Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!
^^ No, one writes articles for the other side... they are just news... and by the way do you know what was the size of Balochistan when it joined Pakistan??? any idea????
I think the state of kalat didn't cover all of balochistan. There is talk about accession of khan of kalat, but there were other areas like lasbela and makran that were part of the state.
Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!
There were four states and rest was administrated area, Gawadar enclave was not a part of Pakistan or Balochistan at that time .
Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!
There's no denying the fact that Bla and BRA are there and they would have had international support but the way intelligence agencies have tried to counter thr threat has served to sideline even the pro Pakistani segment there. The killing of first bugti and now the kill and dump has not served any one.
Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!
There's no denying the fact that Bla and BRA are there and they would have had international support but the way intelligence agencies has tried to counter it has served to sideline even the pro Pakistani segment there. The killing of first bugti and now the kill and dump has not served any one.
This is not answer of my question or comment (incase you decided to answer it), please be precise, how agencies should tackle the informer and agents of US and other Anti-Pakistan elements??? still waiting for the answer on post 501... let me know if you do not want to answer that... because then i'll know one thing that you don't know anything about the issue and you have got no idea what the problem is and what can be realistic and what can be the idealistic solution to the problem... and neither you have interest in it... i am sorry to say all this, but there are 500 + posts in this thread mostly articles and mostly posted by you... so you should be able to answer that in black and white...
Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!
There's no denying the fact that Bla and BRA are there and they would have had international support but the way intelligence agencies have tried to counter thr threat has served to sideline even the pro Pakistani segment there. The killing of first bugti and now the kill and dump has not served any one.
For you and to make this discussion somewhat conclusive i'll repeat the same questions of post 501 below:
1) In this game, there is no right or wrong, there is and will gonna be winner or loosers, the winner will be considered right and loosers will be perceived as wrong ones... so pick you side??? who's side are you on? 1) Pakistan 2) China 3) Russia 4) US 5) India
2) please dont post the crap that you are on the side of humanity... because in that case your article search should be upon the cruelty (and i using polite words here) committed by the sardar and their family men on the common balochs..
3)can you tell me what makes common baloch's life this hard? or who make it hard on them?
having 190 posts in this thread so far, with plenty of articles posted by you saying balochs are the victim you should have been mastered the subject, and should know this issue by now ... and that is if you have read those articles before posting and not posted them blindly...
Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!
They should treat them according to law, by taking the law in their own hands there are diminshing the difference between the state and the terrorists. How come the ‘state terrorists’ like the LJ chief keeps on getting released from the prison now and then? the impact of drone attacks in sidlining Pakistanis (and increasing anti American feelings) and kill and dump (for Baloch’s) is the same.
The intelligence and security forces should behave as one not like a rag tag banana militia.
Hashmi calls for judicial activism in Balochistan case | Pakistan | DAWN.COM
**Hashmi calls for judicial activism in Balochistan case
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI) leader Javed Hashmi said on Tuesday said that security and intelligence agencies are responsible for the deteriorating situation of Balochistan, DawnNews reported.
**
**Addressing the families of the missing persons, who have set up the camps outside the parliament house, Hashmi said that societies cannot be governed through violence.
**
**“If security and intelligence agencies co operate and release the missing people, only then, this country could be saved, “PTI leader said.
**
**“Now that the human rights issue in Pakistan is being raised internationally, a judicial activism should be launched to deal with this case.” Hashmi added.
**
He also announced that PTI chief Imran Khan would visit the camps very soon.
Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!
bhai instead of doing ayaiN bayaiN shayaiN and posting what hashmi or qureshi or ik have to say on this issue… answer the questions in post 501 which are again repeated in post 506…
Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!
I have answered your question, I dont support the kill and dump policy of the military and should be evident from my posts since mid last year. Even if you keep the Baloch's aside its a bad precedent in which the agencies can abduct, kill and dump anyone in the name of national security. If they consider someone to be criminal they can try him according to law, if there are some lacunas in the law they should be removed.
Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!
Basically as far as balochistan is concerned if the government wants to win militarily there are two options available to them:
1) carry out a ruthless operation against the insurgents without taking into effect international pressure (could prove to be a suicide)
2) carry out a half hearted operation with kill and dump which is not only increasing the hatred against the army and the country but don't seem to be meeting the objectives
So what are the options available with the government now
Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!
Interesting article…](Balochistan — more than a crisis)Balochistan — more than a crisis
A radical shift in our thinking and a national resolve to see the Baloch as ‘us’ and not ‘them’, is needed urgently.
