Attributes of Allah - The Belief Of True Salaf

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Attributes of Allah - The Belief Of True Salaf

No guppy, you just don’t want to open your eyes to see.

Dear brothers,
After reporting from the books of Ibn Taymiah the scans of his sayings claiming that Allah is a body, and guppy went ahead and said no, he only said that salaf did not deny that attribute to Allah, I showed that both ignorantly are in denial. Ibn Taymiah and Guppy.

Ibn Taymiah claimed that Salaf did not deny the attribute of “jism - body” to Allah. He lied.

Abu Ja^far at*Tahawiyy, who was born in the year 237 after Hijrah, said in his book: “Allah is supremely clear of all boundaries, extremes, sides, organs and instruments. The six directions do not contain Him–these are attributed to all created things.” Such is the saying of Imam Abu Ja^far who is among the heads of as-Salaf. He explicitly stated that Allah is clear of being contained by the six directions. The six directions are above, below, in front of, behind, right, and left.

This was among many other proofs where Salaf proved that such attributes cannot be attributed to Allah.

Guppy defends Ibn Taymiah interperting his saying “la binafiy wal ithbat” that Ibn Taymiah is only saying they did not deny the term “Jism” or the like, and that’s a lie. All salaf deny such attributes from Allah.

Yet he still said no he said salaf did not deny that attribute from Allah. That’s not true as we saw from the Tahawiy saying, who was the head of the salaf scholars. Also Imam Ahmad the head of the Hanbali school, and the great true salafi scholar said the one who claims that Allah is a “Jism” is a kafir. This saying for Imam Ahmad was reported by the head of the salafi scholars of his time in Baghdad Abul-Fadl at-Tamimi.

Hence, True salaf DID deny “Jism” to Allah. And the one who says NO, is agreeing with the Christians and Jews in talking about God as they say: Our holy father created earths and heavens in six days, and on the seventh day sat on the throne to rest.

Now, Ibn Taymiah also shows again that he attributes “Jism – body” to Allah in another book where he claims that “Allah sits (Yajlis) on the throne (^arsh) and seats Muhammad beside him”. This is kufur. And in that saying Ibn Taymiah again shows that his belief is as the belief of the Jews. Wal-^iyathu Billah from such belifs.

Ibn Taymiah brothers was imprisoned four times and he died in prison because of these beliefs. And for the one who wants read more, let him read the letter of Ibn Qalwoon.

So:
Whoever claims that Allah is a body, is kufur because he likened Allah to the creations. Allah said in the ayah that means: “Absolutely nothing resembles Allah”.

Ibn Taymiah Said Allah is a body, some claim he only said Salaf scholars did not deny the body to Allah, and both are misguidance. Also Ibn Taymiah said Allah sits and Prophet Muhammad sits beside Allah on throne. Also he said: Hellfire does not terminate, as I showed in the scans, and mentioned that Albani, another wahabi leader, said “We wish he did not say it”. Ibn Taymiah also claimed that the world is eternal as many scholars of HIS time confirmed that to him. He also said “if one travels to visit the grave of Prophet Muhammad commits a large sin”. He also said “If one asked Allah by the virtue of a prophet or Walliy commits shirk”. However, he does say in one of his books named “al-Kalim at-Tayib” mentioned a hadith of a companion that said “Ya Muhammad” and Allah cured him from his polarization from his leg. And many other deviant sayings which reached up to 60 Islamic Issues in which he deviated from Ijma^, all unanimous agreement of Muslims.

So after all this, why should one shove his nose and ears into such person? When we have great scholars such as Abu Hanifah, Shafi^iy, Malik and Ahmad ibn Hanbal?

I ask Allah to guide us to the righteous path and keep us steadfast on alsunna of the Prophet sallallahu alayhi wa sallam.

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Re: Attributes of Allah - The Belief Of True Salaf

to repeat...

... your problem is that you are latching on to a single line from here and there and building your whole argument around it... think about it: The very same salaf said (and i've quoted this from Ibn Taymiyya more than once) that describing Allah as having a body is:

  • "newly invented"; and

  • "that those who spoke about such things were innovators and at length they [the salaf] censured them"

... so Ibn Taymiyya confirmed that the salaf censured anyone who spoke about Allah as a body (and other such terms) and this suffices to show that they deemed it entirely impermissible... and likewise Ibn Taymiyya said in more than one of his works, including the above citations, that describing Allah as a body is an innovated practice...

