Do you condone what happened to the Banu Qurayza tribe (of Yathrib)?
Do you think this is a fabricated story told by Ibn Ishaq and Al-Tabari? If this indeed happened, why didn’t Muhammad SAW, being the last and true messenger of Allah, try to stop this horrific slaughter?
Re: Banu Qurayza
A couple of points.
1) As noted, the history of the Muslims is subject to less strict criteria of authenticity than Hadith & Sunnah, so the story may be inaccurate.
2) Having said that, the Banu Qurayza betrayed their miitary alliance with the Muslims in the middle of battle .
In modern terms, the act of siding with the enemy during wartime is treason; this is punishable by death in many societies including most western societies until quite recently, and is still punishable by death in most eastern societies. In fact, under current US military law, desertion during wartime, the offense commited by the adult men of the Banu Qurayza, still carries a maximum penalty of death.
It was the adult men of the Banu Qurayza who would have been the soldiers in the battle; it was the adult men of the Banu Qurayza who commited treason during the battle; it was the adult men of the Banu Qurayza who were duly punished for this treason.
If the story as recited by Ibn Ishaq is true, then it was not a massacre. It was a mass execution, meted out to those who had committed a capital crime en masse.
Re: Banu Qurayza
JazzakAllah Maddy. May Allah reward you for putting it right and in the most sensible and balanced way. Indeed this was the case.
Re: Banu Qurayza
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it was the adult men of the Banu Qurayza who commited treason during the battle; it was the adult men of the Banu Qurayza who were duly punished for this treason.
[/QUOTE]
furthermore they were punished according to jewsih law for betrayal , as arbitrated by sa'd b Muadh r.a
A couple of points.
1) As noted, the history of the Muslims is subject to less strict criteria of authenticity than Hadith & Sunnah, so the story may be inaccurate.
2) Having said that, the Banu Qurayza betrayed their miitary alliance with the Muslims in the middle of battle .
In modern terms, the act of siding with the enemy during wartime is treason; this is punishable by death in many societies including most western societies until quite recently, and is still punishable by death in most eastern societies. In fact, under current US military law, desertion during wartime, the offense commited by the adult men of the Banu Qurayza, still carries a maximum penalty of death.
It was the adult men of the Banu Qurayza who would have been the soldiers in the battle; it was the adult men of the Banu Qurayza who commited treason during the battle; it was the adult men of the Banu Qurayza who were duly punished for this treason.
If the story as recited by Ibn Ishaq is true, then it was not a massacre. It was a mass execution, meted out to those who had committed a capital crime en masse.
Ok thanks! This makes sense and I am aware of the story. However, my point is why didn't Muhammad SAW being the true messenger of Allah do anything to stop this massacre? This bugs me a bit. How is this any different than what the Taliban are doing? In their opinion, they are also carrying out the order of Allah (they are at war with hypocrites-muslims who don't follow Sharia, killing their own kind in the name of Allah). This entire event justifies what the Taliban are doing today, don't you think? Now I wonder, are the Taliban wrong?
Re: Banu Qurayza
Salaam sister,
This lecture from Sayed Ammar might help you;
wasalam
Re: Banu Qurayza
^ Peace
I have seen the entire lecture, doesn't help. Anyways, the whole point is, Muhammad is supposedly the most just personality to have ever walked the earth. He had the power to stop it from happening, why didn't he? What was the reason to have let this happen? What does this say about Muhammad SAW's intentions? I don't understand and probably never will why he let this happen being the most peaceful man. How can anybody slaughter 600+ men at once is unbelievably cruel. The part that really gets me is that the chilldren and the women were sold into slavery. That's just wrong! I don't care what the men did (I personally believe they didn't deserve it), but what did the children and women do to deserve this treatment? How can anybody condone this? If all was done according to the the Jewish law then why didn't Muhammad SAW do anything to change it? I am sure the women and children weren't begging Muslims to take them as slaves since they were their murderers.
Ok thanks! This makes sense and I am aware of the story. However, my point is why didn't Muhammad SAW being the true messenger of Allah do anything to stop this massacre? This bugs me a bit. How is this any different than what the Taliban are doing? In their opinion, they are also carrying out the order of Allah (they are at war with hypocrites-muslims who don't follow Sharia, killing their own kind in the name of Allah). This entire event justifies what the Taliban are doing today, don't you think? Now I wonder, are the Taliban wrong?
