Bangladeshis are NOT Pakistanis

Arts & Culture Culture, Arts, Literature & Linguistics
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… in response to something i read by someone in one of these threads in the Culture Forum. Someone stated that Bangladeshis are Pakistanis “through and through”, and i am honestly just confused to read that. Wouldn’t that defeat the purpose of certain historical events that occurred, i.e., them gaining their ‘independence’ ? Isn’t it like stating that Pakistanis are Indians “through and through”? Wouldn’t a Bengali person be insulted to read that… i mean sure the cultural and religious similarities abound, but technically speaking, from an official point of view they are two separate groups of people are they not? i don’t want to step on anyone’s toes here, i’m honestly just wondering what the deal is behind this. Why officially celebrate your own independence day if you are essentially perceived of as just the same as someone else?

As for saying that cultural and religious similarities exist between the two groups - well, one could argue the exact same for two Arab countries like the UAE and Oman. Both of them are neighbours of each other, Muscat is not even TOO far from Abu Dhabi. And both share cultural and religious similarities. Okay so the analogy is not that great because neither Gulf country underwent a painful partition process, but - that’s my whole point. Bangladesh and Pakistan did go through a partition so, notwithstanding the fact that they share cultural/religious aspects, it isn’t feasible to state that one group is just the same as the other through and through. It’s like stating that Canadians are Americans; yeah, culturally there are not many differences, but technically speaking, two different groups of people do exist.

Am i right or wrong?

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It simply comes down to how you define a nationality.

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MS? :eek:

Acha. So how do you define a nationality. Let’s pretend that there are three people having a convo - two Pakistanis and one Bengali. Pretend you are one of the Pakistanis, and infront of the Bengali, i want you to explain how one defines a nationality while keeping the Pakistani-Bengali history in mind. Keep in mind also that the Bengali listening to you will have her/his own definitions, naturally.

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MS? :eek:

Apart from a few oddballs, i dont think anyone realistically indulges in the notion that we’re the same country. However you define nationality MS, I dont think you would be able to define bangladeshis as the same as yours.

People in Bangladesh who think they’re Pakistanis mostly live in refugee camps. And we dont think they’re Pakistanis either :).

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MS? :eek:

Well, I tell my Bangladeshi friends that I think they’re Pakistanis deep down. They only think I’m teasing them :smiley:

By all accounts through which Bangladesh claims to be a distinct nation (culture, language, history), then baluchistan should be a distinct nation, Sindh should be a distinct nation, Punjab should be a distinct nation, and Pakhtunistan should exist as a distinct nation.

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Are you guys mocking me? :hoonh: ha ha very funny :hoonh: i was only surprised to see Maddy’s reply especially in the Culture Forum :snooty: :stuck_out_tongue:

But the point is, all of the ‘groups’ you have mentioned, are NOT separate nations. Not in the eyes of the law and technically speaking. They can clamor for their own independent nations but until they occupy a seat in the United Nations as an independent, sovereign state recognized as such by others, their desires will forever remain that - a desire. Not a fact. Bangladesh DOES have its own separate independence day… and definitely does occupy its own sovereign seat in the UN. In the eyes of the law and on paper, they are a separate nation by every account. In reality, we may like to gloss over that with talk about cultural/religous similarities, but technically speaking, it’s a fact that these are two separate groups now.

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:/ you spoiled the sequence of it nadia.

An Indian might similarly think that if Pakistan is a seperate nation, Christian majority areas should be seperated too, Goa should be made Pakistan 2, etc etc.

Bangladesh chose to seperate, and did.

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Are you suggesting that I’m not cultured? :hoonh: Just cos I think that nuking Japan was right and that Samuel Huntingdon’s a genius doesn’t mean you have to insult me like this :teary1:

But anyway, coming back to the point, you’ve opened up a new avenue of approach for me. If, having described how Pakistan is a collection of distinct ethnicities, we now take a definition of “Pakistani” as being a people (as well as a nation), one could then say that Pakistan and Bangladesh are “one people, two nations”.

Hence the statement that “Bangladeshis are Pakistanis through and through” still applies, it’s just that the definition of Pakistani would need to be that of a people and not a nation.

In fact, that’s probably an accurate defintion. Many guppies, in fact, are not from the nation that is the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, being born in the UK, USA, Canda, or other places, and yet identify themselves as “Pakistani”. Surely this proves that “Pakistani” is a people, not a nation? In which case, the fact that Bangladesh is a seperate country is not of relevance.

So, Bangladeshis are Pakistanis through and through, they just don’t realise it :wink:

On a more serious note, the fact that they choose to maintain a separate nation for their predominantly Muslim land from predominantly Hindu India proves that they adhere to the founding philosophy and principle of Pakistan - the concept that Muslims and Hindus are a separate nation.

