This is a general topic of course, but guys in particular might be able to shed a bigger light on it…girls are welcome to give their input too. I just want to know how important do u think a beard is for a muslim male. Is it compulsory, very important, or a simple source of additional sawab? I have heard/read different explanations about it, ranging from a beard being something that makes Allah (SWT) happy, since Prophet Muhammad (SAW) had it, to one quote calling it a gunah-e-kabeera not to have a beard. Can u enlighten please?
I dont think Akif that a beard is that important but i do think it is Sunnath since PBUH also kept a beard....although i cant say i have a great deal of Islamic knowledge..
I just think that God will not punish you for not having a beard esp. if you happen to be a good muslim. Remember, Allah is very merciful..
One thing that really bugs me is why Pakistanis love moustaches so much (personally i think theyre ugly!!)... do ya know Akif???
The fact of the matter is, a moustache is discouraged in Islam. But in Pakistan, its more a symbol of 'mardaangi' than anything else. A person without a moustache in Pakistan is referred to as a sissy. But thats just the way it is down there. Back to the subject of beard, it is sunnat-e-tehreemi, and i must admit i dont exactly know what that means..but it seems like a sunnat which you follow in respect for Muhammad SAW.
Expanding the discussion a bit we should look at whether Islam encourages us to follow the prophets (pbuh) personal mode of behaviour in general. I don't think it is important at all. I quite like the commnets on this issue by K.Ahmed….
This is because a person's mode of behavior is determined by many different factors, such as customs, his education, personal upbringing and personal inclinations. The prophet's mode of eating, of dress and indeed of general behavior cannot be different from that of other Arabs, including Jews and Christians, of that time, except regarding matters which Islam prohibited. If the Prophet had been born a Malay, he would have dressed and eaten like a Malay. This is a cultural and a personal trait which has nothing to do with one's religion.
So were the methods of the Prophet's wars and his administration of the Medina city-state. The weapons he used, such as swords, spears, arrows and shields, were in accordance with the prevailing technology. Today, with the
development of modern weapons, the Muslims obviously cannot fight with the medieval weapons used by the Prophet, although they must emulate his staunch faith in God and complete adherence to God's teachings.
This is interesting topic!
There are Hadiths that say that women should cover themselves from head to foot. There are also Hadiths that say men should have beards long enough to grasp in their hand.
When Hadiths concerning women are questioned, many people get excited and start quoting and quoting, but when it comes to Hadiths concerning men, well. . .nobody is pushed about it. It is a matter of personal choice.
Zara
Salam
Well i too like the topic of Hadith...
Im not a very very strong believer in Hadith after reading this collection by Bukhari (cant rem. first name!). Usually when i read the Hadith i sort of loose faith because some of the stuff just doesnt sound right.
People say that if you dont follow the hadith then how do you pray... but I say that prayers are actions not words and actions are alot difficult to change and the words in a prayer are from the Quran so their is no way one can challenge that.
But sayings of the prophet can much easily be misinterpreted. Ive been told that a single Hadith is compiled from not one but many good muslims 200 years after PBUHs death. That may be true but it takes one person to change it and after 100 years that changed thing can come from many people sounding totally different.
I also have a problem with why we call some hadiths 'authentic' and others we reject. I think any human is prone to error and only the Quran is word of god.
I also like what Camille has to say about the influence culture may have played with regards to petty things.
But im a terrible muslim and i may be very very wrong. However I am a good listener so if anyone wants to change my opinion then im all ears....
Zara....i believe the mention of pardah is right there in the Quran. Beard isnt mentioned in the Quran. It was purely a sunnat of the prophet SAW...as for the size of the beard, ive read that Prophet SAW had a short beard and he trimmed it. and he didnt have a moustache. But you have to see the difference between pardah and beard. Pardah is for protection...beard is for respect.
Allstar - I agree with you and also relate to the kind of issues that are confusing you. Don't lose faith, the Quran is there for all of us, just read with an open heart and you will be guided, it is complete and fully detailed.
