn’t know, VERY OPEN with men she doesn’t know… are those right that you women want.. which islam says you cant have???
**Islam to kehta hia ke aurat hia nageena
Pardoon main chuhhpana eesay kho jaye kaheen na

Aurat to haya hia, arey aurat to wafa hia
Aurat ki hafazat to sunoo qurb-e khuda hia** … more but cant write here lol maybe someother post inshallah!

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Imran sahib you are disagreeing with that because guys like you use girls like those who run away from their homes, guys like you use girls who are bad, and are influenced by bad company of “wanna be” friends, or movies. I think you disagree with what is being said because it does not fit in your daily agenda, it doesn’t suite your personality, you want people to realize that its women " asking for rights" and not behaving bad according to islam. Tell me something Is disobeying parents a persons RIGHT to do? Is that your right to disobey your parents???

sheeww than they say women in west are honorable… not bad … puhleeeeez!

Those things are happening all the time in every part of world… in pakistan( lahore, islamabad, karachi). In New york city, I HAVE SEEN girls with my own eyes, they get out of their homes wearing hijab and scarfs but when they get to schools, they go straight to lockers and change, with TIGHT pants(so you can see their ugly flat ass), no scarfs or hijabs, highly pathetic make-up, and than they go and become a lip service to guys, and than guys become their “chammchaas” i wonder what kind of cheap minded person would even look at those girls. Than when its time to go back home, they change again looking like a nice muslim lady … and parents think their kids are so nice and islamic…

Rani said, west teaches us to be responsible at very young age, i think she is right, but being responsible doesn’t mean you have to become responsibility of some one else. Parents in west are busy making money and they DO NOT care about their kids, so they tell them to " adjust in the society" i remember this incident my friend tells me that these girls, their father openly asked them to " beta apney app ko society mian adjust kar lo" what does that mean? That what ever society does you CAN do that to… so they did got adjusted to this western society, i with MY own eyes have seen one of his girls kissing black guys, in lobby of her high school. I with my own eyes have seen guys tapping her on the back(on her butt). Is that they freedom and rights you gals want? Even all the rights and freedom that ISLAM gave you, you still want what rights???

People often confuse islam with society, when culture or society doesn’t give them something they blame it on Islam and when islam tells them to do something and they ask for RIGHTs so they don’t have to do what islam says.
There is hadith, in which Mohammed says that as the time goes by, the condition and concept of “shaarrmo hayaa” will become less and less of an concern to people. The conditions of ones faith and personality will get less of an importance to a person.

Mr.>F well said, agree with you there.

Last thing, Imran hope you didn’t mind anything i said about you, but its MOSTLY true…(you don’t have to say its true or agree with it)…and one last question, are you really a pakistani or indian/hindu?

What kind of rights do you women want … that you do not in islam??? I guess this poem says it all … about “women’s and their rights” in west…
** Azaadi-e nosoowaan ka tarana yahan aurat
Hum Jinnss parastii ka nishaana yahan aurat**

If you have control of your kids, THAN you can guide them, when you don’t have any control over them and they don’t even listen to you, how do you expect them to listen to your guidance??? Even professors and americans admit that their kids are out of control that most american parents do not have control of their kids, that’s why you see shootings and violence in elementary and high schools.

Until we all embrace islam, starting from our own selves, we than will realize that islam does have clean system that makes a society flourish and live in peace that is without filth and begeyyratii …

OoPss this is getting longer and longer … i better save my thoughts for next time hahahahehehe

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Laterzz people

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Ok Thank you have a nice gupshup. Sorry the post was bit long.

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HARooN

HARooN>>>Chorr chori se jaye…haira-pehrii se na jaye<<< :slight_smile:

[This message has been edited by HARooN (edited July 17, 2000).]

22

Just talk about “women’s right” and all mullas will start screaming,
“They want to have free sex”. Is it what rights means to you?

Cant these mullahs think of any thing else than sex? So pathetic but still
so expected from this kind thinking.

Let me explain what “women’s right” is:

Discrimination against women, denying or limiting as it
does their equality of rights with men, is fundamentally
unjust and constitutes an offence against human dignity.