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Re: Attributes of Allah - The Belief Of True Salaf

[quote]
At least admit that he clearly claimed that the salaf never denied that!.
That's why he went ahead in his book Majmoo^ al-Fatawa and said "Allah sits on the throne and seats Muhammad by him" wal-^iyathubillah.
[/quote]

If what you were saying in interperting his words, was true, then in the end He claimed that salaf did not deny that term right..? he claimed that salaf said (and his arabic term was) "La binafi wala Ithbat"? He lied. That's a lie. the ture belief of the salaf is firmly clear Allah from jism or other organs.

Salaf did deny that term and any terms like it. The true belief is: Allah does not resemble his creations, He is not a body, he is clear from organs, or parts, unlike what Ibn Taymiah and his students say such as Ibn Baz and Ibn Uthaymeen.

Yet you'll never stop to defend this imprisoned man who opposed Ahlus-Sunnah Ijam^ in over 60 issues.

Ibn Taymiah also shows again that he attributes “Jism – body” to Allah in another book where he claims that “Allah sits (Yajlis) on the throne (^arsh) and seats Muhammad beside him”. This is kufur. And in that saying Ibn Taymiah again shows that his belief is as the belief of the Jews. Wal-^iyathu Billah from such belifs.

Sitting = in Arabic means something that has a body and folds is what sits. Look up in "An-Nahr al-Mad" or any linguist. So by his claim, he does attribute the body to Allah in his other books as well.

Hence Surat Taha, ayah 5, in the Qur'an, clearly does not mean that Allah sits on the throne or that Allah is firmly established on the throne. In the Arabic language, the word istawa has fifteen (15) different meanings, among of which are to sit, to subjugate, to protect, to conquer, and to preserve. Based on what we have covered so far it is clear that it is blasphemous to apply the meaning 'to sit' to Allah. However the terms to preserve and to subjugate are in compliance with the Religion and the language. And those so-called translations of al-Quran that referred to the term "Istawa" to "Sits" or "Sat"or "Established himself firmly on the throne" contradict Arabic rules, and Islamic bases. Bewarned from such translations and such attribues, Allah is almighty clear from the sitting, movement, size, shape, form or change.

Allah is great.

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Re: Attributes of Allah - The Belief Of True Salaf

*A philosophical undertaking of the above statement (might not have much to do with the original discussion):
*
Let’s see. So absolutely NOTHING resembles Allah. Let’s look at this from a different aspect. If nothing resembles Allah and Allah resembles nothing, then nothingness can be a metaphor for God. Where nothing refers to **opposite **of ‘everything possibly conceivable in our universe, even things humans currently cannot conceive’. To say God is Nothing would not be an invalid statement. I’m not saying God does not exist. But that God is Nothing.
Can any of you argue against this? After all, if you disagree, then you would have to be claiming God is Something. Then what is that something and how do you know? To say that that Something is not in our universe is quite invalid, because it is not “something” but its “nothing” and you have no way to know of it so how can you claim its existence.

Indeed, what IS existence? How can God exist. What does that even mean. God is not bound by time or space or anything infact. God is boundless. So is nothingness. Nothing bounds nothingness.

However, existense bounding God? Can God not exist by choice? Or does God not exist or not not exist, but just IS (accept it..move on…live ur life).

There’s also this issue of how God can “act” or make a choice. How can creation be created, if that would require the Initial State to be different from Intial State + 1; and we all know that God is unchanging … then how did the states change?

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Re: Attributes of Allah - The Belief Of True Salaf

NO ate 2 ate, that's not the case.
God Exists, and HIS attributes do not resemble any of the creations.

That's what it means.
Allah created everything.

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Re: Attributes of Allah - The Belief Of True Salaf

Allah has attributes of perfection. Allah is clear from any imperfection. Imperfection attributes that do not befit Allah are such as: weakness, needness of others, change, place, develompment, body, soul, attributes of creations or the like. Allah is clear from all of that.

The scholars of Islam asserted from the Qur'an and Hadith that there are certain attributes that every accountable person must know.

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Re: Attributes of Allah - The Belief Of True Salaf

Allah is attributed with:

Existence : It is obligatory to believe that Allah exists and that there is no doubt in His Existence.He exists without a place.Time does not lapse on Allah.

Oneness : Allah is One without any partners.He is One in His Self, His Attributes, and His Actions.

Eter nity: Allah is Eternal; there is no beginning to His Existence.He has existed since before the creation.

Everlastingness : Allah is Everlasting; His existence does not come to an end.He does not perish.