The said tribe was jewish not Muslim and they were punished according to the Medina pact and jewish traditions for betrayal. Where as Taliban (TTP in particular) are slaughtering ordinary people (Muslims or non-Muslims, same rules apply for innocent citizens). TTP don't get the point of killing (an innocent, who didn't attack or betrayed within a treaty) a human is killing the whole humanity according to Prophet Muhammed PBUH's teaching. Whether someone is not as practicing Muslim as they like is none of their business, they don't have rights in any means to take arm against ordinary people. If they want to implement Sharia, fine! they need to educate people by preaching them against the corrupt govt system imposed on us by former British masters and their current agents. Following the teaching of Prophet PBUH is the only way to bring change in the society and one needs to be educated himself before he can teach others, so most of them don't qualify for the job, nor they follow the grand institutions and muftis of this time. What they follow instead is some retarded war mongerer who think killing ordinary non-practicing Muslims in cities will topple the corrupt govt or will defeat their foreign masters/backers. This is the time of Fitna for which Prophet PBUH has warned us, in which neither the killer would know why he killed someone nor the one who is killed would know why he was killed. Time to follow Allah and his Messenger PBUH on individual levels and to do tabligh to those we are responsible for (family) and stay away from taking any sides (TTP or US).
Re: Banu Qurayza
^ But the Jews also wanted to live their lives as they had done previously, they welcomed Muhammad SAW to see if he really was who he said he was. The Jews of Medina weren't convinced so why didn't he let them be? It was Muslims who predicted that the Jews were plotting to assasinate him (saw), it was Muhammad SAW himself who had the revelation that they would drop a rock on his head and ordered the expulsion of Banu Nadir. I don't even understand why Muhammad SAW expelled the Qaynuqa or besieged them in the first place. There are no underlying reasons to kill so many people, that was how people lived back then I guess.
The reason I am comparing the Taliban to the massacre of Banu Qurayza is because the Taliban being a "religious group" knows these battles/wars/expeditions inside out. They are trying to recreate the same environment so they could relive the 7th century in their own way. They believe the rest of the Muslim communities have divided up and no longer follow the true religion revealed by Muhammad SAW, so they are technically hypocrites. They take it upon them to fix the rest of us up so they start killing to show how it's done- exactly how it was done in the 7th century.
Re: Banu Qurayza
Surah 53:3-4
"He does not speak of his own desire but it is a revelation sent to Him"
If it was disliked by Allah SWT, he would have revealed a verse or two showing his anger. One needs to understand the situation and the dangers to the tiny newly created Muslim community. Don't you think Prophet Muhammed didn't confirm the conspiracy and negotations with Quraish by this tribe at that time? Even western writers don't write off such activities. Jewish proved to be the real hidden enemy of Islam on several occassions. The Aws tribesmen were also convinced of Qurayza being involved in conspiracy to cause chaos in the peaceful enviornment they were living in with Muslims in the city.
As they did to many Prophets in past, eventually they tried Poisoning Prophet Muhammed SAW, killed Umar Al Khattab, Uthman and Ali. Such was the animosity deep inside their hearts for a non-Isreali Prophet who they knew was the last and final Prophet.
You need to read more about Jewish of Medina, the top Rabbi convert Abdullah Ibne Sallem story and other incidents. Jewish did consipire with Quraish and later with Byzantine Empire to erase Islam forever.
Re: Banu Qurayza
If Jewish killed Prophets of Almighty, it is OK. Nobody argues, but if they are hit for their wrong-doing then they become the most innocent ppl.
Also to answer your question, the ordinary people of Pakistan are not in a treaty with anyone, so there is a difference.
Re: Banu Qurayza
^ Right. This is all too common in politics, didn't think Islam was the same way. Anyways, I still don't understand how all of this nonsense justifies beheading 600+ men at once. This is beyond me, no amount of explanation will ever recover my shattered faith. I can just close my eyes and hear the screams of the women and children who had to watch their brothers, fathers, sons getting their heads chopped off. I can feel their pain!