On a general note can anyone please confirm if we are to take 'all' the sahih hadith on par with the Quran? Or are there some in there which are not relaible as well?
allstar,
I agree with you also. I had the same experience when reading Hadith. Many of them are so strange and seem to contradict the Quran or the spirit of the Quran in many ways. Then I read the Quran carefully and noticed that God specifically tells us not to follow any books except the books brought by the prophets.
akif,
Please quote the parts of the Quran that mention pardah. In my opinion all that the Quran says is that women should cover their breasts and not show anything which does not appear naturally. All other references are to the wives of the Prophet, for whom their are restrictions because of their special position.
Zara
By the way, please don't misunderstand my post. I'm not promoting beards for men, I'm complaining about double standards toward men and women.
Zara
Zara....the standards are the same for both men and women..they are just different. You cant compare their standards, because we are talking about different sexes. As for what Quran says about hijab...
"O Prophet, tell your wives and daughters and the believing women to draw their outer garments around them (when they go out or are among men). That is better in order that they may be known (to be Muslims) and not
annoyed..." (Qur'an 33:59)
Its not just about the wives of the Prophet SAW...its about all believing women. and furthermore....
"And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; and that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear thereof; that they should
draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands..." (Qur'an 24:30-31)
Here, the word bosoms does not mean breasts in particular. Its a mention of the general chest area. If it was just about the breasts, then wearing a swimsuit would be ok for muslim women since that covers breasts too. And here, i believe its more about covering the bosom in order to conceal any outline that ur dress might show.
Ayesha (RA) reported that Asmaa the daughter of Abu Bakr (RA) came to Prophet (SAW) while wearing thin clothing. He approached her and said: 'O Asmaa! When a girl reaches the menstrual age, it is not proper that anything should remain exposed except this and this. He pointed to the face and hands."
But in addition to all this, there is one very important fact that i read written in the Holy Quran....
"Say to the believing man that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that will make for greater purity for them; and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do. And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; and that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear thereof."
In other words, the responsibility lies on both men and women. Men gawking at women passing by are just as guilty as a women who exposes herself. It goes both ways.
Akif,
I know all about that "equal but different," "separate but equal" stuff.
Although I asked only for quotes from the Quran, you quoted Hadith also, because it is impossible to support your point without Hadith. And the two parts which you quoted from the Quran were the same two parts that I referred to myself in my earlier post (covering breasts and not showing more than appears naturally).
Before the time of the Prophet women in Arabia did not always cover their breasts. That is why Allah specified that they wrap their clothes around their breasts. If he had wanted them to do more he would have specified that. The fact is that the traditional Muslim view of Hijab cannot be supported by the Quran, which is the only set of rules which Muslims are supposed to follow.
Zara
[This message has been edited by zaraatif (edited September 04, 1999).]
Zara...Sunnat is nothing but Quran in its practical form. Quran does say about dress being enough to show modesty, and I dont believe that is confined to just the breasts. Just because the Quran doesnt mention any other body part doesnt mean if should be left uncovered. Hadith is an important part of Islam, and it is meant to be followed. It surely doesnt mean that you can do away with just covering your breasts. This is an unwritten rule of modesty that exists in Islam. Men are supposed to cover their body from their navel down to their knees....But how many men do u find praying that way? Its about modesty.
"An unwritten rule." That is an interesting way of justifying things. I guess that could just about cover (get the pun?) anything that is not discussed in the Quran but that people want to enforce.
I agree the Quran asks us to be modest, but it does not ask women to cover their heads, etc. If Allah wanted that he would have specified it. These extra restrictions are man-made laws.
