[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Seminole: *
When it comes to religion, it is all based on presumptions, interpretations, opinions, biases, culture, assumptions, upbringing, etc. If religion were nothing more than FACTS, then we would all be worshipping the same God in the same manner.
[/QUOTE]
Amen and Ram. Ram..Brother!
Dear Pakistani Tiger,
AsSalaamu 'alaykum wa rahmatullaah,
JazaakAllaah khair for your patience and please forgive me for the delayed response as i was trying to get a hold of our Shaikh Suhaib ibn Abdul Ghafaar Hassan whom i just heard is visiting Scotland. Anyway, i managed to speak to his son, who informed me that a similar question had recently been addressed to Shaikh ibn Abdullaah Al-Fowzaan. He said that it was permissible to pay respects and to give condolences to the non-Muslim families of the deceased, by asking them to be patient etc. But it is not permissible for us to ask Allaah for their forgiveness.
With respect to attending the funeral burial itself, then i was told that this question has been answered by the scholars in the past, many of whom have said that it is not permissible to attend such an event because the janaazah (funeral) is symbolic to any Religion. Thus Muslims should not attend the funeral burial of those who acknowledge and accept shirk, namely the heretics. Neither must we participate in any of the funeral rituals e.g. singing hyms etc.
I'm also posting a fatwa that i received minutes ago from a friend regarding the issue, which shall insha'Allaah prove usefull, wa jazaakallaahu khairun:
Question:
Attending a non-Muslim neighbor's funeral:
According to one hadith of the Prophet(pbuh)ralated by Tabarani regarding the rights neighbors it says: "The rights of the neighbor is that, when he is sick you visit him; when he dies, you go to his funeral;........"
Since this hadith is talking about neighbors and the neighbor can be a non-muslim, so is it permissible for the Muslim to attend a non-Muslim's funeral? Please shed light on this issue in accordance with the Qur'an and the Hadith.
Also this issue is very important for the new Muslims whose parents have not accepted Islam. Is it permissible to attend a funeral for the non-Muslim parents?
May Allah (swt) bless you. Ameen
*Answer: *
Praise be to Allaah.
It is permissible for a Muslim to attend a kaafir’s funeral if the kaafir is a relative, such as a mother, father, brother or other relative, but it is not permissible to join in the prayers or any other rites of their religion.
Zakariya al-Ansaari (may Allaah have mercy on him) said: “He may (i.e., it is allowed for the Muslim and is not makrooh) attend the funeral of a kaafir relative, because of the report narrated by Abu Dawood from ‘Ali who said, ‘When Abu Taalib died, I came to the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and said, ‘Your uncle, the misguided old man, has died.’ He said, ‘Go and bury him.’” (Reported by al-Nisaa'i, 190). Al-Adhraa’i said: “It is possible that this includes permission to attend the funeral of a wife or slave…”
As for visiting graves, in al-Majmoo’ it says: “The correct view is that this is permissible, and most scholars said this, because of the hadeeth narrated by Muslim in which the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: ‘I asked my Lord for permission to ask for forgiveness for my mother, and He did not give me permission; I asked Him for permission to visit her grave, and He gave me permission.’ It was reported that he also said: “Visit the graves, for they remind you of death.” (Asnaa al-Mataalib Sharh Rawd al-Taalib, part 1, Fasl: Mashiy al-Mashee’ li’l-Janaazah).
One of the differences between going to a Muslim’s funeral and going to a kaafir’s funeral is what was mentioned by al-Mirdaawi (may Allaah have mercy on him) in his book al-Insaaf, where he says in a footnote: “ ‘Those who are walking should walk in front of it [the coffin]’ means that this is better, and this is the madhhab, and this is the opinion of most of the scholars [of that madhhab]. The author of al-Ri’aayah said: “He may walk wherever he wishes.” Al-Musannif said in al-Kaafi: “Wherever he walks, it is OK… and his saying, ‘The riders [should travel] behind’ means that this is better. So there is no dispute in this matter. If he is riding, it is makrooh for him to ride in front.” This is what al-Majd said. What was meant by “the riders [should travel] behind” is that this is how it should be done in the case of a Muslim’s funeral, but if it is a kaafir’s funeral, then the rider may go in front, as mentioned previously.” (al-Insaaf, part 2, Kitaab al-Janaa’iz).
This is provided that attending the funeral does not involve doing anything haraam, such as listening to musical instruments and so on; in that case attending the funeral is haraam. And Allaah knows best.
Islam Q&A
Sheikh Muhammed Salih Al-Munajjid (www.islam-qa.com)
And Indeed, Allaah - subhaana wa ta'aala - knows best.
"No leaf falls except that He knows of it, and no rain drop forms except that He has willed it."
Seminole & Chaltahai,
Islaam is ONLY based on facts, and any opinions that are derived, are so from such facts.
