Background Information on Shia'ism (its a "ism")

All of the references here are from shia hadith books and other religious books of shiaism. Please make sure you know and have read these books, before you call it wrong or disrespect me.

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(01) What does the word “Shi’a” mean?

“Shie’ah”, “Shi’a”: a singular Arabic noun means group, party, sect, supporter. The plural form is Shiya’ and Ashyaa’. There is another word in Arabic that denotes the same meaning, i.e Hizb, its plural is Ahzaab. Both terms were used in the Holy Qur’an:

19:69 Then shall We certainly drag out from every sect (Shi’a) all those who were worst in obstinate rebellion against (Allah) Most Gracious.

28:15 And he entered the city at a time when its people were not watching: and he found there two men fighting,- one of his own religion (Shie’atihi), and the other, of his foes. Now the man of his own religion (Shie’atihi) appealed to him against his foe, and Moses struck him with his fist and made an end of him. He said: “This is a work of Evil (Satan): for he is an enemy that manifestly misleads!”

37:83 Verily among those who followed his Way (Shie’atihi) was Abraham.

15:10 We did send apostles before thee amongst the religious sects (Shiya’) of old:

6:65 Say: “He hath power to send calamities on you, from above and below, or to cover you with confusion in party strife (Shiya’an), giving you a taste of mutual vengeance - each from the other.” See how We explain the signs by various (symbols); that they may understand.

6:159 As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects (Shiya’an), thou hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah. He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.

28:4 Truly Pharaoh elated himself in the land and broke up its people into sections (Shiya’an), depressing a small group among them: their sons he slew, but he kept alive their females: for he was indeed a maker of mischief.

30:32 Those who split up their Religion, and become (mere) Sects (Shiya’an),- each party (Hizben) rejoicing in that which is with itself!

During the conflict between Ali [ra] and Muawiyah [ra], both groups were referred to as “Shi’atu Ali” and “Shi’atu Muawiyah”. Hence, its early usage in the conflict between the two great companions Ali & Muawiyah [ra-both] was to denote who “sided” with who in its political context.

(02) Was the dispute between Ali and Muawiyah religious in nature?

Absolutely not. The conflict started after the murder of the 3rd Caliph Othman bin 'Affan [ra], and the existence of the murderers in the camp of Ali [ra]. However; to answer this question, we’ll explore Nahjul Balaghah to see what Ali [ra] himself had to say about it, contrary to what the Shi’a wish to present:

“The thing began in this way: We and the Syrians were facing each other while we had common faith in one Allah, in the same Prophet (s) and on the same principles and canons of religion. So far as faith in Allah and the Holy Prophet (s) was concerned we never wanted them (the Syrians) to believe in anything over and above or other than what they were believing in and they did not want us to change our faith. Both of us were united on these principles. The point of contention between us was the question of the murder of Uthman. It had created the split. They wanted to lay the murder at my door while I am actually innocent of it.”
Nahjul Balaghah, Letter 58, p. 474 http://www.alislam.org/nahjul/letters/letter58.htm#letter58

Therefore, if Ali [ra] himself does not see the conflict religious nor his political opponents as Kafirs (unbelievers) then the love which Shi’ites claim to have for him and the claim that they follow him, is an unproven claim from their own sources. For if they do indeed love Ali [ra] they will hold his views in this matter too, but they are people of no understanding. Furthermore, Ali [ra] instructed his men as follows:

"I dislike you starting to abuse them, but if you describe their deeds and recount their situations that would be a better mode of speaking and a more convincing way of arguing. Instead of abusing them you should say, “O’ Allah! save our blood and their blood, produce reconciliation between us and them, and lead them out of their misguidance so that he who is ignorant of the truth may know it, and he who inclines towards rebellion and revolt may turn away from it.”
Nahjul-Balaghah: Sermon 204, or online Sermon 205 (http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/205.htm)
Are the Shi’ites in anyway, form or manner following his instructions? Most certainly not. All we hear from them is slandering and cursing to the best men honored and chosen by Allah [swt] to be the companions of His Apostle [saw]

(03) Did the word “Shi’ites” exist during the era of Muhammad [saw]?

Anyone who claims that the word “Shi’a” or “Shi’ites” was used by the Apostle of Allah or during his era is a liar, and no proof whatsoever exists to support this claim. To illustrate as a proof, the Shi’ites themselves never agreed on when Shi’asm actually started. In his book “Asl al-Shi’a wa Usooliha” p. 87, Grand Rabbi Aal Kaashif-al-Ghataa’ wrote:

“The first (person) who planted the seed of Shi’asm in the field of Islam, is no other than the Prophet himself. In other words, the seed of Shi’asm was placed side by side with the seed of Islam coequally. Its planter (the Prophet [saw]) continued to care for it by irrigating it until it grew and prospered during his life time, then bore fruits after his death”

This is an absolute false statement, which he supported by a false Hadith (Hadith of the Bird) to which he falsely claimed exists in Sahih al-Bukhari and Muslims, or the Hadith “Verily it is Ali and his Shi’ites who are the winners” as most of Shi’ites writers do, to give the reader the impression that they are supporting their falsehood with authentic narrations from our Sihaah.
It is no wonder then, that Ibn Abil-Hadeed (586-656 h), an extremist Shi’a, admitingly writes in his Commentary on Nahjul-Balaghah:

" The origin of lies in Ahadith of virtues, started with the Shi’ites who fabricated various Ahadith in the virtues of their Imams. It was the enmity they held against their adversaries that drove them to fabricate them"
See Sharh Nahujul-Balaghah, vol.1, p.783 (Quoting from al-Shi’a wat-Tashayyu’, p.19)
(04) So when did Shi’ism evolve as a political party?