By Tariq Fatemi
Published: February 21, 2012
Recent hearings in the US House of Representatives, followed by the introduction of a bill calling for Balochistan’s right to self-determination, have set the proverbial cat among the pigeons in Islamabad!
It is not only the government that has gone into high gear, describing it as “an attack on Pakistan’s sovereignty”, but everyone else has joined the fray too. So, we have near unanimity, at least on one issue!
This hearing and the ‘self-determination’ bill were the initiative of Congressman Dana Rohrabacher of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, long known as having rather skewed views about Pakistan. The invitees to the hearing, in particular Colonel Ralph Peters, who has long advocated the break-up of Pakistan, was also indicative of the Congressman’s thinking.
Nevertheless, the State Department characterising it “a complex issue” and calling upon “all the parties to resolve their differences through peaceful dialogue”, cannot be seen as a ringing endorsement of our position, which left the impression that while not endorsing Rohrabacher’s initiative, the administration may not be unhappy with it either. Understandably, given the current state of Pak-US relations, anything that could add to American leverage and enhance our worries would not be unwelcome to the administration.
Moreover, human rights issues have long been a favourite US tool, used effectively even against powerful states, including China. Lest we forget it, the issue of human rights, popularly known as Responsibility to protect, has become a litmus test of a state’s credentials. Consequently, there is near universal unanimity against shielding human rights violations on the plea of ‘interference in internal affairs’.
**Be that as it may, there can be no excuse for the long, wilful neglect of Balochistan and the brutal tactics employed there against expressions of dissent. These have convinced the Baloch youth that they have no future in the Federation. But credit for the intensity of their anger and outrage against Pakistan should go to General Pervez Musharraf, who treated them with contempt, coupled with ruthlessness that would have done Saddam proud. The public celebration of Sardar Akbar Bugti’s killing was deeply disgusting to most Pakistanis, but more so to the Baloch, who felt humiliated at the treatment meted out to the venerable Sardar. Ever since, the situation has deteriorated to a point where some of the Baloch are convinced that the only option available to them may be armed insurrection. Is there any surprise that this should have encouraged some of our American ‘friends’ to suggest the province’s separation?
Given its strategic location and its huge proven resources, Balochistan has long attracted the interest of major powers. In the seventies and eighties, Moscow spent a lot of time and resources cultivating the Baloch. Today, if others are interested in taking advantage of our follies, we can only blame ourselves. After all, there is undeniable wisdom in the adage that ‘those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it’ and this is most true of today’s Pakistan. Admittedly, many factors contributed to the country’s break-up in 1971, and we can hold some foreign powers complicit in it, too, but the primary responsibility has to be ours, particularly the politicians, as well as civil and military officials. In fact, each one of us had a role in the enactment of this tragedy.
**It is not enough for us to claim that our common faith is enough of a glue to keep us together. Modern states have to be based on shared burdens and shared benefits, in an environment of adherence to law, respect for rights irrespective of caste, creed or ethnic origin, and a commitment to good governance. In short, every citizen must have a stake in the future of the state. The time for apologies and political ‘packages’ has long passed. **A radical shift in our thinking and a national resolve to see the Baloch as ‘us’ and not ‘them’, is needed urgently.
**
Published in The Express Tribune, February 22[SUP]nd[/SUP], 2012.
Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!
For the past few days I am wondering where Jamali and Abdul Hayee Baloch are these days?
Making Jamali the prime minister in Musharraf's time was a good decision, and his removal proved to be a disaster.
Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!
I have answered your question, I dont support the kill and dump policy of the military and should be evident from my posts since mid last year. Even if you keep the Baloch's aside its a bad precedent in which the agencies can abduct, kill and dump anyone in the name of national security. If they consider someone to be criminal they can try him according to law, if there are some lacunas in the law they should be removed.
when did that happened??? in this thread? or somewhere else??
here are my questions again
1) In this game, there is no right or wrong, there is and will gonna be winner or loosers, the winner will be considered right and loosers will be perceived as wrong ones... so pick you side??? who's side are you on? 1) Pakistan 2) China 3) Russia 4) US 5) India
2) please dont post the crap that you are on the side of humanity... because in that case your article search should be upon the cruelty (and i using polite words here) committed by the sardar and their family men on the common balochs
3)can you tell me what makes common baloch's life this hard? or who make it hard on them?
you answered which one and where??? i know you can't answer any of above... long before snowy winter said it rightly...
Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!
when did that happened??? in this thread? or somewhere else??
here are my questions again
1) In this game, there is no right or wrong, there is and will gonna be winner or loosers, the winner will be considered right and loosers will be perceived as wrong ones... so pick you side??? who's side are you on? 1) Pakistan 2) China 3) Russia 4) US 5) India
I will always be with Pakistan, but I dont see them winning the war the way they have been handling the issue. None of us has learnt anything from 1971 sadly!
[QUOTE]
2) please dont post the crap that you are on the side of humanity... because in that case your article search should be upon the cruelty (and i using polite words here) committed by the sardar and their family men on the common balochs
[/QUOTE]
The sardars are not only present in Balochistan, they are in Sindh and Punjab as well. Do you think that by the way 'Pakistan' is freeing the Baloch from the sardars they should love us? Whats the difference in us freeing them from their cruel sardars and the Americans bringing democracy to the world?
[QUOTE]
3)can you tell me what makes common baloch's life this hard? or who make it hard on them?
[/QUOTE]
You tell me!
[QUOTE]
you answered which one and where??? i know you can't answer any of above... long before snowy winter said it rightly...
[/QUOTE]
Sorry I dont need any certification regarding my patriotism...
Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!
**Balochistan issue shows what dictatorships do to a nation. In 1999, all Balochi leaders were playing role in mainstream politics. I was interacting with Balochi leadership as Deputy Chairman Planning Commission over development projects and found them to be very patriotic. Zardari regime has wasted four years and not done anything concrete. We need to put our house in order. If there is order, no one can take advantage. PMLN is committed to advocating the case of Balochistan and redress their grievances. Government should take concrete steps instead of making statements, No Action Talk Only (NATO) policy
**http://dunyanews.tv/index.php?key=Q2F0SUQ9MiNOaWQ9NjY4ODQ=
Nawaz conditions APC participation to missing persons’ recovery
**PML-N chief Mian Nawaz Sharif has connected participation in the All Parties Conference with trial of Nawab Akbar Bugti’ assassins and concrete steps for recovery of missing persons.
Talking to Lahore Bureau Chief of Dunya News Salman Ghani, before leaving for Umrah, Nawaz Sharif said that asking apology was not the solution of the Balochistan problem rather these problems would be taken seriously.
I had already conveyed to the Prime Minister that instead of announcing package for Baloch people, their grievances would have to be addressed, Nawaz asserted.
**
To a question, he said that US resolution had deteriorated the relations instead of mending it. Balochistan is part of Pakistan and every Pakistani is anxious about it, Nawaz said. Before talking about foreign hand we will have to review our policies, he suggested.
Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!
Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
A Few Words: The missing Baloch —Dr Qaisar Rashid
**
The good news for Pakistan is that Pakistanis are waking up to the injustices meted out to the Baloch. The media, somehow, has also sprung into action to discuss the Balochistan issue. The case of 11 missing persons taken up by the Supreme Court has sent a ray of hope for the recovery of the missing Baloch.**
**Conversely, the bad news for Pakistan is that the world is also waking up to the human rights violations happening in Balochistan — whether committed by state or non-state actors. The US Congress is resounding with the word Balochistan in various contexts and consequently flinging all types of anxieties at Islamabad. **The US Congress Committee on Foreign Affairs raised the Balochistan issue and lately a resolution has been presented in the US House of Representatives to that effect.
If not odium, civilians’ distrust of the military is the trait found common between the memo (that jolted Pakistan’s national security) and the resolution (that shook Pakistan’s national integrity). Fear is the central theme in both cases: Pakistani civilians are fearful of the Pakistan Army and its allied intelligence agencies. For instance, whatever the IG FC Balochistan demands, can the chief minister of Balochistan refuse it is the touchstone on which it can be determined who is in the driving seat in Balochistan, though the former is theoretically subordinate to the latter. Why do the citizens of Pakistan tend to knock at the US door for their safety and survival is the next best question.
If a Baloch is picked up by the intelligence agencies (including the intelligence wing of the FC Balochistan), and does not turn up for years, what should his relatives do? What should they do when they find the mutilated dead body of the abductee? What should they do when the law does not come to their help? What should they do when they protest in front of Quetta and Karachi press clubs but no one listens to them or even sits with them — for fear of going ‘missing’ resultantly? Should they keep mum just because their fate is intertwined with the destiny of Pakistan?