Non-neediness of others : Allah does not need any of His creations and they are all in need of Him.

Power : Allah has Power over everything.

Will : Everything that occurs in this world is by the Will of Allah.

Knowledge : Allah knows about all things before they occur.

Hearing : Allah hears all what is hearable, without an ear or any other organ.

Sight : Allah sees all what is seeable, without a pupil or any other organ.

Life : Allah is alive without a soul, skin, or heart.His Life is not similar to ours.He is alive and does not die.

Speech : Allah's Speech (Kalam) is without a tongue or lip.His Speech is not in a language, Arabic or anything else.His Speech does not resemble the speech of the humans.

Non-resemblance to the creations : Allah does not resemble the creations.

Allah knows best.

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Re: Attributes of Allah - The Belief Of True Salaf

Existence : It is obligatory to believe that Allah exists and that there is no doubt in His Existence.He exists without a place.Time does not lapse on Allah.

What is belief? Is it just acceptance of a concept to fulfill a void in our reasoning? Belief is like an axiom. By believing something you already state that it is not something provable or understandable but your taking it to fulfill some other purpose. So, the question i have is that why is believing in God such a big deal? How can it be claimed that there is no doubt..it is an axiom after all..and all axioms can be doubted..because they are assertions and not something deduced within a framework. Essentially, axioms are the basis of a framework and to doubt anything, you would have to doubt it within a framework of reasoning (since everything can be broken down into axioms). But the choice of the intial axioms is really not dependent on any framework. So why accept the God axiom?

You are saying God exists without a place and without time. Nothing also exists without space and time. You (or theology) are asserting *existance **onto something that does not exist in our understanding of the word. How can we even begin to use human language to explain God? To say God exists is really not an intelligible statement. Humans have a vague concept of what it means, but is it even saying *anything? The only reason we relate to that concept is because we have an intrinsice experience of existance (consciousness, awareness of space and time). But when you say that God is not similar to that experience (God resembles nothing in our universe..so that may even include consciousness in addition to space/time)..and yet exists..it totally defies the use of the word. Essentialy, no one in this world really knows what it means that God exists, since how are you supposed to use the noun God and attribute a word like "exists" to it when God is not within the framework of the universe.

  • Oneness : Allah is One without any partners.He is One in His Self, His Attributes, and His Actions.
  • Again, it makes not much sense to say God is (insert limitation). God is by religions own definition not bounded, so to say God is one or multiple can be quite incoherent. Simply because it is claiming that God is a singular or multiple entity. But, we don't even know if God can be qualified as an "entity". Entity's are concepts of beings in this universe. Can we say God is a being? Once again, we get bogged down in our extending human literary metaphors to something that we have no idea of. Yes, to say God has no partners makes sense, because to say God has partners completely brings Him INTO our framework..and nullifies the conditions that make Him God*.

*Note: according to Islam that is; if the framework was one where God IS the framework..then that changes things because u can use the environment to describe God (something like hinduism, buddhism and certain forms of mysticism i suppose)
*
Eternity: Allah is Eternal; there is no beginning to His Existence.He has existed since before the creation. *

Now, attributes like this are extensions of human experiences. We have limited existance (or such is our belief) on earth and from there we make a hyperbole of "eternal". But really, God is not eternal, its just that by definition time is within the framework of reality, and God is not in reality, so time cannot be attributed to God. Hence, its not an attribute as a lack of an attribute. Which is what God would be: non-attributed (yes..im sure u can argue that that is an attribute in itself..but i think set theory takes care of that). I don't understand how you can attribute something to a God who "resembles nothing".

If the universe didn't exist, the above statement would not make much sense. Given the universe exists, it still doesn't make too much sense. For one, we don't KNOW God exists. We can only believe He does. Actually, I'm not sure knowledge even is a concrete subject, its more of a collection of belief's that have at their roots unprovable axioms.

  • Everlastingness : Allah is Everlasting; His existence does not come to an end.He does not perish.

  • Well, yea, we cannot attribute human charactersitic to God..so why even existance to begin with? Once again, we only understand existance from a human perspective..what does it even mean when we apply it to God, who we believe to have no shape, form, change...ANYTHING. According to religion, he talks, thinks and acts....but...those are human metaphors...how can that be done if you don't change. To create the universe without changing anything! If only God existed before creation, and then creation popped up..that would be a change in the state of God. yup..all im saying is that I don't understand and its actually what makes me believe in God. Ahahaha. Yes, paradoxical no?