1.All appropriate measures, particularly legislative
measures, shall be taken to ensure to women, married or
unmarried, equal rights with men in the field of civil law,
and in particular:

The right to hold public office and to exercise all public functions

The right to acquire, administer, enjoy, dispose of and
inherit property, including property acquired during marriage;

The right to equality in legal capacity and the exercise thereof;

*The same rights as men with regard to the law on the movement of persons. *

  1. All appropriate measures shall be taken to ensure the principle of *equality of status of the husband and wife, * and in particular:

*Women shall have the same right as men to free choice of a
spouse and to enter into marriage only with their free and full consent; *

*Women shall have equal rights with men during marriage and at
its dissolution. * In all cases the interest of the children shall be paramount;

  1. Child marriage and the betrothal of young girls before puberty shall be prohibited, and effective action, including legislation, shall be taken to specify a minimum age for marriage and to make the registration of marriages in an official registry compulsory.
23

[quote]
Originally posted by HARooN:
**
Imran sahib you are disagreeing with that because guys like you use girls like those who run away from their homes, guys like you use girls who are bad, and are influenced by bad company of "wanna be" friends, or movies.**
[/quote]

How pathetic!! Mr. Haroon Don’t you have any better argument?

[quote]
Originally posted by HARooN:
**
.....and one last question, are you really a pakistani or indian/hindu? .**
[/quote]

At least I am using my real name and real E-mail address!
What about you dear?

24

FRaudi and imran are kind of right but i have to point something out.

To force a girl to get married and trick her is against ISLAM.
But when paki parents force their daughter to get married without her consent they think it is allowed in islam.

But what these parents are following is the traditional paki culture, not islam.

This is purely down to the fact of tradition, culture and ilitrecy.

25

I would like to ask you ppl a simple question.
Would you like your sister/daughter to go out with a boy?
What is this "so called" love?
do you think 18yr is a mature age to run away with their "love ones"?

I remember looking at every young/beautiful girl at that age and thinking that I could marry her? Would you call it love?
I'm not the only one. Everyone (those who say they don't are liars) does that. and i think its a part of your growth and maturity.

People (specially girl nicks) are taking this matter a wrong way. Thinking that Men always try to Rule them. Even though that is not the case.

When you say parents do you include mothers as well??
She is a woman, why doesn't she allow you to run away?

At one stage girls say that men don't treat them good. next day they run away with a guy!
If a guy can ask you to run away with him don't those stupid girls see that he can ask someone to run away with him?
Are they "dumb" enough to believe them?
Prove me wrong, I would like to be proven wrong. Girls are intelligent.

Both men and women are humans they are same and at a same level. The girl that runs away with a boy is wrong because that boy is wrong too.

When we say children we mean both boys and girls. This is a social problem and against islam too. We should together work out a solution to prevent next generations from this type of incidents.

Do you...yahooooooo!!! ?

26

Yahoo dear,

I am not in any way defending “run away” or preaching for it.
When a boy or girl run away, things are already gone too long.

Suppose I have a sister and she knows I will never force her to
do anything against her will. Do you think she is going to run away
with the first-best-guy?

When somebody runs away, sooner or later, all the people involved
gets hurt.

27

Hmmm, I will talk to both, and I will tell them both what I think i.e. if I think they are making a wrong choice, I will tell them that. I am not going to put my stamp of approval just to please my sibling, I would give them the honest, accurate evaluation from my perspective whether it is pleasing to them or not…

On the other hand if my sibling comes to me and says he/she likes someone that I dont think it right for them, I will tell him/her and note my reasons why I feel that way, but will tell them that teh final decision is their’s and I will support them.

However, if they are going for someone and I have reservations, nto because of my personal feelings or thoughts, but because of a greater issue i.e. person is criminal, immoral, deceiver.. My approach may be more strict.

to make it simple..

if my brother comes to me and says he likes this girl from japan who is a few years older etc etc…I will tell him of potential issues he will face and as long as he is aware of them and has thought about them..its his decision.

but, id he shows up and tells me he likes some drugged up hooker… I will tell him to get real…and I will beat his ass if he doesnt..