**Pakistan is a federation, federation, federation — say it out loud 10 times. Pakistan is not a unitary state where the Centre can enforce its will on the constituent units through any means, including the military. Pakistan is not a Mughal Empire where citizens can be made subjects. Pakistan is not a homogeneous nation-state where ethnic identities lose value. Pakistan is not passing through the medieval ages when the voice of dissent could be muffled. Pakistan’s citizens are not marooned on a desert island from where no one can escape.
**
According to one school of thought, the sequence of events indicates that Pakistan is imploding under its own weight (of mistakes of the past from which Pakistanis are not ready to learn); however, according to another school of thought, these events signify that Pakistan is coming of age. The second school of thought also opines that Pakistan is entering an era where the state is not just levying taxes of this or that type, the state is also supposed to be answerable to its citizens for explaining to their satisfaction what safeguards it has mounted to affirm their rights. How come the salaried class — whether the bureaucracy or the military — can decide the fate of citizens? How can the military or the intelligence agencies appraise the fidelity of a citizen to the country — without undertaking due legal process?
**The post-2001 era is marked with violence taking (once again) root in society. Violence has surfaced in four major forms: suicide bombings, missing persons (and their fate), mob justice, and persecution of the minorities. The quad of conflict is functional and undermining the foundations of the country. In fact, both the citizens and the security forces’ personnel are engaged in brutal acts to meet their (assigned or self-proclaimed) objectives. In all these atrocious acts, one factor is common and that is self-righteousness: I am a better judge of the situation and it is enjoined upon me to dispense justice in my classification. Owing to raging violence, it is not astonishing if society has become tolerant of brutality.
**
The missing persons issue is essentially a post-2001 phenomenon in Pakistan. Perceivably, the war on terror has given enough excuse to Pakistan’s intelligence agencies to extend their sway beyond the constitutionally defined boundaries. In fact, the war has rendered irrelevant the human rights clauses enshrined in Pakistan’s constitution. The US spy agencies showed the way how to hoodwink the law, construct the Guantanamo Bay detention camp, undertake rendition flights, and make satellite prisons such as the one at the Bagram Airbase, Afghanistan. Certainly, Pakistanis are quick to learn and are excellent followers too. The skill to violate human rights — with impunity — has trickled down. Expectedly, in Pakistan, mini-Guantanamo Bays, rendition networks and satellite prisons (or dungeons) must exist.
**The PML-N was the first political party to issue a call for an All-Parties Conference (APC) on Balochistan in January this year but it failed to give a specific date. If the PML-N had convened the APC following its announcement, the US Congress would have been left with little justification for raising the issue of Balochistan. The prerequisite for appeasing the Baloch is to set the missing Baloch free — immediately — unharmed.
In Balochistan, the nationalist parties boycotted the general elections of 2008. That is how the Balochistan Assembly is short of being declared truly representative. Making the election commission independent through the 20th Amendment is a good omen and entails far-reaching effects. In the next general elections, the Baloch nationalist parties will be able to take part and make the Balochistan Assembly as representative as possible.
The judiciary is reclaiming its ground and acting as an agent of change, and the citizens are standing by the judiciary. The media needs to shed its inhibitions, whatever these are, and pave the way for the recovery of the missing Baloch.
**
The writer is a freelance columnist. He can be reached at [email protected]
Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!
I will always be with Pakistan, but I dont see them winning the war the way they have been handling the issue. None of us has learnt anything from 1971 sadly!
strange enough the theme of your article suggest otherwise, you seem to dig every article no matter how wrong it is or how old it is and find it your duty to post it here as long as if defy Pakistani interest or makes Pakistan look like a monster here...
The sardars are not only present in Balochistan, they are in Sindh and Punjab as well. Do you think that by the way 'Pakistan' is freeing the Baloch from the sardars they should love us? Whats the difference in us freeing them from their cruel sardars and the Americans bringing democracy to the world?
The wader shahi of Sindhi, Punjabi Pakhtoon sardars ( if you call them sardar) is 100 time better than what we have got in Balochistan... you seem to have no idea about it, or may be you belong to one of the sardar family of Balochistan
You tell me!
so you have got no idea about it?? please say yes or no, if you have got no idea about it, then how you are doing all these postings??? blindly, and tell me one more thing, how many minutes does it take to read an article you have posted here... this i asked because want to know if you read before posting or you just copy paste blindly?
Sorry I dont need any certification regarding my patriotism...
you got that right... your posts in this thread is enough to tell the story...
Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!