Actually, neither the Shi’ites’ historians nor the Shi’ites’ Rabbis have a consensus on the evolution of Shi’ism. In his “Firaq al-Shi’a” (The Shi’a Groups) Abu Muhammad al-Hasan bin Musa al-Nubakhti, one of the foremost known Shi’i historian, believes that Shi’ism did not start until the demise of the Apostle [saw]:

" The Messenger [sawa] died in the month of Rabi’ al-Awwal, in the year 10 of Hijra at age 63 and the duration of his prophethood was for 23 years, and his mother is Aaminah bint Wahab bin Abdi Manaaf bin Zuhra bin Kilaab bin Murra bin Ka’b bin Lu’ay bin Ghaalib. (At his death) The Ummah was divided into three groups. One group was called the Shi’ites, who were the Shi’ites of Ali bin Abi Taleb [as] and from them all Shi’i sects broke away. Another (group) claimed the right of succession, i.e., al-Ansaar, who called for the inauguration of Sa’d bin Ubadah al-Khazraji. A (Third) group tilted toward giving the Bay’ah (allegiance) to Abu Bakr bin Abi Qahaafah, with an excuse that the Messenger [sawa] did not name a particular successor rather left it for the Ummah to chose whom it wills…"
Firaq al-Shi’a: pp. 23-24
Muhammad Hussain al-Muzaffari thinks it was started by the Prophet [saw] himself, he thus wrote in his Tareekh al-Shi’a (History of the Shi’ites):

“The call for Shi’asm started with the day when Grand Savior Muhammad [sawa] shouted the word La Ilaha illallah in Makka’s sections and mountains…and hence, the call to become a Shi’ite for Abu al-Hasan [as] (Ali) by the Prophet [sawa] went side by side with the call for the two testimonies”
Tareekh al-Shi’a: Muhammad Husain al-Muzaffari, pp. 8-9, Qum, Iran.
Abu Ishaaq Ibn al-Nadim, (297-385 h), a famous Shi’i writer, did not agree to neither of the above theories, he wrote in his “al-Fihrist” that Shi’ism started at the Battle of Camel, thus explained:

“When Talha and Az-Zubair disagreed with Ali and accepted noless than the revenge for the blood of Othman, and Ali mobolized his forces to fight them, those who followed him were then given the title, Shi’ites.”
al-Fihrist, Ibn al-Nadim: p.249, from Ash-Shi’a wat-Tashayyu’: Ehsan Elahi Zaheer, p.25
Kamil Mustafa al-Shaybi, a Shi’a, wrote in his book:

" The independence of the term indicating Shi’asm came about only after the murder of al-Husain whereby Shi’ism became an independent entity with a distinctive identity"
The Link Between Sufism & Shi’asm: Mustafa Kamil al-Shaybi, p.23, From Ash-Shi’a wat-Tashayyu’, Ehsan Elahi Zaheer, p.26
It is obvious from their own disputes over the birth of Shi’ism, that the attempts to make Shi’itization (call to disunity) the original message of the Prophet [saw] is a failure and can only fool the naives who go after every drum beater.

**(05) If Muhammad [saw] did not start Shi’ism as some of them claim, who then started it?

Simply, when the Jews were convinced they are unable to halt the fast growing and spreading of Christianity by means of force, they planed to destroy it from within. This mission was successfully carried out by Rabbi Paul. When Islam came, likewise, the Jews again attempted to abort this new religion. Their endeavors took many forms and shapes, from attempts to assassinate the Apostle of Allah [saw] to waging wars that ended in deporting most of them from al-Madinah or executing those who betrayed the truce. Similarly, they were convinced that the best way to destroy Islam and the Muslims’ unity was to resort to the plot they used with Christianity. A Yemenite Jew by the name of Abdullah bin Saba’ , as Paul did, pretended to have embraced Islam to plant secretly the seeds of this new cult which he successfully performed. He arrived from Yemen to al-Madinah during the era of Zunnurain Caliph Othman bin 'Affaan [ra] and started to plan and cook the plot, waiting for the proper opportunity which he found in Ali [ra].

(06) Recently, some Shi’ites began to claim that “Abdullah bin Saba’” is a myth and an imaginative personality who never existed in history, how true?

It is natural for them to be ashamed of this fact, but our question to them is, why they kept silent for 14 centuries and not a single scholar of them disputed this fact throughout this period? Furthermore, what do they say about the giant scholars of theirs who confirmed the existance of this Jew, and what do they say about their “Infallible” Imams who likewise confirmed his existence? Certainly, if Ibn Saba’ was a myth, then this is a blow to their credibility and “Infallibity” and the entire footings of Shi’ism has thereby collapsed.
Nevertheless, we’ll prove our point, not by using Sunni or Orientalists sources, but will call to the witness stand their very own historians and whom they call deputies of Allah on earth, the “Infallible” Imams:

First: Abu Muhammad al-Hasan bin Musa al-Nubakhti:
The well known Shi’ite “Who’s Who” critic, al-Najashi in his al-Fihrist, wrote:

