Baluchistan: A human tragedy

[Amal]

Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy

Zakk, why are you so one-sided and hell-bent on proving that no one is correct and genuine except you and Nawab Akbar Bugti? If you believe that Islamabad is 100% wrong, than it is useless to talk to you.

By the way, I won't be surprised if you are Nawab Akbar Bugti himself :)

[legbreakgoogly]

Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy

Zakk should live my his convictions, pick up a gun and take the fight to those terrorists in Islamabad.

[Amal]

Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy

@Khehkeshan

How has the motorway improved the lives of ordinary Punjabis?

Motorway did not change my life any bit. But I value it because it is an asset to Pakistan. I am from Punjab, but I am not Punjabi, I am a Pakistani and my thinking starts where my self ends!

[Zakk]

Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy

Amal & lbg: thanks for your kind suggestions. I’d suggest you both volunteer to fight in balochistan (or Waziristan), as soon as you kill a few Baloch young girls do tell their families how the new road that is being built will make it easier for the little girls to be buried faster. I am sure your support for killing little girls will guarantee you a fast track to a medal and a sure berth in heaven.

P.s: Don’t worry about salaries, I’ve heard a single policeman at a police picket in some areas of Balochistan can earn crores (don’t expect to use gas to warm your house though). Also give my namaste to Mr Bugti and inform him the RAW plan of the ghaddars to resolve issues through dialogue and not through the gun have failed.

[aka]

Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy

The following paper, discusses the issues and problems behind the Baluchi conflict.
http://www.carnegieendowment.org/files/CP65.Grare.FINAL.pdf

[legbreakgoogly]

Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy

@Zakk

Amal & lbg: thanks for your kind suggestions. I’d suggest you both volunteer to fight in balochistan (or Waziristan), as soon as you kill a few Baloch young girls do tell their families how the new road that is being built will make it easier for the little girls to be buried faster. I am sure your support for killing little girls will guarantee you a fast track to a medal and a sure berth in heaven.

P.s: Don’t worry about salaries, I’ve heard a single policeman at a police picket in some areas of Balochistan can earn crores (don’t expect to use gas to warm your house though). Also give my namaste to Mr Bugti and inform him the RAW plan of the ghaddars to resolve issues through dialogue and not through the gun have failed.

We are not supporting killing innocent people, she is a casulty of the idiot choices of some of the tribesmen.

I take it you support Balouch independence?

[mYsTeRiOuS_gUy]

Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy

@Zakk

Amal & lbg: thanks for your kind suggestions. I’d suggest you both volunteer to fight in balochistan (or Waziristan), as soon as you kill a few Baloch young girls do tell their families how the new road that is being built will make it easier for the little girls to be buried faster. I am sure your support for killing little girls will guarantee you a fast track to a medal and a sure berth in heaven.

P.s: Don’t worry about salaries, I’ve heard a single policeman at a police picket in some areas of Balochistan can earn crores (don’t expect to use gas to warm your house though). Also give my namaste to Mr Bugti and inform him the RAW plan of the ghaddars to resolve issues through dialogue and not through the gun have failed.

You are using those young innocent girls to defend ba*****s like Bugti. The facts is that there are some illetrate fools blowing up pipelines, killing and kidnapping enginners, damaging properties etc and they are supposedly “FIGHTING FOR RIGHTS”.
You know pretty well that those people are not there to kill young girls, it’s unfortunate if anything like this happens but you can’t leave those idiots to blowup everything for fun right??

[Khehkeshan]

Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy

@mYsTeRiOuS_gUy

You are using those young innocent girls to defend ba*****s like Bugti. The facts is that there are some illetrate fools blowing up pipelines, killing and kidnapping enginners, damaging properties etc and they are supposedly “FIGHTING FOR RIGHTS”.
You know pretty well that those people are not there to kill young girls, it’s unfortunate if anything like this happens but you can’t leave those idiots to blowup everything for fun right??

Indians say the same thing about Kashmiris. Israelis about Palestinians.

They are fighting for control of their resources. They live on the land, they own the resources. There is nothing to debate, unless it’s about how the Balochis will get control over their resources.

[mYsTeRiOuS_gUy]

Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy

@Khehkeshan

Indians say the same thing about Kashmiris. Israelis about Palestinians.

