Balochistan crisis & its resolution!

[Sa1eem]

Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!

Population of Baluchsitan is ~8 million. Balochs are ~5 million (~3 million Balochs and ~ 2 million Barohis). I believe, most Baloch fear that if Baluchistan develops then they will see huge influx of people from other provinces, especially Punjab that has ~110 million people, making them (Baluchs) minority in Baluchistan.

Balochs, as part of Pakistan, have seen nothing but discrimination, persecution, and deprivation, worse than British, who ruled them but respected them too. Balochs financial situation and facilities is worse than anywhere in Pakistan, even though Baluchistan is the richest province per head.

It is unfortunate that inter-provincial migration brought many exploiters (some may like to call them settlers) into Baluchistan who with the help of military and establishment treated Balochs as people occupied.

For example, there are many Baloch lawyers but still out of 15 Chief justices of Baluchistan high court since 1971 (when one unit ended), more than half are settlers (mostly from Punjab). Five of those CJs got promoted to Supreme Court, and as far as I know, all were Punjabi settlers.

It is not only that, but most government posts in Baluchistan are filled by people from outside Baluchistan (mostly Punjab). I think such could not go on if Pakistan is to stay as one country.

In my opinion, inter-provincial migration has to stop at least until time when people would start trusting each other, jobs would not be in short supply, and merit in government recruitment would be only criteria (acceptable by everyone) all over Pakistan.

We should understand that it is not 1947 when people migrated from India (vice versa) because of religion or persecution. All present inter-provincial migration that is happening in Pakistan is for opportunity and exploitation, something that even Islam do not allow.

I think, Pakistan should enact laws that would make inter-provincial migration as difficult as possible (if not impossible). Laws should make changing domicile impossible except in exceptional circumstances and obtaining domicile needing long connections with province, like birth and education from childhood (no fake domicile). Further, all employed in administration, policing, and judiciary should be from people who are ethnically local.

And after enacting such laws, government should talk to Baloch Sardars assuring them that they would not become minority in their own land due to economical settlers, and that they would have first right over mineral resources coming from Baluchistan. I believe if that would be done than things would change in Baluchistan.

[Doppleganger]

Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!

Did you get some covert directions from altaf bhai's telefonie khitabs that you so love BLA, BRA and hate settlers now? Btw, the majority settlers aka Pashtuns have been there for 100s of years. Balochistan would see an influx of people whether you like it or not, so bagti marri etc need to learn to fit well with others.

[CM]

Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!

@Sa1eem

Population of Baluchsitan is ~8 million. Balochs are ~5 million (~3 million Balochs and ~ 2 million Barohis). I believe, most Baloch fear that if Baluchistan develops then they will see huge influx of people from other provinces, especially Punjab that has ~110 million people, making them (Baluchs) minority in Baluchistan.

Balochs, as part of Pakistan, have seen nothing but discrimination, persecution, and deprivation, worse than British, who ruled them but respected them too. Balochs financial situation and facilities is worse than anywhere in Pakistan, even though Baluchistan is the richest province per head.

It is unfortunate that inter-provincial migration brought many exploiters (some may like to call them settlers) into Baluchistan who with the help of military and establishment treated Balochs as people occupied.

For example, there are many Baloch lawyers but still out of 15 Chief justices of Baluchistan high court since 1971 (when one unit ended), more than half are settlers (mostly from Punjab). Five of those CJs got promoted to Supreme Court, and as far as I know, all were Punjabi settlers.

It is not only that, but most government posts in Baluchistan are filled by people from outside Baluchistan (mostly Punjab). I think such could not go on if Pakistan is to stay as one country.

In my opinion, inter-provincial migration has to stop at least until time when people would start trusting each other, jobs would not be in short supply, and merit in government recruitment would be only criteria (acceptable by everyone) all over Pakistan.

We should understand that it is not 1947 when people migrated from India (vice versa) because of religion or persecution. All present inter-provincial migration that is happening in Pakistan is for opportunity and exploitation, something that even Islam do not allow.

I think, Pakistan should enact laws that would make inter-provincial migration as difficult as possible (if not impossible). Laws should make changing domicile impossible except in exceptional circumstances and obtaining domicile needing long connections with province, like birth and education from childhood (no fake domicile). Further, all employed in administration, policing, and judiciary should be from people who are ethnically local.

And after enacting such laws, government should talk to Baloch Sardars assuring them that they would not become minority in their own land due to economical settlers, and that they would have first right over mineral resources coming from Baluchistan. I believe if that would be done than things would change in Baluchistan.

That is like someone from Arizona saying I hate people from Texas coming to the state. Yes I have to put it in terms of US states (yes you all are such ABCDS) so that people realize how freaking stupid their posts sound.

[Sa1eem]

Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!

@Doppleganger

Did you get some covert directions from altaf bhai's telefonie khitabs that you so love BLA, BRA and hate settlers now? Btw, the majority settlers aka Pashtuns have been there for 100s of years. Balochistan would see an influx of people whether you like it or not, so bagti marri etc need to learn to fit well with others.

