I believe the government should welcome this development as Australia is one of the world leaders in coal mining.
Australia offers joint venture for development of Thar Coal | DAWN.COM
Re: Australia offers joint venture on development of Thar coal
^ And what if Pakistan isn’t interested at all in utilizing its coal reserves? 
As long as we can buy oil at any rate and sell it at any rate, who bothers about coal? 
Re: Australia offers joint venture on development of Thar coal
Well, it depends on what will be the "percentage" offered. Remember that Raja Rental is PM now.
Re: Australia offers joint venture on development of Thar coal
Baat tou such hay nagar baat hay ruswaayi ki
Re: Australia offers joint venture on development of Thar coal
Pakistan over-relies on oil in every shape, way and form. If they can reduce their dependence on oil and diversify their energy needs from different forms of resources then its a positive step for Pakistan. Pakistan alone doesn’t have the financial, technological or even will power to extract its limited resources.
Re: Australia offers joint venture on development of Thar coal
^ every one knows that but there are very powerful mafias in the shape of oil importers (LNG/LPG) mafias who don't want the country's dependence on these fuels reduced.
Re: Australia offers joint venture on development of Thar coal
There been number of feasibility reports about coal to oil . Its not what AQ and captian tells on TV . That project need a big amount to be completed while there is no assuerance that it will be successful.
Re: Australia offers joint venture on development of Thar coal
There been number of feasibility reports about coal to oil . Its not what AQ and captian tells on TV . That project need a big amount to be completed while there is no assuerance that it will be successful.
well if the government has carried out some feasibility with regards to that, they should tell the people about it. Pakistan is perhaps the only country which is using oil on such a big proportion.
Re: Australia offers joint venture on development of Thar coal
^ every one knows that but there are very powerful mafias in the shape of oil importers (LNG/LPG) mafias who don't want the country's dependence on these fuels reduced.
I'm sorry but using the excuse of these 'mafias' is way below par. You can't let criminals decide on national policy. We have an army of 600k plus 500k reserves.
NO EXCUSES.
Re: Australia offers joint venture on development of Thar coal
^ I know but the government lives on these mafias, why do you think IPP's (Kickbacks?) were installed in the first place when the government of that time knew that the country will not be able to sustain them in the future?
Re: Australia offers joint venture on development of Thar coal
India being a much bigger country economy wise is using oil for 4 % of its electricity generation where as we are using more than 61 %, faraq saaf zaahir hay.
Re: Australia offers joint venture on development of Thar coal
well if the government has carried out some feasibility with regards to that, they should tell the people about it. Pakistan is perhaps the only country which is using oil on such a big proportion.
What should they tell that those coal reserves are nothing or they dont hav money to experiment?dude you dont even hav money for ur gas pipe line from iran . Iran has done his job and waitin for u .since america is not happy with it who is gonna pay for it? Ur army chief went to rusia to ask for some mercy.
Re: Australia offers joint venture on development of Thar coal
According to this guy the costs for replacement of the old units will be quite high.Conversion to coal-fired power generation | DAWN.COM
**THE federal government plans to convert its oil/gas-based power stations to coal-fired plants since price of imported fuel oil is rapidly increasing, whereas supply of indigenous natural gas is falling.
The power sector is heavily dependent on residual fuel oils (RFO), and conversion to coal is seen as the only sustainable option.
The conversion aims to diversify fuel mix, improve thermal efficiency and lower electricity tariff.**
**The government plans to transform its old and inefficient gas-based and/or dual-fuel fired (natural gas and furnace oil) power stations to coal-fired power plants, of cumulative de-rated capacity of 2,605MW at a total cost of $1.18 billion.
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**In the first phase, Jamshoro power station of 675MW de-rated capacity and Guddu of 580MW de-rated capacity will be converted, while Muzaffargarh (of total 1,130MW), Multan (units 1,2 & 3 of total 120MW) and Faisalabad (units 1 & 2 of total 100MW) will be taken up in the second phase. Recently, the Asian Development Bank has agreed to extend $433 million for conversion-to-coal of Jamshoro and Guddu power stations.