“al-Hasan bin Musa: Abu Muhammad al-Nubakhti, the well versed in dialectism, who surpassed the peers of his time prior and after the 300 (hijra)”
al-Fihrist: al-Najashi, p.47; From Ash-Shi’a was-Sunnah, p.22

Another “Who’s Who” critic, At-Tusi, in his al-Fihrist wrote:

“Abu Muhammad, dialectist and philosopher, was an Imami (shi’ite), an upright in faith, trustworthy (thiqah)…and he is one of the scholars’ landmarks”
al-Fihrist: At-Tusi, p.98; From Ash-Shi’a Was-Sunnah, p.22
Nurallah at-Tasturi, in his “Majaalis al-Mu’mineen” wrote:

“al-Hasan bin Musa, one of the celebrity of this sect and its scholars. He was a dialectist, a philosopher, an Imami in faith”
Majaalis al-Mu’mineen: Nurallah At-Tasturi, p.177; from Ash-Shi’a was-Sunnah, p.22
Having established the authority of this historian from the Shi’ites own sources, let’s read what Mr. al-Nubakhti had to say about Ibn Saba’:

"Abdullah bin Saba’, was one of those who slandered Abu Bakr, Omar, Othman and the Companions and disowned them. He claimed that it was Ali [as] who enjoined this on him. Ali arrested him, and upon interrogation, admitted to the charge, and (Ali) ordered him to be executed. The People cried ‘O Chief of Believers ! Do you execute a man calling to your love, Ahlul-Bayt, to your allegiance, and disowning your enemies?’ He (Ali) then exiled him to al-Mada’in (Capital of Iran back then). Some of the knowledgeable companions of Ali [as] narrated that Abdullah bin Saba’ was a Jew who embraced Islam and sided with Ali [as]. That he was of the opinion, at the time when he was a Jew, claiming that Yousha’ bin Noon is after Moses. After his submission to Islam, after the demise of the Prophet [pbuh&hf], he claimed the same for Ali [as]. He was the first to publicly mandate the Imamah of Ali [as], disowning his enemies, and debated his opposers. From thence, those who oppose Shi’ism say: The origin of Shi’ism is rooted in Judaism. When Abdullah bin Saba’ heard of the demise of Ali while in (his exile at) al-Mada’in, he said to the announcer of the news: ‘You are a liar, if you are to bring his head in seventy bags, and brought seventy witnesses testifying to his death, we’ll insist that he did not die nor murdered, and (he) shall not die till he rules the globe’ ".
Firaq al-Shi’a: Nubakhti, pp. 43,44
Second: Abu Amr bin Abdul Aziz al-Kash-shi: Another well known “Who’s Who” critic who also mentioned Ibn Saba’, and one of the earliest Shi’ite biographist. In the “Introduction” to his book, known as “Rijaal al-Kash-shi”, we read:

“He is trustworthy (thiqah), an adept, an expert in traditions and men, very knowledgeable, well founded in faith, on the upright path…The most important books on biographies of men are four, which are heavily depended on and (considered) the four basic pillars in this field, the most important and earliest of all is: Ma’rifat al-Naqileen anil-A’immah As-Sadiqeen (Knowing the Transmittors on The Authority of The Truthful Imams) known as Rijaal al-Kash-shi”.
Rijaal al-Kash-shi: al-Najaashi, Introduction.
Having established the authority of this scholar, let’s examine what he has to say about the Jew Ibn Saba’:

“Some people of knowledge mentioned that Abdullah bin Saba’ was a Jew, who embraced Islam and supported Ali. While he was still a Jew, he used to go to extremism in calling Yousha’ bin Noon as the appointee (successor) of Moses, thus after embracing Islam - after the demise of the Messenger of Allah [pbuh&hf] - he said the like about Ali. It was him who first publicly announced the mandatory Iamamah for Ali, rejected and disowned his enemies, debated his opponents and called them Kafirs. Hence, those who oppose the Shi’ites often say: The Shi’ites and Rejectors (Rafidah) have their roots in Judaism”
Rijaal al-Kash-shi: Abu ‘Amr bin Abdul Aziz al-Kash-shi, p.101 al-Mamaqaani, author of “Tanqeeh al-Maqaal”, who is an authoritative Shi’i biogrophist quoted the like in his said book, p.184
Now, if these Shi’ites authorities lied about the identity of Ibn Saba’, then the possibility of them lying about other matters, like the events of Siffien, the murder of al-Hussain [ra] and other Shi’i dogmas, stands greater. Consequently, if this is the case, doubt will overshadow any and all events and narrations recorded by them.
**
But assuming that the foresaid men are liars, and error infiltrated to their books, and therefore their testimony is not a proof (hujjah) nor binding, then we invite you to examine the testimony of those who are “Infallible” and looked at as “Deputies of Allah” whose sayings are equal to Allah’s as the Shi’ites claim:

  1. “Narrated to me Muhammad bin Qolawaih: Narrated to me Sa’d bin Abdullah, said: Narrated to us Yaqoub bin Yazeed and Muhammad bin Issa from Ali bin Mahziyar, from Fadalah bin Ayoub al-Azdi, from Abban bin Othman said: I heard Abu Abdullah [as] saying:
    ‘May Allah curse Abdallah bin Saba’, he claimed a divineship for Amirul-Mu’mineen (Ali) [as]. By Allah, Amierul-Mu’mineen [as] was volunterily the slave of Allah. Woe to him who lie about us, for there are people who say about us what we don’t say about ourselves,we clear ourselves to Allah from them, we clear ourselves to Allah from them’.”