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28

...The males and females should have the same rights...but, considering cultural-handicaps, it's almost impossible for the female's parents to go to male's parents and say, Our daughter wants to marry your son...
Arranged marriages are O.K, as long as the male and female both agree...
Now, the female should see, and know the person she is marrying...according to our religion, we should ask the girl...
BUT, as we are "Laqir ke Faqir" the LAST minute, while the "Dulha" waiting outside with half the city, the girl is asked"DO YOU" question...that's cruel...
The girl should be able to voice her opinion way before the marriage date...It's the GIRL who spends the REST of her life with the Man, not the parents...
"Ignorance is a bliss"

29

Imran sahib… jo cheez such ho aur achiii na lagey wo pathetic hee hoti hia…lol anyway…

Islam offers women EQUALITY with MEN, as said in my post, if society or culture doesnt give a women her rights, than its not religions fault, but some people just do NOT know the facts nor do the know the religion and they just go ahead and put the patch on religion. NOW thats pathetic and sadly stupid.
You need to study islam and than comment on it, you need to study the culture that a women lives in than comment on it, dont just bombard something on basis of what you hear on TV or what you are thought in your home.

(Note from Admin: Please refrain from launching personal attacks on members.)

Most of the time a person goes astray is because of bad company of friends, a bad influence from media(movies, TV, cable).
I dont think you read my whole post you just read what i said about you soo..that is not good, didnt you read what i said in the begining of the post, READ ALL THEN COMMENT ON IT…i guess you missed the “read” part.

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laterzz

PS: Just to let you know dear my real name is HARooN…and email is also read you can email and see, you wont get a reply though

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anyways no need to get touchy about it aight? its just a topic, what i say wont change nothing here, and what you say doesnt really matter. And Pleaseeeeeeeee dont bring mulahs in here…they way you talking, you seem either a indian muslim or indian/hindu..what ever i am not assuming just saying..maybe im wrong and than again maybe im not.

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we cool aight.

HARooN

HARooN>>>Chorr chori se jaye…haira-pehrii se na jaye<<< :slight_smile:

[This message has been edited by HARooN (edited July 18, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Admin (edited July 18, 2000).]

30

For being Haroon, you sure sound a lot like Jaawan. Or is Jawaan’s name Haroon, too? The phrases you were also previously used by Jaawan: for example, “their ugly flat asses,” and “sorry the post is long read all then comment if you have NOT read all DO NOT comment on it.” Maybe you are Jaawan’s brother?

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Also, the way you question the morality of people who disagree with you (i.e. “Imran sahib you are disagreeing with that because guys like you use girls like those who run away from their homes, guys like you use girls who are bad” ) is also just like Jaawan.

Hmmm. Your nicks are mixing, be more careful!!! The Zar Leo and the vegetable seller will be next!

Zara

31

Zara hehhahaha lol yaar you know jaawan well haan? WOW He is on vocation, forcefully lol! Anyways dear, well instead of KNOWing and understandin the main concept and point behind the post you go ahead and take out the bad words and silly language??? You should make coments if you have to, on the basic and main point of the post… (as i said before, tum sub parey likhey jahil ho, kuch paata nahi keya karna hia aur mu utha ke bass shor macha detey ho) another thing about this zar leo and jaawan thing, i am totally pisssed, now read and real well missy, Subzi wala and Zar leo 2 different persons i dont even know this leo dude, who ever he is, he is NOT subzi wala. zar leo, subzi wala, and me were on voice chat at the same time the other day, and people there didnt said anthing about us being the SAME person??? How can one person talk in 3 different voices, on the same computer? Dont you think thats little stupid to think? Anyways dear do not make assumptions about something you do not know the facts about. I hope you keep that in mind!

Always read everyones post from A to Z and than comment, (if you dont have to make comments on something, than dont, and do not look for silly things to light the fire.)you never know where and when you missed the main point. Its ok, it happens. Hope didnt offend you in any way

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.
Thank you have a nice misunderstood gupshup. Laterzzz

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btw: jaawan never said thank you at end of his posts or that nice gupshup greetings…hahah

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will try to post his stuff with his nick…when he is back from the banned land.

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Muzna(big maama at gupshut) jee are being very unfair here…anyways, thats all she can do i guess.

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No problemo!

HARooN

HARooN>>>Chorr chori se jaye…haira-pehrii se na jaye<<< :slight_smile:

32

Salam,
I have been reading the comments by everybody here. I think Mr. Imran makes a lot of sense as compared to Mr. Haroon who is being personal, immature and predictable with this behavior.

