Damn, these mullahs have taken away the soul and essence of Islam and turned into a tedious and suffocating wahabi cult they can shove down everyone’s throats.
After outlawing Islamic mysticism, they even want to kill the very soul and faith-based nature of Islam!
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
When it comes to religion, it is all based on presumptions, interpretations, opinions, biases, culture, assumptions, upbringing, etc.
Sorry my friend, Islamic culture is entirely different from other religions.
** If religion were nothing more than FACTS, then we would all be worshipping the same God in the same manner.**
What fact? You don't praise the same God as I do. I don't care whatever you believe. I just respect your way of reaching God. In Islam, it is clearly mention in the Suran Al-Kafroon :
Infidels, you have your own way, and we(Muslims) have our own
[/QUOTE]
pt nobody is forcing you live among infidals . you have a choice
you can live in pakistan where you dont have to deal with non-muslims.
i guess you chose to immigrate to another country.
Brother Hasnain
Jazak-Allah. Thank you for your time. I've always enjoyed reading your post in regard to religion, Islam.
You have been a great inspiration to me :)
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by rvikz: *
**pt nobody is forcing you live among infidals *
Did I say anything about me living among Non-Muslims?
you have a choice you can live in pakistan where you dont have to deal with non-muslims.
I know what choices I've. You don't have to tell me.
i guess you chose to immigrate to another country.
Try another guess.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *
Sorry my friend, Islamic culture is entirely different from other religions.
[/quote]
Sorry, but Islam (as different as it may be), is based on presumptions, interpretations, opinions, biases, culture, assumptions, upbringing, etc. Probably more so than most religions.
[quote]
What fact? You don't praise the same God as I do. I don't care whatever you believe. I just respect your way of reaching God. In Islam, it is clearly mention in the Suran Al-Kafroon :
Infidels, you have your own way, and we(Muslims) have our own
[/QUOTE]
Again, if Islam or any other religion were pure "fact", then we would all have experienced it, sort of like we all experience gravity (even infidels like me!)
<
See, everytime I am begining to think that you have some semblance of inteliigence you convincingly dash my hopes.
Who has said it is not a pure religion? It is just as pure as Christianity, Hinduism, Budhism, Voodooism, Shintoism and if I had my own, Chaltahai-ism.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Chaltahai: *
**See, everytime I am begining to think that you have some semblance of inteliigence you convincingly dash my hopes. *
Why would I do that?
*Who has said it is not a pure religion? It is just as pure as Christianity, Hinduism, Budhism, Voodooism, Shintoism and if I had my own, Chaltahai-ism. *
[/QUOTE]
ISLAM is Different from other Religions.
Therefore, its identity and purity would be quite different from other religions :)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *
But Islamic teachings are different than the teachings of other religion.
[/QUOTE]
You keep saying that. I don't deny that. All religions can make that claim however. This fact remains: Islam is based on presumptions, interpretations, opinions, biases, culture, assumptions, upbringing, etc. JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER RELIGION.
[QUOTE]
So, the infidels like you telling me Islam is not pure religion
[/quote]
I said nothing about it being "pure". Of course it's pure.
And remember, in Christianity and other religions, it is YOU that is the infidel.
Seminole
Man, you lost me :rotato:
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Chaltahai: *
We have gone down this road aplenty. In the end you will try to prove to me that Islam is word of god because it is written in the koran. I am going to tell you that just because it is written in the Koran it doesn't make it a word of god and that you are using the koran to validate the writings in the koran.Circular logic and all.
So in the end I will agree to that it's a faith issue. There is nothing wrong with you believing that islam is the ultimate religion, and me thinking that it's a mere pup in the world of great religions and god can manifest in many ways, Allah being one. TO assume otherwise will not take you to hell (because there is no such thing) but you might comeback as a cockroach as some of my buddhist and hindu friends think.
So the question of whether PT should go to the funeral is not whether by going he is diminishing the faith he has in Allah. But to find out whether he has faith in humanity. And for that Allah, ram, Buddha, Jesus, who ever and what ever you want to call him/her/it/them will be thankful.
[/QUOTE]
let me tell u a small story if u have the patience to listen......... and not be abusive?
An asian like u and me goes to a resturant for a pizza with some westerner friends.
When the Pizza is served the asian doesent get any fork and knife wher as the westerers do .......
One of the westerener looks at the asian and asks him a question?
(a and B)
a) Dont you people eat food with ur hands back home?
b) I heard that for most of ur meals are eaten by hand.
well...... some people(with extreemly low integrity) might not even notice
but what question do u think is appropriate?