  2. “Narrated Yaqoub bin Yazeed from Ibn Abi Omair and Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Issa, from his father and al-Husain bin Sa’eed, from Hisham bin Salim, from Abu Hamza al-Thumali said: Ali bin al-Husain [as] said:
    ‘May the curse of Allah be upon those who tell lies about us. I mentioned Abdullah Ibn Saba and each hair in my body stood up, Allah cursed him. Ali (AS) was, by Allah, a proper servant of Allah, the brother of the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF). He did not earn the graciousness/honor from Allah except with the obedience to Allah and His Messenger. And (similarly) the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) did not earn the honor from Allah except with his obedience to Allah’.”

  3. Narrated Muhammad bin Khalid At-Tayalisi, from Ibn Abi Najran, from Abdullah bin Sinaan said: Abu Abdullah [as] said:
    “We are a family of truthfulness. But we are not safe from a liar telling lies about us to undermine our truth with his lies in front of people. The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) was the most truthful among people in what he said (Lahjatan) and the most truthful among all humanity; and Musaylima used to lie on him. The Commander of Believers (AS) was the most truthful one among the creation of Allah after the Messenger of Allah; and the one who used to lie on him, and tried to undermine his truthfulness and claimed lies about Allah, was Abdullah Ibn Saba.” .

Ibid, pp. 100,101
Need further Shi’ites sources? We’ll call to testimony al-Hasan bin Ali al-Hilly, another famous Shi’i biographist, and examine what he had to say about the Jew Ibn Saba’:

“Abdullah bin Saba’ returned to disbelief and showed extremism. He claimed prophethood, and that Ali [as] was Allah (in the flesh). Ali [as], for three (consecutive) days asked him to repent but he failed, thereupon, he [as] burned him (alive) with seventy other men who attributed divinship to him”
Kitaab al-Rijaal: al-Hilly, p.469, printed in Tehran, Iran 1383 h. From Ash-Shi’a wat-Tashayyu’, p.56
We’ll further call another witness for the stand, the Shi’i biogrophist, al-Astra Abadi, and examine his tesitmony:

“Abdullah bin Saba’ claimed prophethood and that Ali [as] is himself Allah the Most Exalted. Upon hearing this charge, Amirul-Mu’mineen called and inquired it from him. When he admitted, he said to him: back off from this say and repent, may your mother lose you. However;(Ibn Saba’) refused, and (Ali) held him for three days, and, still refusing to repent, he therefore burned him(alive)”
Manhaj al-Maqaal: al-Astar Abadi, p.203, from: Ash-Ashia wat-Tashayyu’, p.56
We have another witness, which we like to take his statement, a Persian historian, in his “Tareekh Shi’i” confirmed and wrote:

“When Abdullah bin Saba’ learned that the opposition to Othman in Egypt was greater, he went there and pretended the knowledge and righteouseness until the people trusted him. After he established himself there, he started to propagate his ideas and theory, that for each Prophet was an appointed successor, and the appointee (wasi) of the Apostle of Allah and his successor is no other than Ali, who is blessed with knowledge and Fatwa, ornamented with generousity and courage, and known for his honesty and righteouseness. He further said: The Ummah has wronged Ali, usurped his right, the right of Khilafah (succession) and Walayah (allegiance). It is encumbant upon you all to aid and support him. He (immediately) revoked his obedience and allegiance to Othman, and touched many Egyptians with his sayings and deeds, and they revolted against Othman”
Tareekh Shi’i: Rawdat As-Safa, vol.2, p.292, Tehran Ed., From: Ashi’a wat-Tashayyu’ , p.56
And there are hundreds of other books who affirmed and confirmed, that Shi’ism started with this Jewish Yemenite who pretended “Love of Ahlul-Bayt” and sought justice for them, as a plot to crack the unity of the Muslim Ummah who crushed the Jewish tribes in the Arabic Penensula. It is not amazing therefore, that the alliance between the Jews and the Persian Majoos (Zoroastrians) prosper to revenge from those who destroyed their dreams and humiliated a civilization not long ago, was one of two super powers in the world. This is briefly why Shi’ism prospered mainly in the land of the Fire worshippers, Persia.

Shi’ites Imams ]

(07) Who are the 12 Imams that the Shi’a believe in?

No. Kunyah, Name, Laqab, Years
01- Abu al-Hasan Ali bin Abi Taleb al-Murtada 10 bh- 40 ah

02- Abu Muhammad al-Hassan bin Ali AzZaky 03-050 h

03- Abu Abdallah al-Hussain bin Ali Sayyid al-Shuhada 04-061 h

04- Abu Muhammad Ali bin al-Hussain Zainul-'Abideen 38-095 h

05- Abu Ja’far Muhammad bin Ali al-Baqir 57-114 h

06- Abu Abdallah Ja’far bin Muhammad al-Sadiq 83-148 h

07- Abu Ibrahim Musa bin Ja’far al-Kadhim 128-183 h

08- Abu al-Hasan Ali bin Musa al-Rida 148-202/3 h

09- Abu Ja’far Muhammad bin Ali al-Jawaad 195-220 h

10- Abu al-Hasan Ali bin Muhammad al-Hadi 212-254 h

11- Abu Muhammad al-Hasan bin Ali al-Askari 232-260 h

12- Abu al-Qasim Muhammad bin al-Hasan al-Mahdi 256-to-end of time !!!