  • Non-neediness of others : Allah does not need any of His creations and they are all in need of Him. *

Right. This point is pretty interesting. I would think that something like this should be part of God's definition (i.e. its not God that we know, but we are using human language to produce a metaphor of God). however, if God does not need anything, it certainly brings up questions as to why he asks things of us. God would therefore not need us to believe in Him or do 'good'. I guess God doesn't need us to do all that..but its just what He's making us do. Ofcourse, this point also anthropomorphizes God. Now don't take offense..but try to think of the point I'm making without thinking I'm insulting God. What need does a particle have? Let's extend that to a rock. Now i'm not stating God is like either of these two material things, but that our conception of God from the get go assumes Him as a very isolated, abstract, unaffected entity. Yes, all creation doesn't need a rock or particle. But, someone COULD say that matter won't exist without a particle, hence its "needed" by everything to exist in the way it exists. However, i understand what it means to say that everything needs God, given that religion states He sustains everything and brought everything to BE..which is different from the particle's role.

But....again.."need" only occurs when something 'exists' to survive. Its a human word to describe what we require to survive. But that is if 'surviving' is our goal. If our goal was to die, then we would need nothing. Things that don't have life (or the will to sustain it) have no need. So, to ascribe this to God, doesn't make much sense, as we don't know what constitutes God. And to say we *need *God is only an extension of the **belief **that God created everything (i.e.we need what God created to survive..air, water, food, companionship...so the lowest common denominator is God). Its quite circular is all im saying

  • Power : Allah has Power over everything. *
  • Will : Everything that occurs in this world is by the Will of Allah.

  • I can't deny any of this. Its all belief. Its simply extensions of human experience.

  • Knowledge : Allah knows about all things before they occur. *
    *Hearing : Allah hears all what is hearable, without an ear or any other organ. *

  • Sight : Allah sees all what is seeable, without a pupil or any other organ.* *
    Life : Allah is alive without a soul, skin, or heart.His Life is not similar to ours.He is alive and does not die.
    ** Speech : Allah's Speech (Kalam) is without a tongue or lip.His Speech is not in a language, Arabic or anything else.His Speech does not resemble the speech of the humans. *

So now we're giving God human characteristics without the baggage of having to claim he is human! No brain, ears, tongue or eyes..but all the functionality of thinking, having emotions, hearing, seeing, talking (but all unlike humans somehow). And even LIFE (what is life...that we can attribute it to something that is like nothing?). Didn't someone say God is like nothing in this universe? Yet humans are made quite in His image...we share so many attributes..that just have physical counter parts. Isn't God very much like a human? Or is it that we have attributed humanity to an abstract entity which we cannot understand, simply so we can relate to it?

Do you not see that these are quite confusing and mind bending concepts for a creation with the feeble mind of a human? An entity exists that does not take up space or time, it never changes (but how can it if we don't know what it is)..and yet its able to know, see, hear and a plethora of other human abilities taken to the max. How can we be REQUIRED to believe this? What kind of a test is this? According to religion, God has given us this mind with reason and logic, and yet everything about God is contrary to this.

It makes more sense to THIS feeble human mind that God is experienced and simply cannot be communicated to others without severe loss of information. Which is where the use of metaphors comes in...but ppl take them literaly. But i simply do not get how some humans eternity lies in the balance based on them accepting such postulates about God. Its very easy to accept if you already believe (remember by framework and axiom rant in the beginning) but for someone who has not had a personal experience...to come to this stuff logically is really unimaginable.

*Non-resemblance to the creations : Allah does not resemble the creations.

*Hm..then why do we resemble God? Does God resemble us in some way, not others...or completely NOTHING about the universe has any relation to what God IS?

828

wt,s u wanat to
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Re: Attributes of Allah - The Belief Of True Salaf

You dont' understand.
Allah does not change.

Allah existed before time and place.
Allah existed before humans, angels, and animals.
Allah existed before bodies, soft and thick bodies, before air, space..
Allah existed before directions and boundaries.

Allah created everything.
Allah is as he was eternally without a place, without a 'how'.

Imam al-Hafidh al-Bayhaqiyy said in his book, Al-Asma'u was-Sifat, on page 400: *".... What was mentioned towards the end of the hadith is an indication of denying Allah has a place and denying the slave is alike to Allah, wherever he was in proximity or remoteness. Allah, the Exalted, is adh*Dhahir--hence, it is valid to know about Him by proofs. Allah is al-Batin--hence, it is invalid that He would be in a place." *

He also said: "Some of our companions used as a proof to refute the place to Allah the saying of the Prophet, sallallahu ^alayhi wa sallam : 'You are adh-Dhahir and there is nothing above You, and You are al-Batin and there is nothing underneath You.' Therefore, if there is nothing above Him and nothing underneath Him, He is not in a place."