Anyways, good day to you all!
Peace
Re: Banu Qurayza
well.............Prophet dealt mercifully with the worst of his enemies...........and forgave even worst of his enemies at the conquest of Mecca............later the same enemies went on to kill and imprison his family...........but thats besides the point..........any account of history that says that he allowed spilling of innocent blood, i will reject.............he was Mercy to the mankind and the whole universe...........he was of the best ikhlaaq and morals.............
Ok thanks! This makes sense and I am aware of the story. However, my point is why didn't Muhammad SAW being the true messenger of Allah do anything to stop this massacre? This bugs me a bit. How is this any different than what the Taliban are doing? In their opinion, they are also carrying out the order of Allah (they are at war with hypocrites-muslims who don't follow Sharia, killing their own kind in the name of Allah). This entire event justifies what the Taliban are doing today, don't you think? Now I wonder, are the Taliban wrong?
Your logic is flawed. You are trying to equate the men of the Banu Qurayza, who engaged in treasonous activity during a battle, with the opponents of the Taliban, who are not traitors.
well.............Prophet dealt mercifully with the worst of his enemies...........and forgave even worst of his enemies at the conquest of Mecca............later the same enemies went on to kill and imprison his family...........but thats besides the point..........any account of history that says that he allowed spilling of innocent blood, i will reject.............he was Mercy to the mankind and the whole universe...........he was of the best ikhlaaq and morals.............
but thats the point they were not innocent
Re: Banu Qurayza
an incidental point that emerges from this discussion is the respect afforded to Jewish law, even when it (presumably) conflicts with Islamic law. would everyone agree
a) In an Islamic state, minorities can choose which laws they want be judged under.
b) The respect afforded to a minority religion should also be afforded to a minority fiqh?
Re: Banu Qurayza
^ Nice save there buddy... although I would have to argue why would the Jewish tradition be honoured here and not elsewhere. Was the punishment declared by a Jewish Rabbi or one of Kohenim (Kahineen) ? There is no independent account of this occurrence which is odd. Also, the only records of this are found in the Islamic tradition and not Jewish (including accounts of the Tae'man Razi Jews, only a handful of whom are left now in Yemen) ... all of which leads me to conclude that such a 'mass execution' is a later-day fabrication to justify something else; perhaps something during the late Umayyid or early Abbasid period?
Re: Banu Qurayza
im not interested in arguing whether the incident occurred. my point was directed towards those who do feel that the incident occurred, and want to know whether they agree with the conclusions Im drawing.
Re: Banu Qurayza
my impression was that the jews chose to abide by the decision of hazrat sa'ad bin muaz. If they had left the decision to the Holy Prophet(saw), he being so merciful would've forgave them.
Re: Banu Qurayza
Narrated Abd-Allah ibn Umar: Banu Nadir and Banu Qurayza fought (against the Prophet violating their peace treaty), so the Prophet exiled Bani An-Nadir and allowed Bani Quraiza to remain at their places (in Medina) taking nothing from them till they fought against the Prophet again). He then killed their men and distributed their women, children and property among the Muslims, but some of them came to the Prophet and he granted them safety, and they embraced Islam. He exiled all the Jews from Medina. They were the Jews of Banu Qaynuqa, the tribe of Abdullah bin Salam and the Jews of Bani Haritha and all the other Jews of Medina.
Sahih Bukhari 5:59:362 - Sahih Muslim 19:4364
Narrated Abu-Sa’id al-Khudri: When the tribe of Banu Qurayza was ready to accept Sad’s judgment, Allah’s Apostle sent for Sad who was near to him. Sad came, riding a donkey and when he came near, Allah’s Apostle said (to the Ansar), “Stand up for your leader.” Then Sad came and sat beside Allah’s Apostle who said to him. “These people are ready to accept your judgment.” Sad said, “I give the judgment that their warriors should be killed and their children and women should be taken as prisoners.” The Prophet then remarked, “O Sad! You have judged amongst them with (or similar to) the judgment of the King Allah.”
Sahih Bukhari 4:52:280 - Sahih Bukhari 5:58:148 - Sahih Bukhari 8:74:278 - Sahih Muslim 19:4368 - Sahih Muslim 19:4369