You have just read the material written in shia books of hadith. All the discomfort that my shia friends are experiencing is due to the fact that they have read the truth from their own books, which they didn’t wanted to read. So, can’t help them there.

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Take it easy…

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V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**


----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

watcher,
I read your post. It is interesting but what does it prove? That Shiaism was originated by a convert Jew?
It is the same allegation as brelvis label against wahabies being originated by a jew?
Are jews really responsible for all the divisions in Islam or they are escapegoats for all this?
By the way, read the following site by a shia mulla. He totally contradicts the presence of any such person named Bin Saba. www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter10/1.html


BELIEF IS NOT WHAT MIND POSSESSES, BELIEF IS WHAT POSSESSES THE MIND!

Watcher, you sure are a deranged individual. Below is what you posted that the holy imams said. Please let us all know what you find disagreeable.

I guess you didn't read the article out of excitement.

If anyone claimed divinity for the imams, then that is kufar. That is what the holy ahl bait are telling you. Give them the position that Allah (swt) and his holy messenger gave them. Nothing more, nothing less.

The joke is on you my confused one.

  1. "Narrated to me Muhammad bin Qolawaih: Narrated to me Sa'd bin Abdullah, said: Narrated to us Yaqoub bin Yazeed and Muhammad bin Issa from Ali bin Mahziyar, from Fadalah bin Ayoub al-Azdi, from Abban bin Othman said: I heard Abu Abdullah [as] saying: 'May Allah curse Abdallah bin Saba', he claimed a divineship for Amirul-Mu'mineen (Ali) [as]. By Allah, Amierul-Mu'mineen [as] was volunterily the slave of Allah. Woe to him who lie about us, for there are people who say about us what we don't say about ourselves,we clear ourselves to Allah from them, we clear ourselves to Allah from them'."
  2. "Narrated Yaqoub bin Yazeed from Ibn Abi Omair and Ahmad bin Muhammad bin Issa, from his father and al-Husain bin Sa'eed, from Hisham bin Salim, from Abu Hamza al-Thumali said: Ali bin al-Husain [as] said:
    'May the curse of Allah be upon those who tell lies about us. I mentioned Abdullah Ibn Saba and each hair in my body stood up, Allah cursed him. Ali (AS) was, by Allah, a proper servant of Allah, the brother of the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF). He did not earn the graciousness/honor from Allah except with the obedience to Allah and His Messenger. And (similarly) the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) did not earn the honor from Allah except with his obedience to Allah'."

  3. Narrated Muhammad bin Khalid At-Tayalisi, from Ibn Abi Najran, from Abdullah bin Sinaan said: Abu Abdullah [as] said:
    "We are a family of truthfulness. But we are not safe from a liar telling lies about us to undermine our truth with his lies in front of people. The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) was the most truthful among people in what he said (Lahjatan) and the most truthful among all humanity; and Musaylima used to lie on him. The Commander of Believers (AS) was the most truthful one among the creation of Allah after the Messenger of Allah; and the one who used to lie on him, and tried to undermine his truthfulness and claimed lies about Allah, was Abdullah Ibn Saba." .

Ibid, pp. 100,101
Need further Shi'ites sources? We'll call to testimony al-Hasan bin Ali al-Hilly, another famous Shi'i biographist, and examine what he had to say about the Jew Ibn Saba':

"Abdullah bin Saba' returned to disbelief and showed extremism. He claimed prophethood, and that Ali [as] was Allah (in the flesh). Ali [as], for three (consecutive) days asked him to repent but he failed, thereupon, he [as] burned him (alive) with seventy other men who attributed divinship to him"
Kitaab al-Rijaal: al-Hilly, p.469, printed in Tehran, Iran 1383 h. From Ash-Shi'a wat-Tashayyu', p.56
We'll further call another witness for the stand, the Shi'i biogrophist, al-Astra Abadi, and examine his tesitmony:

"Abdullah bin Saba' claimed prophethood and that Ali [as] is himself Allah the Most Exalted. Upon hearing this charge, Amirul-Mu'mineen called and inquired it from him. When he admitted, he said to him: back off from this say and repent, may your mother lose you. However;(Ibn Saba') refused, and (Ali) held him for three days, and, still refusing to repent, he therefore burned him(alive)"
Manhaj al-Maqaal: al-Astar Abadi, p.203, from: Ash-Ashia wat-Tashayyu', p.56
We have another witness, which we like to take his statement, a Persian historian, in his "Tareekh Shi'i" confirmed and wrote:

"When Abdullah bin Saba' learned that the opposition to Othman in Egypt was greater, he went there and pretended the knowledge and righteouseness until the people trusted him. After he established himself there, he started to propagate his ideas and theory, that for each Prophet was an appointed successor, and the appointee (wasi) of the Apostle of Allah and his successor is no other than Ali, who is blessed with knowledge and Fatwa, ornamented with generousity and courage, and known for his honesty and righteouseness. He further said: The Ummah has wronged Ali, usurped his right, the right of Khilafah (succession) and Walayah (allegiance). It is encumbant upon you all to aid and support him. He (immediately) revoked his obedience and allegiance to Othman, and touched many Egyptians with his sayings and deeds, and they revolted against Othman"
Tareekh Shi'i: Rawdat As-Safa, vol.2, p.292, Tehran Ed., From: Ashi'a wat-Tashayyu' , p.56
And there are hundreds of other books who affirmed and confirmed, that Shi'ism started with this Jewish Yemenite who pretended "Love of Ahlul-Bayt" and sought justice for them, as a plot to crack the unity of the Muslim Ummah who crushed the Jewish tribes in the Arabic Penensula. It is not amazing therefore, that the alliance between the Jews and the Persian Majoos (Zoroastrians) prosper to revenge from those who destroyed their dreams and humiliated a civilization not long ago, was one of two super powers in the world. This is briefly why Shi'ism prospered mainly in the land of the Fire worshippers, Persia.