**
**Jamshoro power station of 850MW installed capacity operates four units installed during early 1990s, one of 250MW and the other three of 200MW each. Unit-1, commissioned by the Japanese, is based on furnace oil, whereas the remaining three units supplied by the Chinese are dual fuel (natural gas or RFO) based units providing operational flexibility.
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**Due to restricted supply of natural gas, however, all three units are also being run only on RFO for quite some time.
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Guddu power station has a total installed capacity of 640MW. Its units 1& 2, each of 110MW installed capacity based on natural gas, were commissioned in 1974 and now have available capacity of 50MW each due to obsolescence.
**Units 3 & 4, each of 210MW installed capacity dual fuel fired, which were commissioned in 1980s, have at present available capacity of 110MW each. Thus, the de-rated 580MW plant has available capacity of only 320MW. These two power plants will be coal-converted with the objective of regaining their dependable capacity to the level of about 700MW. Advanced coal conversion technologies will be adopted.
**
Some of the existing in-plant equipment will be retrofitted, modifications made in auxiliary equipment/components and major overhauls undertaken. As boiler is the most important component of a coal-fired power plant, the existing oil-fired boilers at Jamshoro will be replaced with 1x400MW supercritical coal-fired steam generator at a cost of $740 million.
In case of Guddu power station, which is characterised with supply of natural gas from the nearby Mari and Kandhkot gas-fields, all existing equipment (turbine, boiler and generator) will be replaced. Existing boilers will be replaced with 1x300MW supercritical steam generator.
Currently, Environmental Impact Assessment (EIA) reports are being prepared to address contamination issues and impacts of related wastes, which would follow detailed technical and economic feasibility studies for conversion-to-coal project.
Apparently, conversion-to-coal is a positive measure, but it is not likely to achieve desired results for a number of reasons.
First, the proposed conversion is based on imported coal, meaning we will continue to have dependence on imported fuel, and fuel security will not be attained. Second, estimated capital cost of conversion is too high, around $618 per-kilowatt which is half the cost for a new green-field coal-fired power project.
Major coal handling infrastructure is required, besides infrastructure for transportation, storage of coal and handling/disposal of ash, notwithstanding site restrictions. For the purpose of developing in-plant infrastructure, acquisition and use of additional 100 acres land is required at Jamshoro site, which involves displacement/resettlement of population. Also, O&M costs of a coal-fired power plant are comparatively much higher than oil/gas.
Third, international prices of thermal coal (12,000 BTU/lb) has remained erratic in recent years — $141.43 per metric ton FOB in February 2008 aginst $74.30 per ton in August 2007 and $124.18 per ton in January 2012. It is constantly and steadily increasing again due to recent high demand of coal in Asia for power generation. Therefore, the generation cost will be higher than anticipated, and the targeted 50 per cent reduction in electricity tariff is not foreseen.
As supercritical steam generator technology has not been introduced in Pakistan, its acquisition, assimilation and developing expertise by plant operators will entail significant time.
China and India first mastered clean coal combustion technology, developed the machinery locally and then constructed coal-fired power plants.
Environmental degradation will be another sensitive issue since most of these power stations are located in major cities. Project completion will take 36 to 48 months, if at all re-commissioned without delays, and there would be colossal loss during this period of about 960MW electricity a day that could be available from these plants at present.
Perhaps, the least-cost and most feasible solution is to undertake rehabilitation and refurbishment of existing oil/gas-based power plants for which plans were underway till recently with the help of the USAID, and, if government claims are to be believed, imported gas will also be available in near future.
Pakistan may however establish new mine-mouth coal-fired power plants using indigenous coal. If development of Thar coal takes time, coal from developed coalfields like Lakhra, Sonda-Jherruk (Sindh) and Chamlang (Balochistan) could be utilised for power generation.