Zara
What Allah wants us to do is all there in the Quran, but He left the explanation and demonstration for all that up to the Prophet SAW. We can choose to follow or not to follow the explanations. The fact is, we select sunnats and hadiths according to our "taste" and convenience. Its very well known that hijab was ordered by the Prophet SAW, and yes, in that way, you can say it is a man made law, cause Prophet SAW was a man too. But our search for Sunnat that pleases us sometimes takes us to opposite ends. As for man made rules, where does Allah SWT tell us how to pray? Nowhere in the Quran is it mentioned as to how we are supposed to make ablution, how we should stand, what we should read in the salat, and how many rakats we should read for each namaz. Who do we follow there? The Prophet SAW of course. What is it that tells us in this case that all this 4 rakats for Fajr, 12 for Zuhr etc arent man made? After all, this too is man made, isnt it? You wont find any muslim deviating from this. But when it comes to other sunnats, like hijab, we come up with our own explanations, and then blame our predecessors for having tainted all the hadiths, which is why we cant follow them. I am not trying to judge anyone here, cause Allah knows how much of a sinner I myself am, but we should at least acknowledge the facts of Islam...and Islam includes Quran and sunnat. Its incomplete without either. We cant shun things by saying that they are 'man made', unless we have authentic proof of that.
Asalamu Alaikum,
It is stated in the Qur'an that we should dress so we are recognized as Muslims... and wearing hijab is definatly a sign of being a Muslim, you are recognized as being someone who believes in Islam right away.. the moment someone lays eyes on you. Tell me what else can signify better that you are a Muslimah?
As for men and their beards, it is not written in the Qur'an that a man should have a beard, but it is the practice of our beloved Prophet(SAW) and is highly recommended.
Whether it is fardh or not, is another issue.. but let me ask you another question.. and I ask myself it at the same time, because I know I have the same attitude at times.. but why is it that we do just the bare minimum when it comes to Islam? I mean sitting here and discussing whether hijab or beard is obligatory, even though we know that it is something that is pleasing to Allah (SWT), that should be enough for us.. its like we're looking to get the cheapest ticket into heaven..
If we look into the life of the Prophet (SAW) and the Sahabas.. did they just pray the five fardh salats, fast, and give zakat and do hajj? No.. they went above and beyond the bare minimum in order to please Allah (SWT). The question is.. what is it that we're lacking , that doesn't motivate us to want to do the MOST that we can for Allah (SWT), rather than adopting this doing as little as possible attitude?
I wish I knew what it was, so I could fix it in myself, and improve my Islam..
asalaam o alaykum to you all!
I like the decency prevailing herein.
I will put it this way. Basically, the question of veil in Islam is but one aspect of a more general principal, which is-interdiction for men and women alike to strip of their clothing and second modesty, decency and propriety commanded to those who live in society for the preservation of morality. I think all of you would agree with that. Hence, the transition from primitive stage, where man/woman is still naked, to civilization is inidicated, by dressing oneself with all available means. Now starting with this principal, which mankind commonly accept, the Qura~n FIRST reasserted:
"O Children of Adam! We have revealed to you raiment to conceal your shame and splendid vesture, but the raiment of restrain from evil, that is best." (7:26)
This was the first position of Islam, whose mission was summed up by these words of Prophet, pbuh, "Allah has sent me in order to bring morality to a state of perfection."
so freinds these rules were first prescibed (for both sexes) as rule of decency towards Allah as Islam strictly forbad naked worship. As time went by, some depraved and immoral elements began to assault Muslim woman, trying to provoke them or offend their chastity. To counter such practices, Allah revealed what brother Zaraatif mentioned (33:59). This was the measure intended to prevent public disturbance. Only the body is concerned by these measures, not face, hands and feet.
I agree with the outcry of sister Zara that there are double standards here and that is mainly because of the male chauvinism. It is worth mentioning that Prophet told Umm Salmah and Maymunah, his wives, to veil themselves when Ibn Umm Maktum entered. 'But he is blind!' they said. The Prophet, pbuh, replied, 'But are you blind too? Do you not see him?' It means that just as men are not encouraged to gaze at woman, likewise woman are to reciprocate in same manner. A poet declares:
'A look, then a smile, then a nod of the head, then a talk, then a promise, then the warmth of a bed.'