The first one is Muhammed, the last one is Muhammed, they are all Muhammed (the 12 holy imams)

Sir, shia's own hadith books are claiming that their originator was a Jews converted to Muslim and turned out to be a hypcrite. Its right there in SHIA BOOKS, I am not making this up!!!


*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*


----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

Talking to a mule would be more beneficial that with you Watcher. Let's shatter yr false propaganda.

ABSURD TO ASSOCIATE ABDULLAH
BIN SABA WITH SHIAS

Well-Wisher: It is unusual for a learned man like you to base his arguments on utterly false grounds. There is no sense in your associating the name of Abdullah Bin Saba with the Shias. Abdullah Bin Saba was a Jew, and, according to Shia sources, a hypocrite and is harshly condemned. If for some time he appeared to be a friend of Ali, what connection did he have with the Shias? If a thief puts on the attire of a learned man, mounts the pulpit, and injures the cause of Islam, should you be averse to learning and call learned men thieves?

In fact, Shia Muslims have never been merely a political party. They have always comprised a religious sect, which was not founded, as you say, in the time of Caliph Uthman, but was propagated through the words and commands of the Prophet during his own time. While you argue on the basis of the concocted evidence of enemies, I will cite for you verses from the Holy Qur'an and records of your own authors to establish the true position.

MEANING OF SHIA

Well-Wisher: Shia, as you know, literally means "follower." One of your greatest ulema, Firuzabadi, in his Qamusu'l-Lughat, says, "The name 'Shia' commonly means every person who is a friend of Ali and his Ahle Bait. This name is peculiar to them." Exactly the same meaning is given by Ibn Athir in Nihayatu'l-Lughat. According to your own commentaries, the word Shia means "follower of Ali Bin Abu Talib" and was used in this way during the time of the Prophet. In fact, it was the Prophet himself who introduced the word Shia as meaning "follower of Ali Bin Abu Talib." And this word was used by the Holy Prophet about whom Allah says: "Nor does he speak out of desire. It is naught but revelation that is revealed." (53:3-4) The Prophet called the followers of Ali "The Shia," the "delivered," and the "rescued."

Hafiz: Where is such a thing? We have never seen it.

Well-Wisher: We have seen it, and we do not think it proper to conceal facts. Allah condemned concealers and called them companions of Hell. Allah says, "Surely those who conceal the clear proofs and the guidance that We revealed after We made it clear in the Book for men, those it is whom Allah shall curse, and those who curse shall curse them (too)." (2:159) "Surely those who conceal any part of the Book that Allah has revealed and take for it a small price, they eat nothing but fire into their bellies, and Allah will not speak to them on the Day of Resurrection, nor will He purify them, and they shall have a painful chastisement." (2:170)

Hafiz: If we know the truth and conceal it, I agree we deserve condemnation as revealed in these holy verses.

Well-Wisher: I hope you keep these two verses in mind so that habit or intolerance may not overpower you. Hafiz Abu Nu'aim Ispahani is one of the most distinguished of your narrators of hadith. Ibn Khallikan has praised him in his Wafayatu'l-A'ayan' as one of the great Huffaz (men of wisdom), and one of the most learned narrators of hadith. He also states that the ten volumes of his Hilyatu'l-Auliya are among the most instructive of books. Salahu'd-din Khalil bin Aibak Safdi writes in his Wafiy bi'l-Wafiyat about him, "The crown of narrators of hadith, Hafiz Abu Nu'aim, was the foremost in knowledge, piety, and honesty. He enjoyed a high position in the narration and understanding of hadith. His best work is Hilyatu'l-Auliya in 10 volumes, consisting of derivations from the two Sahihs." Muhammad bin Abdullah al-Khatib praises him in Rijali'l-Mishkati'l-Masabih, saying that he is among the leading narrators of hadith whose narrations are utterly reliable.

In short, this respected scholar and traditionist, the pride of your ulema, relates from Abdullah bin Abbas through his own chain of narrators in his book Hilyatu'l-Auliya relates: "When the following verse of the holy Qur'an was revealed: '(As for) those who believe and do good, surely they are the best of men. Their reward with their Lord is gardens of perpetuity beneath which rivers flow, abiding therein for ever. Allah is well pleased with them and they are well pleased with Him; that is for him who fears his Lord.' (98:7-8), the Holy Prophet, addressing Ali, said: 'O Ali, the best of creatures (Khairu'l-bariyya) in this holy verse refers to you and your followers (Shia). On the Day of Resurrection, you and your followers (Shia) shall attain such a position that Allah will be pleased with you, and you will be pleased with Him.'"