Questions with rhetorics appended to them are not questions rather insinuiating remarks ........
Moral of the story is .... (if u dint get it)
Some of u who r here in this forum(u and ur friends) are not here to "Learn about Islam" rather to use sarcaysim in every possible way to get back.....I have a sheer hope that people in this forum do realise it .
PS Once again I would like to say that hatred is an acid that destroys the container that contains it .
Regards Poodi_..K......;)
As much as you’d like to think that Islam is unique, pure and special, it is still based on presumptions, interpretations, opinions, biases, culture, assumptions, upbringing, etc. JUST LIKE EVERY OTHER RELIGION.
WHAT PART OF THAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?
Do I need to type it for a 5th time?
I do not question that Islam is different from other religions, but it is an extremely BIASED view to claim that your religion is righteous and all others all false. Any narrow-mind can claim that (and does). And even if you do insist on that, the fact remains that Islam is based on presumptions, interpretations, opinions, biases, culture, assumptions, upbringing, etc.
If you are still lost, I cannot help…
Seminole
You state:
'the fact remains that Islam is based on presumptions, interpretations, opinions, biases, culture, assumptions, upbringing, etc'.
Can you please give specific examples on:
Presumptions
Interpretations
Opinions
Biases
Culture
Assumptions
Upbringing
Etc, Etc
using the Qur'aan as the source of reference for the time being.
We can argue that Islam has been here from day one, but that might derail your response.
However, in the meantime, I look forward to your response.
Don't forget that Judaism, Christianity and Islam(as you know it) belong to the same family. Just a helping hand for your response, in case you need it.
the way the MUSLIMS perform islam in their daily lives is based on..........
presumptions, interpretations, opinions, biases, culture,assumptions, upbringing, etc'.(of course this holds for any religion and any people)
although i agree with sholay that islam has been here from the very first day.........
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by sholay:
Can you please give specific examples on:
[/quote]
Presumptions - * Followers of a religion presume that their's is the correct one. They presume their scriptures are the word of God. They presume everthing, that's why it's called FAITH*
Interpretations - * All scriptures are based on intepretations and translations. That's why people of the same faith practice their religion differently.*
Opinions - * Religion is all about opinion. Sorry, but it's not a science with measurable facts. If it were, intelligent people everywhere would be of the same mindset.*
Biases - * Once someone is introduced to their religion (generally at birth), they become biased toward other people's beliefs, believing thier own faith is the only true religion.*
Culture - * Religion and culture are inseparable, particularly within Islam*
Assumptions - * Followers assume their scripture, God(s), beliefs, etc are true and all others false*
Upbringing - * A person's upbringing instills all these things in them - culture, assumptions, biases, opinions*
This goes for all religions, not just Islam.
Seminole
So do you accept that Christianity is also soley based on the formula you gave concerning Islam.
Namely:
'....presumptions, interpretations, opinions, biases, culture, assumptions, upbringing, etc'!
Seminole:
What you are saying is absolutely correct for an educated western mind. When someone identifies themselves as muslims (as you say culture and religion are intertwined in Islam) two things become critical for that identity. Without these the identity shatters.
These are: 1) Quran is the unambiuous Word of Allha. This is accepted as a FACT not a belief, not an assumption, but a fact as real as "I am alive". Many people do not like this certainity because it very quickly can lead to facism if not handled properly. 2) Muhammad is the Seal of the prophets, and his life, words, actions, beliefs are the actual implementation of Allha's commands. And hence are to be imitated to the best of one's abilities. Again this is taken as a FACT.
So in the west, when people say my faith, it means totally and completely different than when a convinced muslim says "my faith".
You may wonder about the sociology of people who have some doubts, or who are unsure. But that is whole another very interesting topic that provides insight into many a muslim societies.
I say this so you can understand that the definition you give above assume a cultural setting and the use of the english words in that setting. The answers you are getting are coming from a totally different environment and setting. Hence there might be some confusion.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sholay: *
Seminole
So do you accept that Christianity is also soley based on the formula you gave concerning Islam.
Namely:
'....presumptions, interpretations, opinions, biases, culture, assumptions, upbringing, etc'!
[/QUOTE]
For the 5th time: This goes for all religions, not just Islam.
OldLahori,
I understand what you are saying. It does not change the facts, however. Fundamentalist Christians and others also believe in their absolute truths. Everyone cannot be right. Muslims will have their reasons and proof and so will Christians.
No matter the amount of faith or belief you have in something does not make it a fact.