And that is why Allah instructs us to lower our gaze (for both of us).
"30. Tell the believing men to lower their gaze, and protect their private parts . That is purer for them. Verily, Allâh is All-Aware of what they do."
31. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze, and protect their private parts and not to show off their adornment except only that which is apparent , and to draw their veils all over Juyubihinna and not to reveal their adornment except to their husbands, their fathers, their husband's fathers, their sons, their husband's sons, their brothers or their brother's sons, or their sister's sons, or their women , or the slaves whom their right hands possess, or old male servants who lack vigour, or small children who have no sense of the shame of sex. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And all of you beg Allâh to forgive you all, O believers, that you may be successful." (24:30-31)
And all this is summed up so beatifully by Prophet, when he told Syedna Ali, that
"Ali do not let a second look follow the first." as this is considered 'zina of eye'. It disturbs mind.
In my mind the underlying theme in all of such injunction is the prohibition of looking at the 'awrah' of others. Looking at others with lustful desire, and eye is the key to all feelings. While it is true that both sexes are to cover themselves in a different fashion, what is uniform is the 'lowering of gaze' which is the same for both.
As regards to following sunnah and the example of Prophet. This too is Qura~n. Allah says:
"Take whatever the messenger gives you and refrain from whatever he forbids you." (59;7)
But important distinction here must be that if it voilates Qura~n, it cant be Sunnah. The fault lies with those reporting the sunnah or hadith. But we can discuss that later, inshaAllah!
Yacoob....having a beard is not fardh, since its not mentioned anywhere in the Quran. Hijab however has been mentioned in the Quran, and the Prophet SAW explained it in terms of how it is to be done. Now we can chose to accept that or ignore it. As for us always trying to 'get the cheapest ticket to heaven', i agree with you. But Allah SWT Himself has said that in the Quran about what he expects from humans. You have to understand the difference between the Paighambars, sahabas, and us human beings. When Allah SWT created man, Hazrat Gibraeel R asked Him as to why He was creating man, since the angels were there to worship Allah, and that the humans would disobey Allah. Allah SWT replied that there would be some pious people from the humans that He creates. In the Quran, Allah SWT has said that the night was created for the man to rest and sleep, and if he prayed instead, it would go in his favor. Another point, initially, Allah SWT ordered Prophet SAW to tell muslims to pray 50 times a day. The prophet SAW asked Allah to reduce it since that might be too much for his ummat..and Allah Taala reduced it to 5 times a day, but retained the sawab to that for 50 salats. All these points are just to say that Allah Taala does now expect humans to follow each and every single aspect of Islam. The fardh are obligatory..there is no way around them. As for the sunnah....the more you do them, the more the sawab. On the day of judgement, humans will only account for their fardhs..not sunnats. Sunnats are like extra credit, except for those sunnats that were explanations of Allahs commands, which include the mode of salat, how to fast, how to perform haj and umra, etc.
apart from what Akif said, we have to see why Prophet pbuh, did what he did. In case of beard, it is reported by Bokhari (his full name Abu Abdullah, Mohammad Bin Ismail, Bokhari, since he hailed from Bokhara) that
"Be different from polytheists (muskrikeen); let the beard grow and trim the moustache."
This if true, would surely confront the findings of K Ahmad (whosoever he is/was) reported by Zaraatif, but anyhow that is not the thrust of the ocnversation. But the purpose of beard is to be different from polytheists. It is to encourage Muslims to develope independent personality. Shaving is an attempt to resemble woman, while the beard (a nicely pruned one, I might add :),is an integral part of masculinity and a distinctive feature of male sex.
Another important factor is dying of grey hair. The Prophet, pbuh also commanded followers to be distinct from Jews and Christians, but it is known that some suhabas did not dye their hair, signifying that it was commendable rather than obligatory.
so imho, not growing beard is not haram. It may be classified as makruh.