Who was this accursed Abdullah bin Saba ?

It is reported that Abu Abdillah (AS) said:
"We are a family of truthfulness. But we are not safe from a liar
telling lies about us to undermine our truth with his lies in front of
people. The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) was the most truthful among
people in what he said (Lahjatan) and the most truthful among all
humanity; and Musaylima used to lie on him. The Commander of Believers
(AS) was the most truthful one among the creation of Allah after the
Messenger of Allah; and the one who used to lie on him, and tried to
undermine his truthfulness and claimed lies about Allah, was Abdullah
Ibn Saba." (Rijal, by al-Kushshi)Also:
"As he (Aba Abdillah - Ja'far al-Sadiq) was telling his companions in
the subject of Abdullah Ibn Saba and that he claimed in Godness of The
Commander of Believers, Ali Ibn Abi Talib. He said: When he claimed
that in Ali, he asked him to repent and he refused, so he burnt him
with fire." (Rijal, by al-Kushshi)
As for the Sunnis, few reports from Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani which provide the
very similar information of what al-Kushshi (Kash) provided. Ibn Hajarmentioned:
"Abdullah Ibn Saba was one of the extremist (al-Ghulat),
dualist/seducee/manichaeist (Zindeeq), and misguided, which is
conveyed that Ali burnt him with fire." (Lisan al-Mizan, by Ibn Hajar
al-Asqalani, v3, p289)Then Ibn Hajar continues:
"Ibn Asakir mentioned in his History that `his origin (Abdullah
Ibn Saba) was from Yemen and that he was a Jew who adopted Islam and
traveled in the cities of Muslims and preached them to disobey their
rulers, to induce evil amongst them, then he entered Damascus for that
purpose.' Then Ibn Asakir mentioned a LONG STORY from the book of
al-Futooh of Sayf Ibn Umar, which does not have correct support/
authorities (isnad)." (Lisan al-Mizan, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani,
v3, p289)
Then Ibn Hajar gives a tradition among whose chain of authorities two
individuals are missing. In footnote he says that its has been dropped.
This is the tradition:
"Ali ascended the pulpit and said: What is wrong with him? people
said: He is denying (or lying upon) Allah and His Messenger." (Lisan
al-Mizan, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v3, p289)
In another tradition, Ibn Hajar reported:
"Ali said to Abdullah Ibn Saba: I have been told that there shall be
thirty liars/imposters (who claim prophethood) and your are one of
them" (Lisan al-Mizan, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v3, p290)He also wrote:
"Ibn Saba and his followers believed in the deity of Ali Ibn Abi
Talib, and certainly Ali burnt them by fire during his rule."
(Lisan al-Mizan, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v3, p290)
These Sunni traditions were not rated authentic either. The total of these
tradition by both Shia and Sunni (reported by other than Sayf), do not
exceed fourteen at most. They will be even less if you remove repetitions.
These few Sunnite and Shi'ite traditions convey that:
1. Abdullah Ibn Saba appeared during the Caliphate of Imam Ali (AS), and
not during the rule of Uthman as Sayf alleged.
2. Abdullah Ibn Saba did not say that Ali is the successor of Prophet
(PBUH&HF) as Sayf claimed. Rather he said Ali (AS) is God.
3. Imam Ali (AS) burnt him along with all other extremists (al-Ghulat).
This is while Sayf does not state such a thing.
4. There is no mention of his existence or his playing a role at the time
of Uthman. There is no mention of his agitation against Uthman which
ended up with assassination of Uthman as Sayf attributed to Abdullah Ibn
Saba.5. There is no mention of the role of Abdullah Ibn Saba in the battle of
Camel as Sayf attributed to him.
6. These traditions do not indicate that any righteous companions of
Prophet followed Abdullah Ibn Saba. This is while Sayf maliciously
alleged that some of the most faithful pioneers of Islam such as Abu
Darr (RA) and Ammar Yasir (RA) were the students of Abdullah Ibn Saba
during the reign of Uthman.

Yet u sunnis do not stop in indulging with falsehood. Bunch of desperate kids is what you all are.

You are right alshah, talking to mule would be better FOR YOU becausem a mule would understand your lies and fabrication better.

A mule would understand you better, because you 2 are from the same family and would not have any arguments or trouble making sense to each other.

As for me a human, i would never want to understand the lies and non-sense that you are posting. I posted this stuff right out of your SHIA hadith books, you have problem with it. If I post stuff from my hadith book you have a problem with it. If i post right out of QURAN and you have problem with it. Looks like your not even a shia who rejects quran and posts stuff which is according to your desires.

Where do you find these idiotic, full of nothing and long-lost articles from? Your just like Ahmad G, he posts BS on here with no references, if there are any, those are made up and fabricated out of your own mouth according to your needs.

See, right there. I put you where you belong. Now put your tail between your legs and start acting like what your preaching. Do you know Islam teaches you NOT to lie, but your preaching Islam, at the same time your posting lies and fabricated hadiths? WHats up with that buddy? Are you so full of BS and immorality that you will twist and turn the word of Mohammad and word of ALlah to get what you want? HUH? Thats not what a Muslim would do, thats Only what a mushrik, munafik, and a kafir would do = always trying to mock and tell lies about Islam.

So grow up and start believeing what your preaching. Again, that stuff is right in your SHIA HADITH BOOKS, go read them. I bet you have not, just like every other shia wanna be on this forum.

