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21

Chann

thanks for this post. It is at the same time a reminder of a dark chapter as well as a cry to do more.

My parents families were both from India. Aside from a few people, no one has gone back to see the families there and vice versa. I am planning to go to Ambetta and saharnpur to meet my relatives from my dad's side. Unfortunately, same could not be said of most of the people from my mother's side of the family because quite a few were killed during the migration, with survivors of the train of the dead sharing some horror stories of their ordeals, those who stayed behind had mixed luck, some are prospering and doing well in Lucknow, others perished that year.

The saddest thing I can recall is my maternal grandfather, who has not seen his siblings since the partition because of lack of resources and then inability to go. When he did start thinking about plans to go he found out that his brother had passed away. I have never seen an expression that I saw in his face that day. being a patient man, he just prayed for his brother, hugged my uncle for a minute and then just told us all to appreciate our siblings.

I dont know, and I particularly am not in a mood to discuss politics here at all. But, I dont know if I can live without seeing my family and be happy...Those who lived through it, are much stronger than I.

22

Somehow I never hear them bitter about it

My family has made home in India they have done very well are not least bit bitter, since then lot of water has gone under the bridge, they talk about their lives which are interlinked with land but they have never had any desire to go back for a visit. My mum was a little girl, when her family left Pakistan, she wants to think of her home the way she left it the way it was 53years ago, and has no desire to go to back for a visit.

I have always missed people more than the places, without people the place means nothing...i think maybe that me..

P.S. Most of the Punjabis I know are from Pakistan side of Punjab, they are not bitter just disappointed on the turn of the events, none of them have ever expressed any desire to go for a visit, they simply don't care ...they sort of grown away from their past, it is present and future they care about.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited July 10, 2001).]

23

[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
***Somehow I never hear them bitter about it*

My family has made home in India they have done very well are not least bit bitter, since then lot of water has gone under the bridge, they talk about their lives which are interlinked with land but they have never had any desire to go back for a visit. My mum was a little girl, when her family left Pakistan, she wants to think of her home the way she left it the way it was 53years ago, and has no desire to go to back for a visit.

I have always missed people more than the places, without people the place means nothing...i think maybe that me..

P.S. Most of the Punjabis I know are from Pakistan side of Punjab, they are not bitter just disappointed on the turn of the events, none of them have ever expressed any desire to go for a visit, they simply don't care ...they sort of grown away from their past, it is present and future they care about.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited July 10, 2001).]**
[/quote]

C.M. Thank you for a good thread.I think one should never give up hope .Alternative-- of continued hostility is disaster & no sane man wants war in stead of peace.

Rani,

No matter how pathetic the situation has been ,i assure you you are not alone & im not talking of any one community.Instead of unburdening all your anger ,& grief on ONE T CAUSE ,as you do ,is not only NOT good for your grief nor is it fair to blame common muslim on either side.If you take the events to day how much are you ,as an invidual able to control the events either in Canada or India ,politically.
Looking back if anything there were mistakes,wrong steps , & unjust things were done by all kinds of indians ----hindu,muslim,sikh & also our master the bRitish Whites.
The British heartlessly treated each factions as inanimate pawns of the chess.
after all what kind of border this Radcliff drew right in the heart of Bengal & Punjab.It is as if objective was to cause maximium suffering with minimium energy.
When ever you feel the need to put the blame ,blame not on one but the whole Indian ppl. in the period.Common ppl. just ran hither & thither like frightened animals in the jungle too dazed to understand no more than how to survive for that day.Unfortunately the wars in last 53 years ,Kashmir ,has been hard on Indo Pak relations ,making it worse.
From my experience ,the priority in Indian side of the border was never conversion of muslim to hindu ,but rather discouragement of practice of islam or opposing it

Woh afsaana jise anjaam tak, laana na ho mumkin
Use ek KHoobsoorat moR dekar, chhoRna achha

[This message has been edited by FYI (edited July 11, 2001).]

24

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by FYI:
**
after all what kind of border this Radcliff drew right in the heart of Bengal & Punjab.**
what was the alternative??
**
From my experience ,the priority in Indian side of the border was never conversion of muslim to hindu ,but rather discouragement of practice of islam or opposing it
**
how they do it? are there laws banning hijab or making coversion to islam illegal or even about praying in street or public place?

