Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy
Please define Sardari system to me anti..does it mean a leader who is unaccountable, dispenses patronage and cannot be removed? Someone who spends most of the local resources on weapons and personal luxuries?
If it does, I don’t think builidng motorways frees people.
Perhaps you can explain how you oppose sardars and supporta government which is dominated by Sardars, feudals, leaders of big biradris, crooks etc at the same time?
Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy
Don't think you have ever been to Balochistan. Otherwise you won't be desperately googling for definitions on Saradari and Bardaris.
Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy
I think you are scared of the answers exposing your hypocrisy and thats why you can’t answer.
Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy
Scared from bunch of tribal @$$ warriors. Nah!
These tribals have been kicked around from Kandhar, to Kohlu, to Mogadeshu, to Ryadh, to liberia, to Sierra leon. Same africans, same tribals, same $hite.
Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy
^ like i said you can't define what you oppose..you just think violence is the solution to problems.
Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy
Why are all areas of Pakistan so adamant of becoming independent? Why can all provinces not retain their individual identities but still remain Pakistani overall? Here in the UK, we have different 'countries' that make up the UK or Great Britain. These countries, ENGLAND, IRELAND SCOTLAND, WALES have their own regional governments but answer to ONE SOVEREIGN government and all are known as British when being referred to collectively. I don't understand why the same thing cannot apply in Pakistan? Surely such a structure would be more beneficial to all the provinces rather than becoming independent?
Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy
There is very little difference. Well I guess India does not use gunships in Kashmir.
Amorphous, people should have control of resources in the areas they live in. If Sindhis were in majority in Karachi, they would have control. Anyway, let’s stick to the problem and topic at hand. Balochi masses are completely alienated in Pakistan.
It’s funny that Pakistanis are so adamant about self determination in Kashmir, but oppose the same basic right in Balochistan. Height of hypocrisy.
Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy
Yes, India does not use gunships in Kashmir because Indian approach is tactically different. But what 700,000 troops are doing there?
Enough of it! Islamabad should not pay a single pesa in royalty to these Bugtis, Marris and Mengals. The best way is to invest all the money into infrastructure so that money does not go into anyone’s pocket and is usable by all, without any question of loyalty and affiliation.
Islamabad has allocated Rs133 billion for Balochistan. This speaks volume if one is not carrying any hearing impediment. We do not have oil wells at our disposal so we can not make it $133 billion. By the way, do people in Balochistan mean Nawab Akbar Bugti only?
Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy
My point is there is virtually no difference between the treatment of Kashmiris by India and the treatment of Balochis by Pakistan. It is equally abhorrent.
And you just can't seem to understand the idea of CONTROL OVER RESOURCES, can you? It doesn’t mean handouts or bribes for particular projects that may or may not benefit the locals. It means the Balochis should have control over the money they make from gas royalties to do what they like. It's there money to begin with. Islamabad is giving them part of their money back! And I don't mean make Bugti chief sardar of Balochistan, but an elected government in a free and fair election without ISI interference.
And this isn't a fight about money but about rights like with all the provinces. Untill that happens, they will continue to fight and have hatred towards Pakistan and particularly Punjab.
Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy
Absolutely a federal system with a fair share of resources equal opportunities and proper regional/provincial/state governments is the ideal situation. As I’ve said countless times before, some ethnic parties (and pro military ones) would disappear the second after proper autonomy is granted. The ethnic parties wouldn’t be able to blame Islamabad or Punjab for whats going on and the pro Army supporters wouldn’t have an excuse to support violence against their fellow countrymen all the time.
Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy
[quote]
Amorphous, people should have control of resources in the areas they live in. If Sindhis were in majority in Karachi, they would have control. Anyway, let's stick to the problem and topic at hand. Balochi masses are completely alienated in Pakistan.
It's funny that Pakistanis are so adamant about self determination in Kashmir, but oppose the same basic right in Balochistan. Height of hypocrisy.
[/quote]
Karachi and Balochistan ARE related in every way. Pakistan was for Pakistanis. That's WHY you're in this country today. That's WHY your family has land-holdings in Sindh. If Mohajirs had the right to migrate everywhere in Pakistan, why are you supporting people who hinder development mainly because they're afraid of other Pakistanis moving to Gawadar? Do you not see the connection between Sindh and Gawadar? Oh well, you're a majority now, so Iltaf Bhai can safely call the shots from London. Thank God, you're not a representative of Mohajir people who are as much Pakistani as anyone who was here before partition.
And what hypocrisy I ask? You ask us to seek inspiration from India? How many times have *you *talked about what's going on in Kashmir, which unlike Balochistan, Asam or Northern Ireland is a disputed territory? (Not in your eyes though!) How many have been killed there? How many have been raped? How many houses/shrines have been burnt? You don't keep count in Kashmir, do you?
In other thread, you're supporting the Saradrs' desire to secede from Pakistan. Then you have the nerve to ask us to seek inspiration from India - a country that has brutally suppressed any freedom struggle within its own territory. Who is hypocrite here? Yashwant Senha comes to Pakistan, and on a question about Kashmir says that 'right of secession is not a democratic right'. But in Balochistan it is a democratic right for you? What about some inspiration from India? If Pakistan is suffering today, it is because of fifth-columnists and anarchists, not because of any military check post in Balochistan.
If you want to restructure Pakistan, start from 1947, not from 2006.
Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy
Amorphous, I don’t follow your logic. In 1947, Sindhis welcomed us. In 2006, Balochis aren’t welcoming anybody.
And please don’t put words in my mouth. I had mentioned India’s economic progress and never supported their actions in Kashmir. Just for the record I support autonomy as a means to solve the Kashmir and Balochistan problems. But I do believe that every person ahs a right to secede from a union if that union fails. Read the 1940 Lahore resolution for more info.
Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy
I might have misinterpreted your words. I apologize for that.
I understand your point of view. According to this logic, India should let Kashmir and Asam secede. A referendum should be held in East Punjab to determine their will. Hyderabad, Jonagar and Manawadar should become independent states. There are a number of regions in Europe, North America, Asia and Greater Middle East which could be allowed to become independent countries. If all other countries follow the same rules, then I would certainly favor secession for Balochistan (or whatever they want). I'm ready to do it even if you could convince Afghanistan and Iran to give up their territories that are claimed by these Baloch nationalists.
Nevertheless I never opposed the idea of autonomy. They should have control over their resources. I don't want to be accused of the crimes I never committed. I only feel sorry for the people who have the likes of Akbar Bugti to represent themselves. They deserved better.
Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy
Height of hypocrisy:smack: Self determination for Balochis???
Daym…someone is highly confused here or just being a smart a$$.
What do you mean by self determination in Balochistan??? Are you trying to say that Pakistan has captured Balochistan ignoring self determination right of Balochis approved by United Nations??? Balochis have right to ask for better living standards, jobs, infrastructure etc etc but that is not what you call right of “self determination”, they are part of the country and they need to follow the rules and regulations.
Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy
Guys, there is no use arguing...Sardari System and underdevelopment serves Punjab's interests best...
Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy
It is always some elses fault, always…
Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy
Self-determination is the basic right of everyone. It simply means allowing people to choose their form of government structure and exercise their sovereign powers over their own affairs. Rule and regulations should not be imposed on people without their consent.