And, to me, anyone who upholds the two-nation theory is a Pakistani at heart :slight_smile:

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hollow words MS.. we've never lived upto our idealogy. If we did, we should've airlifted those scores of people clamoring for their pakistani identity back.

and the notion of all of them being spies is ridiculous. utterly frikkin ridiculous.

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
hollow words MS.. we've never lived upto our idealogy. If we did, we should've airlifted those scores of people clamoring for their pakistani identity back.
[/QUOTE]

True, but successive governments have been afraid of the impact on Pakistan's stability. Sindh is still psychologically recovering from the tensions between Sindhis and the Muhajirs who settled predominantly there. If the Biharis were repatriated, they would most likely settle in Karachi, and again Sindhis would (understandibly) see themselves getting a smaller piece of the pie that's their own land, and more tension would result.

It's a case of practicality unfortunately having to supercede ideology.

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so where the indian muslims fit ?

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by ravage: *
**Bangladesh chose to seperate, and did.
[/QUOTE]
*

Ravage, Does that mean you believe Pakistanis and Bangladeshis are two separate groups at least officially, notwithstanding cultural/religious similarities here and there? i forgot to add in the beginning of my thread that we all should (perhaps) bear in mind that some linguistic differences do exist.

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Pakistan was once part of Bangladesh ! :(

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hey, i meant to reply to your posts regarding Japan and Huntington. No, of course, it wasn’t the fact that i don’t think you are “cultured”. It’s just that - i don’t remember the last time you posting in this Forum, that’s all, just like i don’t often post in the Business&Economics Forum. It has nothing to do with anyone being more or less cultured… “cultured” is a very subjective word. ooh that sounds like another possible thread idea :smiley:

See, Maddy, my point has more to do with facts and realities on the ground, from a legal perspective. Pakistan is a collection of distinct ethnicities. So is Canada, for that matter. The Quebecois will claim they are a separate people and a separate nation. For as long as they don’t achieve independence from Canada, they can only claim it, they haven’t achieved it yet in the eyes of the world. Until and unless you have your own seat at the UN, and your sovereignty is officially recognized by other member states, you haven’t gained independence. So therefore, all the -stans in Pakistan that want their own nation, aren’t sovereign in any legal sense of the word. But type in “Bangladesh independence day” in google and a thousand links pop up; they do have their own independence day that is just as much cherished by them, as our’s is by us. They have their own seat at the UN. They are fully independent and fully sovereign from Pakistan now. LEGALLY, they are a separate people. Culturally we (Pakistan, BD, India) all share similarities but legally - they are as distinct from us as we are from India.

aha. But trying say that to a Bengali.

Why do you so badly want Bangladeshis to be considered Pakistanis? :stuck_out_tongue: Do you miss them that much?

**
No. Whatever a person considers themselves to be inside, is what they are inside. No other person can define someone else… only Allah has that Power, but no mortal being.

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[QUOTE]
Originally posted by rvikz: *
**so where the indian muslims fit ?
[/QUOTE]
*

i am not certain.

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yeah, you kinda vanished after I posted in thos threads :hoonh: I thought I had bullied you into being quiet or something

mAd_ScIeNtIsT—> :devil: :crying: <— Nadia_H

Ah, but did the guy who said that Bangladeshis are Pakistanis say that he meant that in a legal sense?

The nearest I got to saying that to one, the reply went something like “Do you want me to ****ing punch you?”

They’re nice people :slight_smile: … plus I have ideological reasons too.

You quite nicely ignored the part of my statement that said (note the bold) , "*And, to me, anyone who upholds the two-nation theory is a Pakistani at heart : ) *

Meaning it was what I considered them to be inside, rather than what they consider themselves to be inside.

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Nadia, I made the comment out of love for them, not out of perceived idea of nationalistic oneness. At numerous times my Indian school mates come and tell me that I act/look more Indian than a Pakistani. They probably are referring to my darker skin and rather polite gestures. I never get offended; instead tell them that my parents migrated from India anyway.

So, yes ... you can call me Indian through & through, I won't consider it an attack on my Pakistani-ness.

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MS? :eek:

nadz i hafta get back to doing some work yaar so i havent read ur thread yet, jus skimmed thru it, mite b back here laters, but i just wanted to do that ms thing above since all of u were doing it n i wanted to do it too :blush: :smiley: :hehe:

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Pakistanis and Bengalis are very close to each other and are like two brothers living 2 thousand miles apart. However, I do respect that they call themselves Bangladeshis. I have absolutely no problem with that, since they want to be called Bangladeshis. We are still one with two different names. Names do not make a difference, religion does. In the current situation of Muslims where nationalism has been taught deep into people, it is only rational not to get into this discussion. In fact, even the name Pakistan would become secondary once the united Muslim state comes into being.

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Isloo...is the timetable for that state like "never" or "close to never"...can you give a hint?