25

Originally posted by FYI:

Rani,

No matter how pathetic the situation has been ,i assure you you are not alone & im not talking of any one community.Instead of unburdening all your anger ,& grief on ONE T CAUSE ,as you do ,is not only NOT good for your grief nor is it fair to blame common muslim on either side.

You are making lot of assumptions about me, I don't hate anybody nor waste my life grieving, at the same time it will be foolish not to learn from history, all this happened mere 53 years ago and it can easily happen again, if we are not vigilant. Calls about superiority of Islam and flag on Red Fort, although radiculous are not conducive to peace and friendship.

If you take the events to day how much are you ,as an invidual able to control the events either in Canada or India ,politically.
Looking back if anything there were mistakes,wrong steps , & unjust things were done by all kinds of indians ----hindu,muslim,sikh & also our master the bRitish Whites.

I Know that each of us have lot of power to do good, blaming the crowd or polliticians is an easy way out. Most of the time polliticians do what people want them to do.

The British heartlessly treated each factions as inanimate pawns of the chess.
after all what kind of border this Radcliff drew right in the heart of Bengal & Punjab.It is as if objective was to cause maximium suffering with minimium energy.
When ever you feel the need to put the blame ,blame not on one but the whole Indian ppl. in the period.Common ppl. just ran hither & thither like frightened animals in the jungle too dazed to understand no more than how to survive for that day.

I agree, British did a very shody job of dividing India, they didn't prepare for transistion and to top it, they withdrew their millitary and let common people be butchered.

Unfortunately the wars in last 53 years ,Kashmir ,has been hard on Indo Pak relations ,making it worse.

I agree

*From my experience ,the priority in Indian side of the border was never conversion of muslim to hindu ,but rather discouragement of practice of islam or opposing it *

I hope muslim Pakistan somehow understands that nobody is superior or inferior and all religions should be respected and accepted, without this there will be no peace on the sub-continent.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited July 11, 2001).]

26

Look whos talking! Bringing religeon into every post. Ridiculing Islam. Mocking Pakistanis? Talk about hippocracy!

[quote]
Originally posted by Rani:
**I hope muslim Pakistan somehow understands that nobody is superior or inferior and all religions should be respected and accepted, without this there will be no peace on the sub-continent.

[This message has been edited by Rani (edited July 11, 2001).]**
[/quote]

27

Here is someone from Patiala in someother board. and If this is the Dr Bhagat singh from Patiala that I am familiar of...then that speaks for a lot itself.

By sarpreet on Saturday, July 14, 2001 - 01:47 am:

my parents got uprooted in 47 from pakistan but they still just cannot forget the places and people , they were brought up with. i never got a chance to visit pakistan but would love to do it . my dada ji sardar gian singh was from chakri dheri(kampbellpur)and nana ji from mandi bhauldin (dinga) gujrat. i ill be shukarguzar to any body knowing them or these places will communicate, khuda hafiz

By sarpreet on Saturday, July 14, 2001 - 04:40 am:

any good soul from chakri dheri (kampbellpur) or from mandibhauldeen (gujrat),kindly contact capt. sarpreet , patiala, punjab , india,(my e-mail address is ****** hum hee mein thee na koi baat,yaad na tum ko aa aa sakey, tumne hamein bhula diya, hum na tumhe bhula sakey

By sarpreet on Sunday, July 15, 2001 - 03:15 am:

respected elders, salaam, does any body remember Dr. bhagat singh of mandi bhaul deen, please go down the memory lane and tell me something about his childhood and young days, he was my nana ji, although he is no more but he used to tell me a lot about the goodness of fellow muslims, kindly send mail to **** khuda hafiz

28

[quote]
Originally posted by ZZ:
**
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by FYI:
**
after all what kind of border this Radcliff drew right in the heart of Bengal & Punjab.**
what was the alternative??
**
From my experience ,the priority in Indian side of the border was never conversion of muslim to hindu ,but rather discouragement of practice of islam or opposing it
**
how they do it? are there laws banning hijab or making coversion to islam illegal or even about praying in street or public place?**
[/quote]

ZZ,

In hindsight ofcourse ,i am no genius ,but look at the mess caused b/c of this partition.Partition should not have been acceptable to hindus .It was not initially acceptable to Gandhi (before he was coerced by violence ,poor chap was human after all)
The british would have delayed independence ,which they did not want to do themselves.They in only 6 months thaught the solution & implemented it ,literally bullied bothsides into it .Mr.Jinnah was not SATISFIED with "moth eaten" pakistan,Congress was reluctant but FOR THE IMMEDIATE GRATIFICATION OF INDEPEDENCE WITHIN MONTHS ,they yielded.