If you differ, then kindly tell me, what is it about Islaam that you think is either not based on facts, or is *not * derived from facts?
&peace
"no leaf falls except that He knows of it, and no rain drop forms except that He has willed it."
Hasnain: Correction, Islam is based on faith and the spirit of the message from your god allah. Just as all great religions are.
well “chalti hai” in ur faith sita was unmaried and had a relationship with ram…was that even great .
Regards to u know who:hula:
PT, I hope that the "enlightened" answer you were looking for.
Is that what "religion" is all about? Separating humanity (we are ALL ONE under God) based on different beliefs? Implying that the suffering and loss of a non-believer's loved one is any less than one of your own?
Does one really need to intensely read and study centuries-old rules, blindly follow scholars and fatwas to tell him if it is ok to express sorrow, sympathy and support for a fellow human being? It is my belief that it is arrogant, narrow-minded and self-righteous to imply that respect should be withheld from people with different religous orientation.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Hasnain: *
Seminole & Chaltahai,
Islaam is ONLY based on facts, and any opinions that are derived, are so from such facts.
[/QUOTE]
Followers of EVERY faith on earth could say the same thing about their own religion.
Does one really need to intensely read and study centuries-old rules, blindly follow scholars and fatwas to tell him if it is ok to express sorrow, sympathy and support for a fellow human being? It is my belief that it is arrogant, narrow-minded and self-righteous to imply that respect should be withheld from people with different religous orientation.<<<
Seminole, that’s what makes the whole thing so interesting. Frankly, most Muslims don’t go looking for Fatwas to express respect to people of other beliefs. In fact most Muslims don’t even know that such Fatwas exist. If they did, they will get another Fatwa nullifying the earlier one. Trust me on that.
I will even go and attend a friends Dog's funeral if I liked him/her. Doesn't make me nay less of a Muslim than anyone else.
But it does Gall me that these guys are so ready with their Fatwas. Have fatwa will travel !!
religen should not replace common sense. pt when you live with non-mulims and you are a minority you cant act as isolationist. that creates tension ,alienation and mistrust.
Seminole,
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by seminole:
Is that what "religion" is all about? Separating humanity (we are ALL ONE under God) based on different beliefs? Implying that the suffering and loss of a non-believer's loved one is any less than one of your own?
[/QUOTE]
But is God ONE above humanity? For verily it is the Christians who seperate humanity my preching the trinity!
It would have been nice if you had read the whole of my post before turning emotional.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Hasnain:
He said that it was permissible to pay respects and to give condolences to the non-Muslim families of the deceased, by asking them to be patient etc
[/QUOTE]
[quote]
Originally posted by Seminole:
*Does one really need to intensely read and study centuries-old rules, blindly follow scholars and fatwas to tell him if it is ok to express sorrow, sympathy and support for a fellow human being? *
[/quote]
It is exactly because of this attitude that the Christians lost the true message of their Religion and began to alter their texts.
We do show sorrow, sympathy and support for a fellow humans, which is precisely why we are trying to save them from the Hell Fire, when we tell them that " There is no diety worthy of worship except Allaah (God)"
And what do you do? You continue to keep people in the dark and wilderness by allowing them to do what they please. Surely, a father does not allow his child to go astray! He lays down the rules and regulations that he wants his child to abide by and expects it from him/her.
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Seminole:
It is my belief that it is arrogant, narrow-minded and self-righteous to imply that respect should be withheld from people with different religous orientation.
[/QUOTE]
And "it is my belief that it is arrogant, narrow-minded and self-righteous to" ascribe partners to the Creator in worship. Surely, His Majesty, The Creator, of all that exists between the heavens and the earth has more right than His creation?
"No leaf falls except that He knows of it, and no rain drop forms except that he has willed it."
Chalthai,
And this 'faith' is based on facts. If you do not think so, then please, open another thread, and we can discuss it further.
"No leaf falls except that He knows of it, and no rain drop forms except that He has willed it."
The most pathetically self-righteous and holier-than-thou statement that I ever heard has always been:
[quote]
we are trying to save them from the Hell Fire, when we tell them that " There is no diety worthy of worship except Allaah (God)
[/quote]
You don't really give a damn about the salvation of the non-believers. You only want them to convert to strengthen your own believes and overcome your own insecurities.
We have gone down this road aplenty. In the end you will try to prove to me that Islam is word of god because it is written in the koran. I am going to tell you that just because it is written in the Koran it doesn't make it a word of god and that you are using the koran to validate the writings in the koran.Circular logic and all.
So in the end I will agree to that it's a faith issue. There is nothing wrong with you believing that islam is the ultimate religion, and me thinking that it's a mere pup in the world of great religions and god can manifest in many ways, Allah being one. TO assume otherwise will not take you to hell (because there is no such thing) but you might comeback as a cockroach as some of my buddhist and hindu friends think.
