^
so that makes them eligible to be forgiven?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Anwaar Qureshi: *
^
so that makes them eligible to be forgiven?
[/QUOTE]
That makes us incapable of deciding their future after the Day of Judgement.
“Surely in disbelief are they who say that Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary.” [al-Maidah 5:17 and 72]
“Surely, disbelievers are those who said, ‘Allah is the third of the three [in a Trinity].” [al-Maidah 5:73]
“Those among the Children of Israel who disbelieved were cursed by the tongue of David and Jesus, son of Mary.” [al-Maidah 5:87]
“Those who disbelieve among the People of the Book and the idolaters will abide in the Fire of Hell.” [al-Bayyinah 98:6]
First a disclaimer: All I write is to the best of my knowledge and should not be subscribed to if even the slightest doubt is found.
Ata did a right thing by asking this question. A Muslim by design and purpose is supposed to lead a life free of sin whether intentional or unintentional. To go off on a whim by yourself that this is correct or that is correct is wrong no matter how good your intentions. Even if it is for the sake of Dawah. Islam dictates every aspect of life including relations with kith, kin and friends.
We are not Ahmedis and Ata did not ask Ahmedis this question. These are two different faiths. According to Ahmedism Mirza Sahib even refused to attend the funeral of his own son Fazl Ahmed who renounced his father as a fake prophet and forbade thereafter all Ahmedis to attend funerals of Muslims but allowed them to attend non-Muslim funerals.
Ahadith state that when the Christian king of Ethiopia Najashi died, the Holy Prophet :saw: offered ‘ghaibaana’ 4 rakaas funeral prayers for him. But then, he was the Prophet and we are not and he knew better what to do and what not. Also Najashi saved the lives of many Muslims when the initial batch of them fled to Ethiopia to seek asylum, so he was not an ordinary non-Muslim. He was the life-saver of Muslims.
As far as making dua for the non-Muslim is concerned, a Hadith states that the Holy Prophet :saw: made dua for his uncle, Abu Talib who died as a non-Muslim. When the companions asked him if he will be forgiven after the Prophet :saw:'s intercession, the Prophet :saw: replied that the most leniency that his uncle would be given was that on the day of resurrection, he would be placed in a fire ankle deep which would make his uncle’s brain boil.
Keeping this in mind and other Ahadith quoted in other posts and the absence of further elaborations on the subject there are certain things we can do and not do.
The funeral service is made up several parts. It includes things from visiting the family of the deceased, the last view of the deceased, preparation for burial, the religious services, the procession and the final burial. As a Muslim you can partake in some and in some you can’t.
As a Muslim you can partake in visiting the family of the deceased for consolation and to share their grief. You can take part in a non-Muslim’s funeral procession (if you happen to know him).
As a Muslim the parts you cannot take part in are the religious services as they are contrary to your beliefs and to partake in it them is tantamount to believing in them. You cannot partake in the burial services as stated in a Hadith, the burial places of the Mushrikeen and Kuffar are places where great trials and afflictions are meted out to people in the graves. Azab-e-qabar. You cannot take part in the burial preparations as well as it is different from yours as well.
Ata, I am glad you asked this question as it is important before taking any steps that those actions do not fall outside the category of Islam and do not shower disfavour of Allah :swt: upon yourself. Being cautious and going through life carefully is a mark of a wise man.
Don’t be cowed by all those people that used abusive or insulting remarks to exchange ideas and knowledge in this thread…These people discoursed in the only way in which they knew how to talk, that is how they were raised to be and that is how they are used to conversations…
Last a disclaimer: All the views that are in this post are mine and mine alone. In the presence of better and more authentic proofs, all I said is to be discarded…
W’AllahoAlam
Allah :swt: knows all and knows best and may He forgive me for any transgressions done in ignorance, Ameen…
These ayats are from the Quran. These are the words of Allah Ta'llah. Allah knows whats in the heart of each person. Allah can say these things. We don't know whats in the heart of a person. It is not our position to pass judgements.
Thats all I am saying.
We should be concerned about our own faith and our own actions and make sure we abide by all the commands of Allah. Whether Allah decides to throw a christian or a jew in hellfire or forgive them for a single good deed and put them in paradise is not our position to criticize or comment.
Lajawab: very well said:k:
Faisal Bhai:) : agreed.. just wanted to share one hadeeth on this subject and then end of argument 
“By the One in whose hand my soul is, no Jew or Christian of this community hears about me - that is from the community of people from the time of the Prophet (peace be upon him) until the Day of Judgment - and then does not follow me - or he said does not believe in what I brought - except that he is from the inhabitants of the Hell-fire.”