(Engr Hussain Ahmad Siddiqui is former Chairman of State Engineering Corporation)
Re: Australia offers joint venture on development of Thar coal
What should they tell that those coal reserves are nothing or they dont hav money to experiment?dude you dont even hav money for ur gas pipe line from iran . Iran has done his job and waitin for u .since america is not happy with it who is gonna pay for it? Ur army chief went to rusia to ask for some mercy.
What ever amount the government will spend in converting from oil to coal will still be less than the billions the government has paid during the past four years and the circular debt (and hence electricity crisis) is still there.
Re: Australia offers joint venture on development of Thar coal
Have a read of the IMF report:-
Re: Australia offers joint venture on development of Thar coal
All thermal plants to run on Thar coal: PM | DAWN.COM
Govt to convert oil-fired plants to coal – The Express Tribune
$1.14b ADB loan soon for conversion of power plants into coalfield ones](Pakistan Observer - Latest News, Pakistan News, and World News)
**ISLAMABAD - The Pakistan Economy Watch (PEW) on Sunday lauded the landmark policy decision of the federal government to use Thar coal for coal-based power generation and said all conversions of existing as well as construction of new power projects will be designed on Thar Coal specifications.
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The strategic decision is appropriate because prices of imported oil will never come down to reasonable level as gas supply from Iran and Turkmenistan remains uncertain while reserves of native natural gas are depleting, it said.
**President PEW Dr Murtaza Mughal said Pakistan’s energy mix was far from balanced; the power sector was heavily dependent on costly fuel which was among the reasons behind circular debt and high electricity tariff. The government should adopt advanced coal conversion technology to transform inefficient gas-based and dual-fuel fired power plants to coal-fired power plants, he said.
**
Murtaza Mughal said that government should expedite Environmental Impact Assessment reports and that detailed technical and economic feasibility studies were needed for conversion. He said that government announcement to use Thar coal for coal-based power generation would help cut fuel import bill, create thousands of jobs and achieve energy security.
“Government should also make a plan to develop skilled people who can deal with clean coal combustion technology and develop related machinery locally in few years,” Dr Mughal demanded. He said that government should arrange more funds to safeguard the country’s frail power structure and the rights of consumers who needed protection from price spikes as well as power cuts.
Dr Mughal said that government should do more to encourage wind farms and try building latest nuclear power stations to meet growing energy requirements and ensure sustainable socio-economic development of the country.
**“There is no harm in using imported coal for few years until country develop skills and infrastructure to utilize Thar coal,” the PEW president observed.
**
Dr Mughal remarked in the end that some local and foreign elements who did not want to see a prosperous Pakistan would always resist the government’s decision on different grounds.
Re: Australia offers joint venture on development of Thar coal
Thar coal: facts and fiction | DAWN.COM
**CONTROVERSY has brewed up on the use of Thar coal as a fuel for our power generation needs instead of HFO and natural gas.
**
Coal has the following basic values for consideration: volatile matter, which is the igniter for the fixed carbon in the coal, the ash content, the sulphur content and, lastly, the water content.
I agree that water within the coal would soon evaporate in the hot season at Thar and turn the coal to powder and dust.
The volatile matter will evaporate as well and reduce the thermal value by at least 10 per cent.
Assuming, the coal reaches the power plant, about two million gallons a day of fresh sweet water will be needed to keep it cool for a seven-day storage of a 300 MWe plant.
The pulverised coal and FCB Technology have combustion temperatures in excess of 1200 C and thus produce NoX & SoX at a level which would be extremely harmful to humans and vegetation, besides much lower combustion efficiencies.
**Considering all facts, the only solution is to convert the coal to coal water slurry — a process now perfected by Zheijang University in China and in use in over 100 locations — at the mine and transport the slurry to Sindh’s and Punjab’s existing and new power plants by pipeline, thus saving road from transporting the fuel.