They are fighting for control of their resources. They live on the land, they own the resources. There is nothing to debate, unless it's about how the Balochis will get control over their resources.

Mashallah!! What a comparison:biggthumb
Take a deep breath, think for a second and tell me if you see no difference in Balochistan's situation and the one in Kashmir and Palestine.

[aka]

Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy

Baluchi Blogsite
http://governmentofbalochistan.blogspot.com/

Their flag

A futuristic map according to them

[system]

Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy

Feudalism must be stopped in Balochistan at all costs.

[system]

Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy

@Zakk

Recent independent estimates have put the number of displaced people at 50,000. Baloch nationlists last year clarified how poorly represented the Baloch are in the federal system with some figures apparently: the Federal Frontier Corps in Balochistan was 33,000 strong and had only 300 Baloch in it and there were 584 FC check posts in Balochistan where the total population was 6.5 million. Also the recent violence broke out after the Federal government once again reneged on its promise of greater autonomy. The opposition has no way of verifying whats going on because the government has decided not to allow them to visit the region.

When pride stands in the way of tears
Balochistan diaries: Our special correspondent Bahzad Alam Khan has just returned from Balochistan. This is the first of a series of reports

DEH KHALIAN (District Jafarabad): Fifty-something Fateh Ali says he is too proud a Baloch to cry over the death of a child in public. Yet he struggles to hold back his tears as he recalls how his young daughter was killed when army helicopter gunships strafed the suburbs of Dera Bugti one chilly night last December in an operation that was ostensibly meant to target militants engaged in anti-state guerilla warfare.

“My girl had just had her evening meal when she was hit by shrapnel from one of the many bombs dropped by the army helicopters that hovered over our mud-brick huts near Haft Wali for hours that night. The troops who took part in the operation must have known full well that they were attacking a civilian settlement unable to return fire,” he says, clenching his fists in helpless anger. “I wish I had the means to take revenge.”

Ali now lives with hundred-odd Bugti tribesmen on desolate farmland irrigated by the Pat Feeder canal, lined with eucalyptus and acacia trees, in Jafarabad.

With womenfolk confined to an improvised thatched hut, the men, with long-barreled rifles slung over their shoulders, lazily take turns to graze whatever cattle they are left with.

“The army helicopters destroyed our standing wheat crops. They also destroyed the grain stored from last year’s crop.

We fled the area in such haste that we left behind the bodies of our near and dear ones unburied. Our children are not going to school anymore and young, able-bodied members of our tribe, who were previously employed, are constantly harried by law-enforcement agencies,” says Ali Nawaz.

Showing remarkable courage in the face of adversity, these displaced tribesmen say they still look up to Nawab Akbar Bugti with unimpaired loyalty.

Asked how they would have felt if the Nawab had mended fences with the establishment through negotiations and they would not have been dislodged from their ancestral towns, they give incensed looks and a curt reply: “No, the Nawab is a fighter.

“Like us, he is also suffering. And we will go back to Dera Bugti only when he returns to his house. We will win our war,” says Nawaz with the resolution of an armed warrior, although, by his own admission, his only worldly possession is a worn-out sheepskin water-container, known as the “khalli” in the vernacular.

It is unclear how many Bugti displaced people (DPs) actually poured into neighbouring cities and towns following the outbreak of hostilities between the warring tribesmen and the law-enforcement agencies in the early summer of last year.

The Dera Bugti Nazim, Kazim Bugti, puts the number of DPs at over a hundred thousand. His assertions about the involvement of army helicopters in Dera Bugti military operations lend credence to the claims of the DPs. The accusation is stoutly denied by the government, however.

The vice-president of the Jamhori Watan Party, Rafiq Ahmed Khoso, says that not only were sophisticated weapons used against largely unprotected civilian settlements but relief workers were also turned away. “I visited many camps of DPs in Nasirabad, Jafarabad, Kashmore and other neighbouring towns. And I was told that Edhi relief volunteers were asked either to leave or operate among DPs without government security.”

