Sorry my mistake... the Cultus was available around 10 years back as Chevrolet Sprint not Firefly... that's a different car.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Shak killS: *
why everyone blamiing cultus! here, its previous model which is stil in prodcution in pak as kheyber was a successfull model and still is.
so cultus has been successfull what you think. if not the new model
[/QUOTE]
The Suzuki Cultus assembled here is a piece of crap - a mechanical rattle, Even the paint job has orange peel.
As for the Fiat Uno it is a good machine - mechanically good and powerful also. Even the door handles have a solid rifle bolt action. The shape is quite boxy though. The reason for failing here is that people in Pakistan are suckers for the shape of cars - just for example The Toyota Corolla AE101 assembled since 1993 to 2001 was a far better machine (mechanically) than the Honda Civic with VTEC - but civic sold far more than the corolla. Guess??
As for brands - no brand can ever give the desired performance unless a strict Quality control department is monitoring all.
Quality is one thing that cannot be controlled here in Pakistan - look at Honda Motorcycles assembled in Pakistan - they have deteriorated their quality ever since the take over.
All in all - I think that people dont care about quality of cars - they only care about the shape and prestige of owning the latest model car. No matter it may be the biggest lemon of the market.
Pakistan should start making Maruti's.
^no indian boy... we dont want those hideous looking workof monstrosity trolling on our roads.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Brute: *
- just for example The Toyota Corolla AE101 assembled since 1993 to 2001 was a far better machine (mechanically) than the Honda Civic with VTEC -
[/QUOTE]
How? Please elaborate.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ChthonicPowers: *
How? Please elaborate.
[/QUOTE]
and Brute bhai, while you're at it - could you also point out which cars (currently in Pak) are worth buying??
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Gamma Dilation: *
^no indian boy... we dont want those hideous looking workof monstrosity trolling on our roads.
[/QUOTE]
That should solve your carjacking problem?
[QUOTE]
That should solve your carjacking problem?
[/QUOTE]
uh no. Maybe in india you go by the concept of turning cars ugly to prevent carjacking. in Pakistan we have car tracking systems to prevent the same.
:k:
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ChthonicPowers: *
uh no. Maybe in india you go by the concept of turning cars ugly to prevent carjacking. in Pakistan we have car tracking systems to prevent the same.
[/QUOTE]
:D lol @ ugly cars preventing carjacking.
Mr Powers
As for the question of which car is better - I do not exactly know what you look for in a car - as for my opinion I look for dependability - ruggedness and long trouble free service.
As for the Corolla vs Civic - The AE101 used the 4AGE engine - a gem of an engine - that span a decade in production, it goes on strong without troubles for more than 200,000 kms - The Honda assembled here that used the D16 Vtec engine experiences vtec control jet malfunction in the mid 50,000 km range and the crank starts to give way at abt 90,000 kms - The suspension system used in the Honda is a double wishbone which suffers from ultra hard rebound up front and the rear uses a huge traling arm that flexes like bubble gum. The very high marketed 4 wheel disc brakes fry at speeds above 140 km/hr.
The toyota on the other hand uses a very simple yet effecient system of Mcpherson struts with long travel. The toyota may look kind of bland but its what under the skin that counts. The brakes are of simple large discs front and drums rear - The body is stiff and solid and the suspension controls the chassis like clockwork.
Any comments would be aprreciated.
Good cars to buy are the Toyota Corolla mentioned above - the toyota Corolla EE90 series, the Nissan Sunny and Fiat Uno for dependability while Suzukis and Hondas for good buck value. Kia's are downright weird clones of Vauxhalls and Mazdas.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Brute: *
Mr Powers
As for the question of which car is better - I do not exactly know what you look for in a car - as for my opinion I look for dependability - ruggedness and long trouble free service.
[/QUOTE]
Same here. Nobody would like an unreliable car. Now:
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Brute: *
As for the Corolla vs Civic - The AE101 used the 4AGE engine - a gem of an engine - that span a decade in production, it goes on strong without troubles for more than 200,000 kms - The Honda assembled here that used the D16 Vtec engine experiences vtec control jet malfunction in the mid 50,000 km range and the crank starts to give way at abt 90,000 kms - .
[/QUOTE]
When you say the D16 experiences problems at 50,000Kms, do you base it on some objective data or your personal experience? A couple of my friends and Uncles have owned Civics are several years now, and buy the new model every time it comes out. No one has ever mentioned the problems you speak of. In fact one of my uncle almost exclusively buys Civics. He's bought them since 1995, and wouldn't touch a Corolla. Now I am not sure if Civic had such problems it'd have such following..at all. Secondly, Pakistan is a free economy, more or less. If Civic was so poor mechanically, no one would be willing to buy it given it costs more than the Corolla, came out before it (2001 -vs- 2003 MY)
so the theory that Civic only sells because peple in Pakistan only want new flashy cars pretty much goes out of the window.
Nevertheless, I'll still talk to my spare parts dealer about the problems you mentioned, and specifically ask him about the crankshaft/control jet problem when i get a chance, but the only thing is I only have to visit him once in a blue moon. And I own a Honda.
Lastly, You mention the Toyota engine is better than Honda because it is more rugged and reliable. Once again, I haven't ONCE heard of a problem with a VTEC engine. In fact one of my friends in Lahore bought a Civic after owning a 1991 Corolla for several years, and he LOVES the engine. I'll ask him about the number on the odometer, but since its a late 1999 model, I am sure the car is way past the 50,000km mark. Not to mention the fact that Honda took the opportunity to launch new technologies into the Pakistani market way before Toyota. I am sure if it hadn't been for the Honda launching redesigned models of Civic regularly, Pakistani public would still be stuck with the Vanilla Corolla.