[Saheeh Muslim]
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Faisal: *
These ayats are from the Quran. These are the words of Allah Ta'llah. Allah knows whats in the heart of each person. Allah can say these things. We don't know whats in the heart of a person. It is not our position to pass judgements.
Thats all I am saying.
We should be concerned about our own faith and our own actions and make sure we abide by all the commands of Allah. *Whether Allah decides to throw a christian or a jew in hellfire or forgive them for a single good deed and put them in paradise is not our position to criticize or comment.
[/QUOTE]
*
I think we can criticise and comment too Faisal...It should be part of your knowledge...
**
And whoever seeks a religion other than Islam, it will not be accepted from him and he will be one of the losers in the Hereafter. (Quran, 3:85)
**
Anwaar bhai jaan.
There is a big difference between the knowledge of Allah Ta'llah or His messangers... and us. While Allah Ta'llah and His messengers can use the direst words to warn us against shirk and to make sure we stay on the right track, as I said again and again, it is not our position to pass similar judgements about other people, unless we claim to know what is in their hearts. Lajawab quoted some examples from the life of our Prophet. That should suffice.
Lajawab.. if you want to pass judgements on whether someone will go to Hell or Paradise... feel free. I, personally, find myself, incapable of looking into the hearts of people to ascertain their faiths or to put limits on the mercy of Allah.
And with this, I wrap up as well. :)
so if ALLAH says they are disbeleivers, we should not take it and understand it as “they are disbeleivers” well.. since all well done, may be we can discuss on this article too in some other thread may be …
Anwaar Bhai is right. Allah :swt: has already informed us in Quran that after Hazrat Muhammad :saw: was given Prophethood, no person can go into Jannah unless he complies to Islam. All previous shariahs have been invalidated, although each one of them was valid in its own time. I have come across such Ayah’s several times, will try to find them for you.
I was taught Eeman-e-Mufassil and Eeman-E-Mujammil by me Qari Sahib, when I was a child. When I grew up and began to understand it, I realized that this was the very basic criterion for any Muslim’s faith. They outline the following ‘essentials’ for someone to be a Muslim:
-
Faith in Allah( the includes all His siffaat),
angels,
holy books,
prophets of Allah (that includes the finality of the Hazrat Muhammad’s :saw: prophethood),the day of judgment, that Allah is 'Qadir' over all good and evil and that everyone will live again after dying in this world.
Have I missed out anything?
Mr. Lajawab,
You wrote
[QUOTE]
We are not Ahmedis and Ata did not ask Ahmedis this question. These are two different faiths. According to Ahmedism Mirza Sahib even refused to attend the funeral of his own son Fazl Ahmed who renounced his father as a fake prophet and forbade thereafter all Ahmedis to attend funerals of Muslims but allowed them to attend non-Muslim funerals.
[/QUOTE]
You are totaly wrong in your statement. Ahmadi Muslims are encouraged to offer Janaza prayer of a non-Ahmadi Muslim, if no other Muslim is available to do so. Lets take an example of a foreign country, where a non-Ahmadi Muslim has died and no other Muslim is available to offer Janaza prayer and to do the burial. In this case it is encouraged by our Jamaat that if we hear of any such case, we should offer Janaza prayer for that Muslim and do his burial.
Ahmadi Muslims can also offer janaza prayer for a non-ahmadi muslim even if janaza is already offered by other Muslims providing that Imam leading the Janaza prayer is also an Ahmadi.
but arent they also potential muslims?? u dont know when they will find guidence.. Allah says that He knows best who strays from His path and who receives guidance (6:117) n Prophet (PBUH) proclaimed in a Hadith that i fyou call someone kafir and he is not a kafir, then Allah will consider you as a kafir (Bukhari from Riyad-us-Saliheen No.1565)
its not like we get ajar for calling them kafir or saying that they will go to hell…so why not just stay on the safe side?? why waste time arguing that they WILL go to hell??
n ata bhai there is no proof we are forbiden from going to the funerals of non-muslims, its ur personal choice. In this ayah we are told to show kindness to them (Q60:8) n above all, Allah knows ur intentions
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ~Tikhi Jalebi~: *
but arent they also potential muslims?? u dont know when they will find guidence.. Allah says that He knows best who strays from His path and who receives guidance (6:117) n Prophet (PBUH) proclaimed in a Hadith that i fyou call someone kafir and he is not a kafir, then Allah will consider you as a kafir (Bukhari from Riyad-us-Saliheen No.1565)
its not like we get ajar for calling them kafir or saying that they will go to hell...so why not just stay on the safe side?? why waste time arguing that they WILL go to hell??