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Re: Attributes of Allah - The Belief Of True Salaf

Abu Ja^far at-Tahawiyy, who was born in the year 237 after Hijrah, and was one of the Heads of Great Salaf wrote a book called Al-^Aqidah at-Tahawiyyah.

He mentioned that the content of his book is an elucidation of the creed of Ahl as-Sunnah wal Jama^ah, which is the creed of Imam Abu Hanifah, who died in the year 150 after al-Hijrah, and his two companions, Imam Abu Yusuf al-Qadi and Imam Muhammad Ibn al-Hasan ash-Shaybaniyy and others.

He said in his book:

[quote]

"Allah is supremely clear of all boundaries, extremes, sides, organs and instruments. The six directions do not contain Him--these are attributed to all created things."

Such is the saying of Imam Abu Ja^far who is among the heads of as-Salaf. He explicitly stated that Allah is clear of being contained by the six directions. The six directions are above, below, in front of, behind, right, and left.

[/quote]

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Re: Attributes of Allah - The Belief Of True Salaf

Do you understand? You are regurgitating words…but do you actually understand what it means for someone or something to have no spatial existence, to not change, to be beyond time, to be unrepresentable..to be like nothing. can u even imagine nothingness that is sentient and conscious?
We don’t know God, we never will. So saying it is “valid to know about Him by proofs” is incorrect because we won’t KNOW God; we will only be asserting our belief in something we don’t and can’t comprehend. We are believing in certain lists of attributes..but we can neither verify them..nor can we experience them.

So don’t tell me “you don’t understand” as if im stupid. Because no one understands. Just understanding what meaning each word has doesn’t make you understand the reality of the sentence.

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Re: Attributes of Allah - The Belief Of True Salaf

Ok what yo ushould have said is:

No one knows the reality of the self of Allah, only Allah knows that.

However, we do and we must know that Allah has attributes. Perfect attribtues.
Allah exists unlike the existence of the creations.

Proof?
This universe is a proof on the existence of Allah. He is the creator for it, and the one who created such greatness is attributed with proper perfection, and is clear of imperfection.

Allah knows best.

my rasgulla!!!
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Re: Attributes of Allah - The Belief Of True Salaf

Please accept this cute little story, that really means a lot about how everything is a sign for the existance of the creator, Allah:

http://www.alsunna.org/gallery/details.php?image_id=631

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Re: Attributes of Allah - The Belief Of True Salaf

"No one knows the reality of the self of Allah, only Allah knows that."

yup..

"However, we do and we must know that Allah has attributes. Perfect attribtues.
Allah exists unlike the existence of the creations."

How can u cometo these conclusions? what is perfection...but a measurement of human abilities ? how can u apply these "attributes" to something that you cannot conceive? by stating God has attributes..u make God humanized!

To say God exists but not like how creation exists is actuually saying that God does not exist...its a clever way to fool ppl..but that seems to be what the statement says. because we have no conception of existance outside of our reality..and since God isn't in/out/through reality..and doesnt exist in this reality...then how can it be claimed that this entity has any attributes or existance that belong within our reality. If humans did not exist..would God still have those "qualities"? Wouldn't those qualities become meaningless ..like good/bad, time, honesty, mistakes/perfection, knowledge, power. The only reason why these ATTRIBUTES would have meaning is because God has created lesser beings with controlled and limited functions..and thus making it seem God as perfect. Its not really perfection..its just that God would have had to create lesser beings..because God can't create anything more powerful. But again...perfection is a human concept..how can we reduce God to such an anthromorphic attribute as perfection? Do u think rocks, trees, insects, dogs care about perfection? What would perfection mean to them....a stronger rock...tallest tree...immortal dog? Why are we even claiming God as perfection..because it assumes we KNOW God..or his attributes..and while it is all conjecture based upon our mirroring ourselves and the idea that angels have delivered messages to us that we interpret one way or another.

"Proof?
This universe is a proof on the existence of Allah. He is the creator for it, and the one who created such greatness is attributed with proper perfection, and is clear of imperfection."