So the question of whether PT should go to the funeral is not whether by going he is diminishing the faith he has in Allah. But to find out whether he has faith in humanity. And for that Allah, ram, Buddha, Jesus, who ever and what ever you want to call him/her/it/them will be thankful.
Oh look! Well what do we have here? I see monad is back ... mispelt your name somewhere down the line?
I'm just here to spread the word.
You're right, i don't care about the salvation of non-Muslims, which is precisely why i spend time in this forum inviting them to Islaam!
... yes that makes a lot of sense! Well then, i suppose it would to a 5th grader!
I must say, you're quite an emotional chap!
Nevermind, as miserable as it may make you, i would also love to invite you to Islaam monad.
&peace
"No leaf falls except that He knows of it, and no raindrop forms except that He has willed it."
If only I knew u had a brain and not a peanut up there I would have been a littel less harsh on u …
ps regards to u know whom 
You know what Chaltahai, i think i'm gonna open a new thread just for you ...
You people need to stop, seriously. Chaltahai - as a muslim, I respect your views and your right to hold them. I'm sure by frequenting the religion forum, you're learning about Islam, and in the end it is your right to accept or reject.
Dont listen to the others. They really dont have the right to throw out insults to you like that.
I do have a question. What about a non-muslim attending the funeral of a muslim?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PyariCgudia: *
You people need to stop, seriously. Chaltahai - as a muslim, I respect your views and your right to hold them. I'm sure by frequenting the religion forum, you're learning about Islam, and in the end it is your right to accept or reject.
Dont listen to the others. They really dont have the right to throw out insults to you like that.
I do have a question. What about a non-muslim attending the funeral of a muslim?
[/QUOTE]
PCG: You are correct that I am learning quite a bit about Islam. Both good and bad. It has nothing to do with accepting it as a faith or rejecting it. I have as much respect for Allah as I do for Ram and Jesus and Siddharth or Yehova. The good about islam is what is good in all the other religions. TO the surprise of the thekedars of hinduism or christianity or islam there is a lot of bad as well in the practices that people live by and recite by rote. When people point to scripture to point out some imagined superiority and authencity of their religion, I laugh. Because that is where religion stops being spiritual and starts being offensive.
Look at the countless railings against hindus or idol worshippers in this forum, do you honestly think god cannot manifest itself in a murti? Is it so limited? Let us not forget about the message that all religions bring that of putting humanity before self. Faith should drive unity among the masses not divisions.
So PT, as much as I rail against your economic posts, you should go to the funeral of the kaffir and pray to your god for the family that is left behind just like you would have if the family was muslim.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Hasnain: *
Seminole,
But is God ONE above humanity? For verily it is the Christians who seperate humanity my preching the trinity!
[/quote]
The Trinity concept is to bring humanity closer to God. Most Christians I know believe in one God. Irregardless, that is irrevelant to the statement "We are all one under God".
[quote]
It would have been nice if you had read the whole of my post before turning emotional.
[/quote]
My emotions are in check, I assure you. But religion and spirituality are more than just mere "facts" for me.
[quote]
It is exactly because of this attitude that the Christians lost the true message of their Religion and began to alter their texts.
[/quote]
What attitude? Emotions? Honest? Common sense? And why do my words speak for Christianity? Did I claim so?
You say my words speak for Christianity - which they don't - but my "attitude" exhibits why Christians have gone astray - which puts that theory to rest.
[quote]
We do show sorrow, sympathy and support for a fellow humans, which is precisely why we are trying to save them from the Hell Fire, when we tell them that " There is no diety worthy of worship except Allaah (God)"
[/quote]
How righteous and pious of you, I'm not worthy! Remind me to thank you next time a loved one dies and you shower me with your sorrow, sympathy and support via lectures of herecy, immorality and burning in hell.
[quote]
And what do you do? You continue to keep people in the dark and wilderness by allowing them to do what they please. Surely, a father does not allow his child to go astray! He lays down the rules and regulations that he wants his child to abide by and expects it from him/her.
[/quote]
Who exactly is "you"? Me personally? Christianity? People like me? Heretics? I can only speak for myself, I am not so presumptious to know it all, or to say that any one "religion" or any one "sect" of any one religion, or any "individual" of any one sect of any religion knows it all.
[quote]
And "it is my belief that it is arrogant, narrow-minded and self-righteous to" ascribe partners to the Creator in worship. Surely, His Majesty, The Creator, of all that exists between the heavens and the earth has more right than His creation?
[/quote]
They are many ways to worship God. Only He knows best. God has been revealed to many different people in many different ways. As much as you'd like to think YOU know the TRUTH...
I could listen to dozens of people, with varying faiths (and levels thereof), that would NOT once ask the "religion" of the deceased before deciding the worthiness of attending their funeral. It's about mutual respect, tolerance and non-judgement.