Anyway, I definitely agree with Mr. F. and Imran when it comes to women's rights. Pakistani families need to trust their daughters more. Infact they should be given as much priority as the male offsprings of the family get. Its very sad to see the boys going to the elitest colleges whereas the girls are forced to sit home when they cross the age of 18.
The boys usually end up being spoilt after getting so much attention by their folks whereas the girls lose most of their confidence.

I made these observation considering my own family, friends and relatives.

Do you friends think that perhaps girls do NOT get as many opportunities as the male counterparts in the family do?

Bibi Saddar ka bees rupiya ziada hoga...

33

Something about the topic itself: First of all, I dont think the girls in United States are so liberal and unislamic as they are portrayed by the media. The families I know in USA are strictly( sometimes overly) islamic.

Bibi Saddar ka bees rupiya ziada hoga...

34

That would be a very good response to such a predicament. I will keep this in mind if i come across such situation in future.

35

Akhhmmmm....you didnt read any of my post did you? !!!

What are womens rights can you tell us that?

What rights doesnt Islam give a women, that a western society does???

What rights doesnt sub-continentian society give a women, that islam does???

Are you talking about the rights that a society (should)gives to a desi women, or the rights that islam (doesnt)gives to a desi muslim women???

Are you saying that we do NOT have to look at islam, while considering the rights of women, and still call our selves muslim.

Most of the desi women in west do MOST of the stuff that western society offers, whats left? Oh i know, the whole sex..and well they will catch up to that too...with the help of "blind womens rights fighters" like yourself.

Lastly to you i maybe being immature, because you wana fit in the crowd, like GIVE the idea and opinions that most of the people hold here...and NOT reveal the true thoughts on the subject...that my friend is cowardness and only suites to people like you. Thank you have a nice gupshup.

HARooN

HARooN>>>Chorr chori se jaye...haira-pehrii se na jaye<<< :)

[This message has been edited by HARooN (edited July 19, 2000).]

36

Salam again, again Mr. Haroon I just think that you are a tad bit more aggressive and opinionated which is a good thing to some extent. But again calling me a "coward" and insinuating insults at me wont get much out of me. If you want to hold a decent discussion, you might wanna refrain from insulting rebukes first.
"..that my friend is cowardness and only suites to people like you.."

Arent you being a little hasty judging about me?

37

All truth goes through three stages:

First, it is ridiculed.
Then, it is violently opposed.
Finally, it is accepted as ** self-evident.**

38

This is going to take me ages to read.

I can only say one thing, Haroon stop talking crp,
Fraudi is kikn ur ass.

39

side note to Zaraatif:- *um, okay, Zaraatif, this is where you & I start beginning to yipping & yelling the cheerleading cheers discussed in Ullu’s earlier posts. makes sense in this situation,huh? *

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[This message has been edited by kohal (edited July 19, 2000).]

40

hahaha…well excuse me for calling you a coward, but when did i said that YOU ARE A COWARD? when did i said it? Did you assumed from my writing that i did? Even if did…that is because you made some remarks about me…“Haroon who is being personal, immature and predictable with this behavior…” you dont push me, than i wont rattle your coop. We cool!

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Anyways why dont you answer the questions i asked. Lets see how knowlegdable you are about islam and society which doesnt give womens their rights.

Supersonic…something bothering you?

NOTE: lets say your daughter or sister comes to you and tells you that she loves this guy and she wants to marry him. You being a respectfull and caring of your reputation in front of family and friends, you tell her this marriage is NOT acceptible. She being a stupid kid, runs away with her lover, and there goes your reputation and your izzaat in the drains. Now tell me, is ruining a fathers or brothers, and/or family’s reputation and RIGHT of women? I dont think so? Is that her right to ruin YOUR reputation? Read my first post in this thread and what desi girls do in the USA… call it crap, call it what ever you like, its the truth i have seen it with my own gunnaa-gar eyes. I dont know why you guys getting pissed, when i am revealing what you guys do to girls who have gone bad. OH well thats my story and im sticking to it. HOpe you answer the questions i asked in the previous post… and than we shall take it from there.

Fraudi is kick my ass? super sonic read his and my posts again… you will find similarties. anyways… a person should be able to kick..heheh you know what i mean.

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Thank you have a nice gupshup.

HARooN

HARooN>>>Chorr chori se jaye…haira-pehrii se na jaye<<< :slight_smile:

[This message has been edited by HARooN (edited July 19, 2000).]