The missing persons issue is essentially a post-2001 phenomenon in Pakistan.**
**
and who was the PM then??? and K later, there are lots of missing person from Punjab and KPK also, have you missed their protest lately.. Dr. Afia who went missing along with her children for some 4/5 years is from Karachi... the whole country is in shyt stop making it look like a plight of certain ethnicity...
Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!
and who was the PM then??? and K later, there are lots of missing person from Punjab and KPK also, have you missed their protest lately.. Dr. Afia who went missing along with her children for some 4/5 years is from Karachi... the whole country is in shyt stop making it look like a plight of certain ethnicity...
agree with that part......
its always portrayed as if the ''punjabi people'' are killing , looting, usurping rights of others.........whereas.......... if you see, there are no 'dooodh ki nehrain' in punjab either......
people are picked up in the same way from here, as from others........and its NOT 'punjab' vs 'baloch'.........
the 3 missing brothers, 2 of which were taken to court.... were picked up from lahore......
the military and agencies don't have an ethnicity........ for them everything comes down to a military person vs a non-military person............ they always back their own 'regardless of ethnicity' and will violate anyone be it a baloch, punjabi, pathan or urdu.............
Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!
hum aah bhi kartay hain tou ho jaatay hain badnaam
woh qatl bhi kartay hain tou charcha nahin hota
Balochistan APC: PML-N asks govt to jump through hoops – The Express Tribune
Nawaz Sharif unveils two demands for moot participation— arrest Bugti’s killers and safely recover all missing persons
By Abdul Manan
Published: February 23, 2012
**LAHORE: ****The government’s efforts to arrange a national huddle on Balochistan are fast-failing.
**
**Pakistan Muslim League-Nawaz (PML-N) has rolled out two “non-negotiable” conditions for ensuring his party’s participation in an All Parties Conference (APC) on Balochistan – and near-impossible ones at that.
**
**One: Arrest Nawab Akbar Bugti’s killers. Two: Recover all missing persons.
**
Called by the government following a blowout of violence in Balochistan and the raising of the issue in Washington, the APC already faces an uncertain future given widespread apprehensions and limited chances of participation by disgruntled Baloch leaders. In fact, the prime minister on Tuesday constituted a 13-member committee to contact the country’s political leadership in efforts to ensure participation.
Given that the idea was effectively theirs to begin with, the PML-N is ready to participate – but has increased the stakes.
Nawaz Sharif made the demand before leaving for Saudi Arabia to perform Umrah.
**According to a party statement: “The APC would be useless, unless Bugti’s killers are arrested and the Baloch missing persons are recovered”.
“Our party will participate in the conference if the government solves these two issues,” Sharif asserted.
**
**According to well-placed sources within the party, Leader of the Opposition Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan, along with other senior leaders of the party, held a meeting with Sharif in which they decided to not participate in the moot, and decided rather to highlight Baloch grievances vociferously inside and outside Parliament themselves.
**
Setting precedence for an evolving party manifesto before the new general elections, the PML-N, on one hand, moved a resolution in National Assembly condemning the US congressional resolution; and on the other, Sharif himself joined the camp of missing persons located in Islamabad and demanded their safe recovery.
**According to a party think-tank, a PML-N senior leader hailing from Balochistan understands that the APC on Balochistan will be “waste of time and useless since both the plaintiffs (the separatists) and the defendants (the Pakistan Army) would be absent from such a gathering”.
A few members of the party think-tank said that PML-N’s leadership is convinced that the only feasible solution of the Balochistan issue will be to engage with the “people who are on the mountains” and outside the country.
****Meanwhile, prominent Baloch leaders including Shahzain Bugti, Hasil Bizenjo, Akhtar Mengal and others have already refused to participate in the APC saying that time for such conferences had lapsed.
**
**A well-placed PML-N office bearer in the centre told The Express Tribune that his party had not paid much heed to such issues in the past but now, for the first time, PML-N’s leadership has decided to support the stance of the Baloch leaders.
**
He added that the decision of boycotting the APC is hinting towards changing party paradigms.
**PML-N’s senior leader from Balochsitan MNA Sardar Yaqoob Khan Nasir while talking to The Express Tribune said that the two demands put forward by Sharif were in fact genuine demands of the Baloch nation.
**
Published in The Express Tribune, February 23[SUP]rd[/SUP], 2012.
Re: Balochistan crisis & its resolution!
The crux of what pmln is now saying:
1) arrest Akbar bugti's killers
2) release all missing persons (terrorists as per the military?)
3) talk to the baloch separatists in the mountains and abroad
4) listen to what baloch leaders are saying about the problem