O.k. what shape the settlement between Hindu & muslim would have taken say in 1948,49,50.....whole year .Ultimately either way ,British would hacve given independence just as they folded away from Burma,Malaysia,Middle East ,Nigeria ,Kenya ...etc etc.British would never have continued into the mellineum,it was logistically impossible.

Rani,

I didnt mean to suggest that you are actively grieving now,its more your parents & there generation on both sides.There is absolutely similar issues in migrant ppl. on both sides of the border .

"I Know that each of us have lot of power to do good, blaming the crowd or polliticians is an easy way out. Most of the time polliticians do what people want them to do."

If you think you have power ,there is nothing you can do .Do you think people of Kashmir have power? & if they do ,would you like to live like them ?Is not kashmir on one hand ,annexed to india without the total plebescite or referendum(im not saying they wont choose india ,they might) of the people.What kashmiri ppl. can do .they have been asking for 53 yrs still after thousdands dead ,& state reduced from switzerland of Asia to worse than Bangladesh.

I dont think PEOPLE control there own destiny.They just adjust to it .Whatever outcome of Kashmir ,ppl. will adjust to it or suffer for ever.
Sorry for digression,but example is stil pertinent.ordinary people are just pawn on the chess board.

[This message has been edited by FYI (edited July 15, 2001).]

29

After reading articles like this I'm greatful that my family never suffered from Partition in the same way as many others did. Those in my family who moved to Pakistan and those who stayed behind to look after our property in India have been in contact since the family was split. Only recently have there been any difficulties in famiy members from each side of the border visiting each other. Certainly throughout the 50s my grandfather and his children used to regularly fly to India to visit the others. In fact, there are a number of intermarriages between the Pakistani branch and the Indian branch of my family.

30

[quote]
Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT:
After reading articles like this I'm greatful that my family never suffered from Partition in the same way as many others did. Those in my family who moved to Pakistan and those who stayed behind to look after our property in India have been in contact since the family was split. Only recently have there been any difficulties in famiy members from each side of the border visiting each other. Certainly throughout the 50s my grandfather and his children used to regularly fly to India to visit the others. In fact, there are a number of intermarriages between the Pakistani branch and the Indian branch of my family.
[/quote]

Mad scientist,

Knowing that your fathe was from Hyderabad,Deccan ,i.e. is India how can you say you were not affected.

Half mine family on father & mother side are in India & so is true for most of the ppl. whose folks migrated to OPakistan.

With the difficulty in travel between the two countries ,they are almost firced to severe relation betwen thses two close group of kith & kins.

If you think about it having lost 1/2 of your close relative while alive is most distressing.

: :)

When was i for real?
I am myself a dream :)
I always see you
watching me tenderly :)

31

[quote]
Originally posted by sanam:
** Mad scientist,

Knowing that your fathe was from Hyderabad,Deccan ,i.e. is India how can you say you were not affected.

Half mine family on father & mother side are in India & so is true for most of the ppl. whose folks migrated to OPakistan.

With the difficulty in travel between the two countries ,they are almost firced to severe relation betwen thses two close group of kith & kins.

If you think about it having lost 1/2 of your close relative while alive is most distressing.
**
[/quote]

Sanam,
This is my point exactly. In my family, ties
between the 2 sides of the family were never severed. Whilst travel restrictions did make personal contact often difficult, both sides stayed in touch through mail and telephone calls.

Obviously as time goes on, contact between the family's halves will decrease. Right now, I'm only in contact with the Indian part of my father's family - whilst a significant part of my mother's family is still in Hyderabad, I have no contact with them, although some of my uncles do.

Eventually, I guess the Pakistani part and the Indian part of my family will become so distantly related that there will be hardly any more contact.

But for now, this situation doesn't exist. In fact, out of all of my cousins, the 2 who I feel closest to are from the Indian part of my family.

And of course, when living abroad, outside Pakistan and India, it is very easy for people from both sides of the family to mingle and mix. I live in England; my closest relatives outside my family in this country are my dad's Indian cousin and his family. Similarly, in America and the middle east, people from both parts of the family are in regular contact.

The single biggest cause of friction we find is who to support in Indo-Pak cricket matches!!!