You are wrong. I am not talking about settlers but exploiters who moved to Baluchistan for jobs or opportunities. In that sense, Pakhtuns in Baluchistan are not settlers, they are residents. As for settlers, I believe they are main cause of most Baluchistan’s trouble.

Personally, I do not hate settlers. I hate domicile, quota system, discrimination, and nepotism anywhere in Pakistan, so hating people moving within Pakistan for jobs and opportunities is wrong with me, as long as all Pakistanis are treated equally. For me, I believe in open competition and freedom of movement, as I believe I would not find any difficulty in competing.

Anyhow, that does not mean what I think best for myself, others think best for them too. I believe Baluchs are discriminated and exploited. I also think that with lack of learning facilities, Baluchs could not compete in open competition. I do not think it is justified that most CJ of Baluch high court should be non-Baloch, or that most government jobs in Baluchistan should be held by non-Balochs.

Their grievances have basis and I believe with their grievances there are many countries in world that would encourage them with money and arms to fight for independence. So, it is duty of Pakistan to stop their exploitation and clear their grievances.

[Sa1eem]

Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!

@CM

That is like someone from Arizona saying I hate people from Texas coming to the state. Yes I have to put it in terms of US states (yes you all are such ABCDS) so that people realize how freaking stupid their posts sound.

Are people who are settled in Arizona killing settlers from other part of USA and asking for independence?

Ask me when that would start happening in Arizona.

[kakaballi]

Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!

@Sa1eem

......... All present inter-provincial migration that is happening in Pakistan is for opportunity and exploitation, something that even Islam do not allow.

I think, Pakistan should enact laws that would make inter-provincial migration as difficult as possible (if not impossible). Laws should make changing domicile impossible except in exceptional circumstances and obtaining domicile needing long connections with province, like birth and education from childhood (no fake domicile). Further, all employed in administration, policing, and judiciary should be from people who are ethnically local. .......

Whoa... fantastic.

So people migrating to overseas countries from Pakistan because of more material opportunities over there are indulging in un-Islamic acts? So you mean Pakistan should make it easier for people to move to Dubai but not Quetta? BTW, do you hear local Dubai people cry because they are a minority over there now?

Instead of advocating for development in Baluchistan, you are pushing for isolation. This has to be the most ingenious plan for integrating a province into mainstream!

Whew.... I wish some day people start thinking beyond ethnicity.

[CM]

Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!

@Sa1eem

Are people who are settled in Arizona killing settlers from other part of USA and asking for independence?

Ask me when that would start happening in Arizona.

So if it does start happening in Arizona, its okay? Damn what are you smoking. Also if you are based abroad aren't you acting in an unislamic manner?

[kakaballi]

Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!

@Sa1eem

Are people who are settled in Arizona killing settlers from other part of USA and asking for independence?

No, because people from other states of the country settling in your area is not a justification for killing people and asking for independence as your post implied.

[CM]

Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!

@kakaballi

No, because people from other states of the country settling in your area is not a justification for killing people and asking for independence as your post implied.

God damn that is a virtual ***** slap.

[Sa1eem]

Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!

@CM

So if it does start happening in Arizona, its okay? Damn what are you smoking. Also if you are based abroad aren't you acting in an unislamic manner?

Well, it means situation in Arizona is not like Baluchistan, neither situation in USA is like Pakistan. That means, you are comparing carrot with banana, and that you should not do unless you like to live in illusions.

[CM]

Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!

@Sa1eem

Well, it means situation in Arizona is not like Baluchistan, neither situation in USA is like Pakistan. That means, you are comparing carrot with banana, and that you should not do unless you like to live in illusions.

Respond to Kaka first and then we shall see who is living in the land of illusions.

[Sa1eem]

Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!

@kakaballi

No, because people from other states of the country settling in your area is not a justification for killing people and asking for independence as your post implied.

Well, I am not implying, but that is what happening ... and yea, nowhere in the world people hope to make locals into minority what some people in Pakistan would like to see happening in Baluchistan.

[kakaballi]

Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!

@Sa1eem

Well, I am not implying, but that is what happening ... and yea, nowhere in the world people hope to make locals into minority what some people in Pakistan would like to see happening in Baluchistan.

Any evidence of that? I am not really convinced that millions of people from Punjab are flocking to migrate to Baluchistan.

Please take off your ethnic glasses and type.

P.S.

So, it would also be justified for Local Arabs to start killing Indians and Pakistanis settling in Dubai because they are going to take over jobs and exploit the "fruits of development" there?

[Sa1eem]

Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!

@kakaballi

Whoa... fantastic.

So people migrating to overseas countries from Pakistan because of more material opportunities over there are indulging in un-Islamic acts? So you mean Pakistan should make it easier for people to move to Dubai but not Quetta? BTW, do you hear local Dubai people cry because they are a minority over there now?