However, a spokesman for the Edhi Foundation says that a four-member team visited camps of DPs in Jafarabad, Nasirabad and Dera Murad Jamali about two months back and returned only when Dera Bugti’s top bureaucracy chief, Abdul Samad Lasi, told them that they would be called when needed. “Mr Lasi assured us that the government would do all it could to help the DPs,” says the spokesman.

“You can ask anybody here whether he has received government assistance or not. Their answer will be a big ‘no’,” says Mr Khoso, pointing to the Bugti tribesmen in Deh Khalian. They nod in agreement. But just as the government is rattled about the flight of warlike Bugtis into other areas, people of neighbouring towns and cities view their influx with ill-concealed unease. According to former prime minister Mir Zafarullah Khan Jamali, whose constituency (NA-266) is currently playing host to thousands of DPs, Bugti tribesmen can hardly be expected to be greeted with open arms in Nasirabad and Jafarabad, strongholds of the Jamali tribe.

“Bugti DPs are a problem for us. You see, they are not accustomed to living in peace and harmony. In the past, they lived by plunder and loot. Such offences obviously did not add to their popularity among the people of neighbouring cities who were their victims. But the government seems to be determined to change the demographic complexion of Dera Bugti,” says Mr Jamali alluding to the recent migration of Kalpar and Masouri who were in the bad books of Nawab Akbar Bugti.

It is widely believed that the Kalpars and Masouris returned to their ancestral towns in Dera Bugti only when they were guaranteed continued state protection and a steady supply of funds, weapons and food.

“This is nothing but a rumour,” says Mohammad Kalpar (named changed on request) in Dera Murad Jamali.

“Of course we need protection in an area dominated for long by our enemies. But one thing gives me sleepless nights. I know that sooner or later the government will strike a deal with the Nawab, who has not been killed by troops despite the fact that they know very well where he is in the mountains. And when that happens, the Nawab will persecute us with a vengeance.

We have been betrayed by the government at least twice in the past. How do we know that we won’t be betrayed again?” he asks.

And this is the source of your information?
The Government of Balochistan in Exile

[Amal]

Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy

Thanx for the link Pakistani Dragon

Zakk, problem remains the same. While we wholeheartedly condemn and mourn every killing of any innocent, you are not ready to budge an inch from your position. That's why I said that you are dangerously one-sided. And perhaps that's what's happening between tribal leaders and Islamabad.

By the way, I do not call it a problem between Balochistan and Islamabad. It's a problem between Balochi tribal leaders and Pakistan.

[lakkis25]

Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy

@Khehkeshan

Indians say the same thing about Kashmiris. Israelis about Palestinians.

They are fighting for control of their resources. They live on the land, they own the resources. There is nothing to debate, unless it’s about how the Balochis will get control over their resources.

What resources kashmir have, other then tourism there is nothing there:naraz:
other then Army nobody interested to go there

[Sa1eem]

Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy

Khehkeshan:

How many Balochi people will get jobs? How many Balochis will be part of the management of the port? How many Balochis will gain a better future from this port? Will it improve the lives of the Bugtis in any way?

As many as would apply and would qualify. All federal and provincial government jobs under grade 17 are supposed to go to local job Seekers. Provincial jobs above grade 17 goes to provinces. Federal jobs over grade 17 goes on quota and Balochs need least grade amongst all provinces to fill these jobs still I believe that all jobs are not taken by Balochs, thus goes to others. Thus, the main need of Balochistan is new schools, colleges and universities that can produce qualified applicants (that what present government also wants).

As for jobs in private sectors, how can anyone enforce anything there? Private sectors when create jobs, they give it to those available and are most suitable. Obviously, at lower level, most jobs are filled by those available and in Balochistan, it would bring lot of opening to local people. At higher level also if any suitable Baloch would apply, there is no reason that they will not get the job. Again, here also good education would help.

All said, nothing would happen nor any job would go to anyone in Balochistan unless development happens and jobs created. That is only possible if people in the area realizes the benefits and let the development works follow (while Baloch Sardars start thinking of the province, people and stop thinking selfishly Or get defeated Or their supporters start deserting them).

Zakk:

So translate to me, in english preferably, why did Fateh Alis daughter die again? Is that death part of the new policy you support?