[/QUOTE]
Very good points, Tikhi Jalebi. Sometimes I feel we get too fixated on making sure we put down others, instead of focussing on our own amaal. You are spot on when you say "we don't get any ajar for calling them kafir" or debating whether they will go to jannah or jahannum. May we leave these decisions on our Creator, Allah Ta'llah... and instead focus on improving ourselves and calling non-muslims to the path of Islam through patience, knowledge and friendliness. Rest, Allah will provide guidance to them, and He surely is the Most Wise and Most Merciful.
Jazak Allah.
True and agreed… but your whole conversation is out of context of what we were talking about here… It started from “making a duaa for a deceased non-muslim.” After death, there is no potential left.. and I was just asking if it is really OK to make duaa since based on many scholars’ reasoning, it is not Correct.. but again as Lajawab pointed out duaa of Rasoolulah:saw: for his uncle…
and what I was refering to was this:
Aouzu Billahi minush Shaitaanir Rajeem
113. It is not for the Prophet, and those who believe, to pray for the forgiveness of idolaters even though they may be near of kin (to them) after it hath become clear that they are people of hell-fire.
114. The prayer of Abraham for the forgiveness of his father was only because of a promise he had promised him, but when it had become clear unto him that he (his father) was an enemy to Allah he (Abraham) disowned him. Lo! Abraham was soft of heart, long-suffering.
115. It was never Allah's (part) that He should send a folk astray after He had guided them until He had made clear unto them what they should avoid. Lo! Allah is Aware of all things.
(Surah At Tauba :9 )
but again, as Faisal bhai said, it is about mushrikeen (one who take partners with ALLAH - although Christians DO take two more partners with ALLAH, yet they are not termed as Polytheist ) not about ahl-e-kitaab.
Most appropriate answer :k:
While we are on the topic of funeral prayer for non-Muslims I’d like to share the following hadith with you guys:
Volume 2, Book 23, Number 359:
Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
When 'Abdullah bin Ubai (the chief of hypocrites) died, his son came to the Prophet and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Please give me your shirt to shroud him in it, offer his funeral prayer and ask for Allah's forgiveness for him." So Allah's Apostle (p.b.u.h) gave his shirt to him and said, "Inform me (When the funeral is ready) so that I may offer the funeral prayer." So, he informed him and when the Prophet intended to offer the funeral prayer, 'Umar took hold of his hand and said, "Has Allah not forbidden you to offer the funeral prayer for the hypocrites? The Prophet said, "I have been given the choice for Allah says: '**'Ask forgiveness for them or do not ask forgiveness for them; even if you ask forgiveness for them seventy times, Allah will not forgive them; this is because they disbelieve in Allah and His Messenger, and Allah does not guide the transgressing people. ''**(9.80). So the Prophet offered the funeral prayer and on that the revelation came: **''And never (O Muhammad) pray for one of them who dieth, nor stand by his grave. Lo! they disbelieved in Allah and His messenger, and they died while they were evil-doers.** '' (9. 84)
PS.
Abdullah bin 'ubai was “the chief of hypocrites” because he told Jews not to pay heed to the Prophet :saw:'s words and stopped them from accepting Islam.
I agree with you :k:
I’d like to share a verse from the holy quran to support your point..
**022.017 ***
YUSUFALI: Those who believe (in the Qur’an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians, Christians, Magians, and Polytheists,- Allah will judge between them on the Day of Judgment: for Allah is witness of all things.
PICKTHAL: Lo! those who believe (this revelation), and those who are Jews, and the Sabaeans and the Christians and the Magians and the idolaters - Lo! Allah will decide between them on the Day of Resurrection. Lo! Allah is Witness over all things.
SHAKIR: Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabeans and the Christians and the Magians and those who associate (others with Allah)-- surely Allah will decide between them on the day of resurrection; surely Allah is a witness over all things. *
Lajawab
u wrote the most balanced answer…well done…
Swera quoted mufti ibrahim desai sahib…he is very authentic aalim…so u may diaagree with him…but some fellow regarded him as unauthentic…which is an incorrect staement…
fateh
Just to comment on ur comments…
keep in mind…
1-mirza zafarullah did not participated in janazah of quaid e azam ,refer dr safdar mehmood
2-Mirzais dont regard muslims as muslims…any one not beliviung in mirza is non muslim in ur view…
consider all i wrote above as :topic: so dont start a new mirza muslim debate…
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bao bihari: *
Swera quoted mufti ibrahim desai sahib...he is very authentic aalim...so u may diaagree with him....but some fellow regarded him as unauthentic...which is an incorrect staement...
[/QUOTE]
doesn't he call shia Muslims kaafir?