Instead of advocating for development in Baluchistan, you are pushing for isolation. This has to be the most ingenious plan for integrating a province into mainstream!

Whew.... I wish some day people start thinking beyond ethnicity.

Does it happen in Dubai that administrative, judiciary and police is dominated by outsiders and permanent residents of Dubai are unemployed? But that happens in Baluchistan.

Anyhow, Pakistan is confederation and Baluchistan has problem, that grievances with settlers, and that grievances outside world is exploiting. The solution is what I wrote, as that would erase the cause of grievances.

[ninja_hattori]

Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!

We call our selves muslims and fight for every thing other than islam............

see how libiyan tribes are fighting with each other.....

even those palestinian brothers who are punished on daily basis by israelis fight with each other....

once baluch will be developed enough why they will want to share burden of 170million poor people of

pakistan...classic example will sedition efforts of dutch speaking belgium citizens....

[Sa1eem]

Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!

@kakaballi

Any evidence of that? I am not really convinced that millions of people from Punjab are flocking to migrate to Baluchistan.

Please take off your ethnic glasses and type.

P.S.

So, it would also be justified for Local Arabs to start killing Indians and Pakistanis settling in Dubai because they are going to take over jobs and exploit the "fruits of development" there?

Don't convince me ... convince Balochs killing settlers and fighting for independence.

Anyhow, what you think if Gwader gets developed and also other parts of Baluchistan get developed. Do you think if that would happen, population of Baluchistan would stay same ~8 million?

And yea, if population of Baluchistan increase to let say ~30 million then where people would come from? Have a guess.

[kakaballi]

Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!

@Sa1eem

Does it happen in Dubai that administrative, judiciary and police is dominated by outsiders and permanent residents of Dubai are unemployed? But that happens in Baluchistan.

Anyhow, Pakistan is confederation and Baluchistan has problem, that grievances with settlers, and that grievances outside world is exploiting. The solution is what I wrote, as that would erase the cause of grievances.

The problem is not with the settlers then. It is the lack of opportunities for local people to develop human capital for growth.

My problem is the solution you proposed (restriction on migration). You are trying to fight the evil of ethnicity with the sword of ethnicity. Instead of promoting development in Baluchistan, you are proposing to send it back to stone ages with sardars dominating everything. Instead of inviting more learned people from other provinces to help Baluch develop, you are proposing to isolate the province. Instead of advocating for Punjabis, Sindhis, etc. to come set up businesses, factories, universities and hospitals in the province so that the locals have more opportunities, you are encouraging ethnic cleansing.

Your argument would have been valid if Baluchistan was already a developed area and people from other provinces were lining up to migrate there and steal jobs. Not true, I am afraid.

I suspect you are trying to emulate the experience in Karachi where MQM is justifying killing pathans in Karachi with the fear that Urdu Speaking people would become a minority if migration continues the way it has.

Who exactly is against development in Baluchistan? the Baluch or the Baluch sardars?

[Sa1eem]

Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!

^^^
I gave you a situation, that is, from what I know, out of 15 Chief justices of Baluchistan high court, more than half were from outside Baluchistan (settlers or exploiters). Further, out of 15, 5 got promoted to Supreme Court and all 5 were from Punjab, when many Baloch lawyers are struggling to make their living.

Further, all top government jobs and most other government jobs in Baluchistan are held by non-Balochs (settlers or exploiters), when Baloch graduates are unemployed.

Do you call this opportunity in Baluchistan for settlers ... or stark exploitation of Balochs?

Anyhow, my argument is based on reality and not dreams. I believe, whatever Pakistan spends in Baluchistan and whatever development would happen, as long as Balochs would not see that they are not discriminated, and would see that they are ruling Baluchistan (politically and administratively), nothing would change.

And yea, Baluchistan may not be developed but there are many Baluch graduates who are unemployed and can fill most jobs in Baluchistan without requirement of any settlers.

On the other hand, if Baluchistan do get developed with plenty of jobs, I think situation would change and people would start accepting settlers.

As for Karachi, there is no competition of Karachiets with Pakhtuns living in Karachi, rather for me, Pakhtuns in Karachi are welcome. Problem of Karachi is restriction of opportunity by government using quota and domicile. I believe if government abolish domicile, quota and interview (that is also used to discriminate), recruiting people on basis of competitive exams results, than Karachiets may grab most government jobs and places in professional institutions all over Pakistan.

[kakaballi]

Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!

^ How to improve the situation? Set up universities in Baluchistan or send all the Punjabi professors back to Punjab and never let anyone in again?

[Sa1eem]

Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!

@kakaballi

^ How to improve the situation? Set up universities in Baluchistan or send all the Punjabi professors back to Punjab and never let anyone in again?

Don't get illusion that Balochs are settler's burden (what European use to think that third world are white men burden).

It seems, you are in illusion that there are no Balochs who could teach as professors or take up educated jobs. Fact is that, it is discrimination and promotion of settlers by administration that keeps Balochs away from being university professors and holding top government jobs.