I wonder why do you defend stuff, which you have no knowledge about except that your mom tells you its ok? Well guess what? Your moms words have no value when it comes to matters concerning Islam. ONLY word that goes is word of ALLAH and his messenger(sunnah). What ever your Imam, ancestors, mamma, etc. say have no value when it comes to concerning Islam, always refer to QURAN and SUNNAH with those matters, please.

Hope I shoved some sense into you, may Allah show you the right path of Islam. AMeen.

And if you continue to chose to post lies and creat lies and post misleading information about islam, may allah burn you in hell for eternity and put you in the highest level of hell fire. AMeen.

Take it easy, my friend!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif


V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**


----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

l..

i try not to get involved in the shia/sunni issue. but this is too much.
obviously, ur hatred for sunnis is too deep for u to act civilized. Instead of carrying on a discussion in a mature manner, you’ve been calling watcher names; and now ur insulting ALL the sunnis, which means ur insulting me and i dont even know you.
Would you like it if i were to start calling shias names and say that they’re living a life of falsehood? Why is it so easy for u to insult a sunni person? would you call a hindu,jew or christian the same names u called us? no, that would be too rude i suppose.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/disgust.gif


“Amor Fati”

hk, don't worry about him.

It's people like him that are not doing anything for the Muslims apart from curse everyone left right and center.

If you look at the Sunnah of our Beloved Prophet (PBUH) then you will learn that there are ways of conducting discussions.

didn't i hear A1Shah say he was 14 years old or something?

Judging by his comments, I hope the Shias on this forum will dissassociate themselves with him.

So once again, don't worry about people like him. The real muslims inshallah are the ones that are doing something for Islam....nopt just talking

There are reasonable shias onthis forum too viz.Salaman and Insaniat.
I have been reading posts by sunnis and shias both and it is a sorry state some guys and gals are here just to show how disrespectful they are of others beliefs and A1shah is probably topmost. If he is 14 years old he is not mature enough to be a part of any serious discussion either. His posts show that his heart is filled with hate and anger and this forum is just an outlet for the hate rather than to be indulged in a meaningful discussion.
I believe these forums are to exchange ideas and beliefs only and to learn more about other people’s belief. This forum or any other forum is not meant to solve any conflict because it simply can not happen until doomsday. because;

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/cool.gif


BELIEF IS NOT WHAT MIND POSSESSES, BELIEF IS WHAT POSSESSES THE MIND!

Absoulutely amazing,

The limits of you sunnars' low morality amazes even myself. I mean I knew how your scholars were nothing but puppets of the wahbi fitna but I hadn't realized the extent to which kids like you have been brain-watched.

A good shia to you is one who excepts all this Abdullah bin Saba concoctions and keeps silent. Dream on girls.

You have a mis-guided flee like Watcher posting continuous rubbish on Shia beliefs and practices and I am the one being accused. You sunni losers do not take offend to Watcher's accusations on the holy prophet's progeny, accusing Imam Jafer Sadiq and the other holy sinless imams yet you cry foul when I call this donkey a mule.

You are right about I thing. A 14 yr old shia is enough to take you sunni cowards
on.

Do you people even know the the holy qur'an contains both a direct message and a message hidden deep in its words ? Uptill now, you sunnis only have the ability to discuss the superficial meanings and sayings of the holybook. But whenever the deeper, implicit meanings are discussed, you refused to believe them or say that the shia imams have made it up.

Your ignorance is yr downfall. It is because yr sham sahabahs like Baker and his collegues could not teach you the hidden treasures of Allah (swt)'s words that the holy apostle left his purified itra to guide you.

But go follow yr muawayah and Yazid.

And by the way;

do not flatter yrselves. Your beliefs are not worth a grain of salt for me to be bothered to hate them.

I am here only to shatter yr false propaganda and provide the righteous with the truth.

isnt it so easy to call people names sitting behind a computer?
u should be ashamed of urself.
makes u wonder where a 14 yr old learns to be so hateful...my first guess would be ur family, its not ur fault.
I dont think ur capable of carrying on a mature discussion, turning around arguments and swearing seems to be the only way u communicate. No one in the world will ever take u seriously, even when ur 40.
Islam, shia or sunni, does not teach anyone to be disrespectful towards others simply because they follow a different faith.

im surprised this thread's still open.


"Amor Fati"

Oh hk;

Now that really hurts.

I only wished you the best following yr Yazidiat ways. Why the hostility ? Love for munafiqs more than the holy apostle's progeny ? Or revelation of the truth too much to bear ?

Either way, you are a joke in itself.

Like my friend Watcher would say, take it easy, madam.

HK isn’t alshah showing his true colors, by using soo much profanity in his post, more than the actual words? Yeah, typical shia he is wanting to be.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

Useless piece of head, I feel sorry for em…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

ANywa take it easy


V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**


----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

hmm..

[This message has been edited by X_Communist (edited January 04, 2001).]

since when did u become the deliverer of the “truth”

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/disgust.gif

no one likes others stuffing their views down their throats…u remind of tv evangelists and that sounthern baptist priest who’s always on Larry King.


“Amor Fati”

My oh my,

Watcher must love it now that he has found some misled followers to support him. Such puppy love.

Good for you.

Let's not waste time Watcher. Pls post some new nonsense from your wahabi sites so that we can continue to shatter yr personality.