In fact Corolla still doesnt offer you Variable timing on their engines. I dont know about you, but if I get better technology and reliability, I'd buy it.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Brute: *
The suspension system used in the Honda is a double wishbone which suffers from ultra hard rebound up front and the rear uses a huge traling arm that flexes like bubble gum. The very high marketed 4 wheel disc brakes fry at speeds above 140 km/hr.
The toyota on the other hand uses a very simple yet effecient system of Mcpherson struts with long travel.
The toyota may look kind of bland but its what under the skin that counts. The brakes are of simple large discs front and drums rear - The body is stiff and solid and the suspension controls the chassis like clockwork.
Any comments would be aprreciated.
[/QUOTE]
i'll have to disagree again. I've driven both the Civic's and Corolla's that you mentioned, and I did not find any fault with the suspension. The cars are smooth, and very controlled. One thing though: You'll notice that more young people drive Civic than Corolla. Given their general tendency to drive hard, why would they want to keep a car whose suspension flexes like bubble gum?
Talking of mechanics, I doubt anyone who knows even a tiny bit about suspensions will ever give preference to McPherson Struts over Double Wishbone. Just go and ask F1, Rolls Royce, ferarri, Mercedes, Honda, Lambo, heck..even Lexus.
Disc brakes heat up more than drum brakes. No doubt. But you say Honda's 4 wheel disc heat up more than Toyota's disc and drum..apples to oranges, i am afraid. It'd be only fair if you compare a 4 wheel disc Corolla with the Civic. And again, Honda takes the lead over Corolla in terms of technology. And you yourself say: its what under the skin that counts, and thats where Honda is so much better. By the time Toyota has offered 4 wheel discs on Corolla, Honda has gone one step further to the ABS.
PS: do mention the speed at which the Corolla's brakes fry..if at all?
Edit: My apologies if i come off as being rude. No rudeness was intended. I hope the arguement proceeds with flame wars.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by waleed: *
12.5 million? r u guys hoking how much is that in pounds
[/QUOTE]
roughly 10 to 11 grands
Could it be another hoax??? Let's hope not...
Can anyone post it's picture (Poton's)... or post the web address to it's site.
-- Malaysian firm to enter Pakistan auto sector
LAHORE (July 02 2003) : A Malaysian automobiles company, manufacturing 'Poton' will establish its plant in Pakistan in collaboration with local participation in the current financial year.
The Malaysian company has shown its interest to join auto sector in Pakistan in a meeting with commerce ministry observing lucrative auto sector growth.
The Pakistan government is learnt to have directed its High Commissioner in Malaysia to co-ordinate with the investors with a view to help them out in the plans for investment in Pakistan.
Poton's economy passenger car is comparatively cheaper in price as compared to the cars currently being produced in Pakistan.
...
Source: Business Recorder (www.brecorder.com)
Talking a study conducted by the IBRD (I think or was it the IMF...) Anyway the study showed that the "poton" is to damn expensive to buy for the average Malaysian. If a college graduate with a steady job applied to borrow a loan from the bank for a poton. He would be turned down as the car is too damn expensive that the bank wont risk it. So i am not sure how this helps pakistan.
They establish a plant for a car that is too expensive to build and sell in Malaysia, yet Pakistanis have the money to buy it? The cost of production must be really really minimal in pakistan for them to move their production facilities here and still make a profit. I wouldnt hold my breath on this one.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Shak killS: *
roughly 10 to 11 grands
[/QUOTE]
It's 12.5 Million, not 1.25 Million... A brand new Merc S-600 costs around 12.5 Million Rupees in Pakistan.
That in terms of US dollars is equivalent to around $215,000 (@ RS. 58 to a dollar).
I've heard there is a problem with the new Corolla (especially with 1300cc model Xli/Gli). One thing I know for certain, the new Corolla being assembled in Pakistan has exactly the same engine as the one in the previous model. But the difference is that the net weight of the new Corolla is like 150-200 KGs more than the previous model, which means the same engine now has to pull more weight. And that affects its performance during acceleration. Whether it's true or not, I donot know but it does sound logically correct.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by CM: *
Talking a study conducted by the IBRD (I think or was it the IMF...) Anyway the study showed that the "poton" is to damn expensive to buy for the average Malaysian. If a college graduate with a steady job applied to borrow a loan from the bank for a poton. He would be turned down as the car is too damn expensive that the bank wont risk it. So i am not sure how this helps pakistan.
They establish a plant for a car that is too expensive to build and sell in Malaysia, yet Pakistanis have the money to buy it? The cost of production must be really really minimal in pakistan for them to move their production facilities here and still make a profit. I wouldnt hold my breath on this one.
[/QUOTE]
How expensive it is?? Any idea about its price.
Is it comparable to Honda/Toyota or Santro (and other mini cars)??
I wish those Rs. 100K Chinese cars come to Pakistan soon... it'll certainly revolutionize the way people travel there.
Just saw Proton on the net. The car looks descent enough. Site's address is www.proton.com
The correct name of the car is Proton (not Poton as in the news quoted above).
No clue what the price is but if the average Malay cant own the car, how can the average pakistani?