The universe is proof that there is a universe that either was always there or was created (by any multitude of theories..scientific or theological)...it doesnt PROVE that there is a non-existing 'existing' God that has attributes A thru Z, and made a heaven n hell, and has human emotions and also dictated the Quran thru n angel and thought that this book was perfecy for humanity and there problems would be solved or else they face an eternity in hell fire being tortured worse than animals in a chemical test lab.

See its easy to use the word "proof" when your trying to claim your belief as true..but Muslims in general don't want to prove anything else...but put the rest that they feel uncomfortable facing on belief/faith (which they say is blind by defintion..but i dont think that has to be true). So..its proof by convenience...and most of the proof's have no rigourous logical foundations but more verbal leaps of common assumptions..

i watched the clip u linked..

my problem: u know that there is a possiblity of a tiger because; the dudes have SEEN a tiger before and so have millions of other people. It is a verified FACT...coupled with them being in a jungle which most likely holds such creatures. So..when they hear rustling..their brain doesn't think of creative answers like ..maybe its an alien from mars..maybe there's an invisible exotic flying squid. It thinks..what could have caused the rustle: air, falling branches, snake, monkey, tiger... BOOM..the minds protective part goes into action..adrenaline rushes thru the system..the worst option takes precedence even if its not true because our bodies are programmed for survival.

Seeing the mountains and clouds...may make me feel God is there..but there is no connection to the tiger analogy..because NO ONE has seen God...let alone have a reproducible and verified experience. God is elusive and hidden.

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Re: Attributes of Allah - The Belief Of True Salaf

[quote]
How can u cometo these conclusions? what is perfection...but a measurement of human abilities ? how can u apply these "attributes" to something that you cannot conceive? by stating God has attributes..u make God humanized!
[/quote]

Mental Proof:
Allah created this universe must be attribtued with attributes of perfection. If he had no attributes, that would not comply with sound mind. ONe of the attributes of Allah is Creator, he created everything. If that was not an attribute of perfection to him, than how would this universe be existent?

So, Allah is attributed with attributes of perfection. And all that we see from the creations are signs that Allah is great and powerfull.

Qur'anic Proof:

Allah in our Qur'an said: "Laysa kamithlihi shay' wa huwa as-sami^-ul-Basir"
And that means: "Nothing resembles Allah, and he is attributed with hearing and sight."

Allah hears and sees everything, unlike we hear and see. His attributes are perfect and clear from imperfection. Ours are not.

Simple.
Allah knows best.

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Re: Attributes of Allah - The Belief Of True Salaf

There's no rule of intelect that says: must see to believe in. The one who claims so is an ignorant.

If you are among those who claim so, than you need some essential clarifictions.

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Re: Attributes of Allah - The Belief Of True Salaf

i’m not saying that at all. i dont see how u can get that from my arguments. in fact im questioning the very basis of what a “belief” actually IS.

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Re: Attributes of Allah - The Belief Of True Salaf

Well.. a human attribute is “creator”. That does not automatically make it “perfect”. So hence, we relate God’s “attribute” from our human conception.

Actually..let’s try this line of thought for sake of argument: since the religion says that God is not representable within the universe..and “attributes” are a concept WITHIN the universe..then we should say that God neither lacks or has attributes..since that is a human concept. Hence it is not a logical statement to say either God has a Creator attribute or doesn’t have a Creator statement

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Re: Attributes of Allah - The Belief Of True Salaf

It varies on many different levels for every other religion…

For the average Muslim, the basic belief is, Allah is one and Mohammed :saw: is His Messenger…

For the Christian the basic belief is that Jesus is the son of god and hence a god unto himself…

For the Jew, the Basic belief is following the Talmudic law…

For the Hindu, it i whatever their belief is…

So, if you are asking a Muslim what a belief is, you must be specific about what…

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Re: Attributes of Allah - The Belief Of True Salaf

I am asking what belief IS..not what is believed. I know its a very fundamental question and im being vague. But so much weight is attached to "belief"..whereas it seems to me to just be an acceptance of a structure of propositions. This means that mathematics is also a system that is believed..because people have accepted its propositions. Similar with religion..a few or many propositions are put forth..and then these are accepted. How the acceptance takes place varies. Some require "logic" (that fit into a certain pre-programmed OR externally influenced framework)..other work on factors such as fear, convenience, tradition, hope.

But what does this mean..why is belief so integral to a person's supposed eternity after death? Why is the acceptance of certain propositions as "true" as a opposed to "false". ...regardless of how a person is in their life...make things so much different?