Fateh Ali’s daughter died so that things changes in Balochistan and no innocent people like her get killed by thug Sardars in Balochistan (or in cross fighting between law enforcement agencies and rebel Sardars). She died so that Balochistan also get same level of development as other provinces, development what they deserve. She died so that others like her in the area could go to school, have right on property they buy, live securely where they are living, find jobs on merit and get protection of Police and court against anyone (even if that maybe Sardar of the area). She died so that other balochs open their eyes and realize the crooks in their ranks. She died so that new star of opportunities and human rights can shine over Balochistan and dark clouds of Tribalism and Sardarism disappears. Here is an example what happens when realization starts (something for what this innocent girl died).

http://www.dawn.com/2006/07/15/welcome.htm

600 supporters of Nawab Bugti surrender arms in Balochistan QUETTA, Pakistan, July 15 (AP) Over 600 alleged supporters of a tribal elder blamed for attacking gas fields and security forces in Balochistan surrendered to local authorities on Saturday, officials said. The men had carried out attacks on the orders of Nawab Akbar Bugti, and ``we have granted them amnesty,‘’ said a top government official in the region. He said Bugti’s top commander, Khan Mohammed Masoori, was among those who surrendered at a public ceremony in Dera Bugti town. A spokesman for the provincial government confirmed the men had surrendered. A spokesman for the tribal elder, Agha Shahid Bugti, refused to comment. (Posted @ 15:50 PST)

[Zakk]

Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy

@Amal

you are not ready to budge an inch from your position. That’s why I said that you are dangerously one-sided. And perhaps that’s what’s happening between tribal leaders and Islamabad.

By the way, I do not call it a problem between Balochistan and Islamabad. It’s a problem between Balochi tribal leaders and Pakistan.

pray tell what stance is that? The only thing I’ve argued is you eliminate the political grievences of the Baloch problem (fair share of resources, control over their own development, essentially basic human dignity) and immediately 90% of the support for the insurgency will disappear. Thats just common sense, it is far harder to drain a swamp to stop mosquitoes than kill each and every mosquitoe. As far as Pakistan versus Baloch tribal leaders, the same calling everyone a ghaddar arguments been used throughout Pakistans history. Its an old excuse to use violence to solve every problem and its always been proven wrong with time.

[Amorphous]

Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy

[quote]
Its an old excuse to use violence to solve every problem and its always been proven wrong with time.
[/quote]
Right!

Savage sardars must understand that they can not win by blowing up Lahore bound buses in Quetta, killing engineers working in the province, detonating bombs in markets, planting landmines along the routes frequented by ordinary people, firing rockets at the security posts, and prostituting themselves to enemies of the state so that they get enough publicity and enough weaponry to continue this violence.

[Amorphous]

Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy

@Khehkeshan

They are fighting for control of their resources. They live on the land, they own the resources. There is nothing to debate, unless it's about how the Balochis will get control over their resources.

For starters, try giving Sindhis control over their resources in Karachi.

[Zakk]

Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy

@Amorphous

Right!

Savage sardars must understand that they can not win by blowing up Lahore bound buses in Quetta, killing engineers working in the province, detonating bombs in markets, planting landmines along the routes frequented by ordinary people, firing rockets at the security posts, and prostituting themselves to enemies of the state so that they get enough publicity and enough weaponry to continue this violence.

Where did i disagree with that? conversely the Feds should stop behaving like those Sardars they supposedly oppose and empower the people of Balochistan to resolve their own issues. You can’t oppose Sardari, Biradri or feudal politics and equally behave like one,.. actually you can but it just means you are being a hypocrite and insincere.

[antiobl]

Re: Baluchistan: A human tragedy

@Zakk

Where did i disagree with that? conversely the Feds should stop behaving like those Sardars they supposedly oppose and empower the people of Balochistan to resolve their own issues. You can't oppose Sardari, Biradri or feudal politics and equally behave like one,.. actually you can but it just means you are being a hypocrite and insincere.

The only way to rid the Sardari system is to build 6 lane highways, Large ports, police stations, and army forts.

Sardari system doesn't disappear by magic. You have to work hard, remain peacerful, and invite more businesses in your area. Only then you will see that the sardari system will disappear slowly over many decades.

OTOH The more anarchy, the bigger the sardari system.