**
CWS boilers have a combustion efficiency of 99.6 per cent and produce less than 350 mg/m3 of gas volume of NoX, which has to be brought down to less than 100 mg/m3 to make it safe for human population.
The treatment cost for CWS is about 10 per cent as compared to PC and FCB designs and will play a major role in determining the cost of power to the end consumer.
**On a fast track basis — in three to five years — Pakistan’s entire power generation of steam-based power plants can be on CWS, saving the nation over $10 billion annually at current oil prices.
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**A visionary approach can wipe out Pakistan’s entire debt in 10 years. However, if we do not move fast, a $200 a barrel of oil price will bankrupt Pakistan and huge civil unrest will prevail.
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**The CWS technology has reached a level where a plasma gasifier can convert the coal to high BTU brown gas for use in gas turbines and soon in large stationary engines.
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**A careful and urgent approach is needed by the government which has made the right decision to use the local coal for our power needs.
**
**Zhiyang University and its partner Ching Tai New Energy Development will be happy to assist the government, people of Pakistan and the sponsors and owners of power plants to use clean coal technology.
**
MIAN SUHAIL HUSAIN
*Director, Ching Tai New Energy *
Pakistan Ltd
Karachi
Re: Australia offers joint venture on development of Thar coal
The counrtry`s present generation capacity after adjusting for de-commissioned plants, de-rated machines and those on scheduled and forced outages for both Pepco and the KESC is 16,000 MW. As this figure also contains 6440 MW of hydro-generation, the rest 9,500 MW pertains to thermal generation through refined furnace oil (RFO) and gas.
The cost per unit produced through oil is normally beyond Rs11 per unit while electricity produced through gas costs the Pepco and KESC roughly Rs3.35 per unit. The 780 mmcfd of gas received by public sector thermal plants (Gencos) and Kapco (an IPP) in 2001-02 has gone down to a paltry 340 mmcfd or so which was even lower during the recent floods. The machines have to be necessarily convert over to the costly RFO. This has spiralled the cost of electricity and its tariff.
In other words, gas as a fuel must come back to the power-sector otherwise the cost escalation will continue. More so, when pundits are predicting a $100 barrel of oil by next year and the government has increased the tariff by an average of 70 per cent.
But as the gas production is on a diminishing scale and LNG or gas imports may not be around the corner, diversion of gas is not considered to be a long-term solution. Consequently, diversion of gas can be for the short-term during which some other option has to be exercised.
Experts consider the solution to be in the complete conversion of the RFO based plants to coal of both the imported and the indigenous varieties. So as to ward off any issues of environmental degradation or pollution putting a lid on the conversion, clean coal technologies would have to be attracted thus assuring the smallest possible carbon foot print.
Additionally, downstream industries to gainfully use the ash etc. will also have to be set up. The best way is to use imported coal first, in a phased programme to be supplemented by the local varieties i.e. both the bituminous and the lignite coal. No new IPP should be inducted other than for coal or hydro-based power projects.
Small IPPs, in the process of being inducted in the Discos, can be an exception especially when these would be catering to a different niche altogether. Moreover, these would also be looking forward to use alternate fuels like municipal waste, agriculture waste and solar energy.
What will be the process for converting the existing Gencos and the IPPs to coal except for the gas turbines, which have to be ensured gas supplies in any case, and how would it all be financed? Conversion to coal as fuel in place of the cost prohibitive RFO is a cumbersome process and will also entail huge finances.
However, the raw cost of producing electricity will fall by a hefty Rs5 per unit or by at least up to 50 per cent. If this option is exercised along with the plans to re-habilitate the Gencos, which can yield about 1200 MW of lost power, the saving per unit can further be improved to the benefit of the customer.
Re: Australia offers joint venture on development of Thar coal
You posting numerous articles doesnt help. Information overload? Why don't you just post links. Therefore, if need be we can check them.
Thanks.
Re: Australia offers joint venture on development of Thar coal
Thanks for that but what specifically do you want to discuss with regards to the report?