Atheism

[psyah]

Re: Atheism

@SaeedinPakistan

Agnosticism is a lot easier to defend. “I simply don’t know if there is a god or not.”

It seems you have equated agnosticism to being lazy … Belief is not about knowing God is there… It is about trusting that God is there and knowing that that trust can be built into a type of conviction that is attained without using our eyes, but our hearts.

Atheist = I see nothing, therefore there is nothing
Agnostic = I see nothing, I can’t say if anything is there or not
Believer = I see nothing, but everything else suggests that there must be something

[TLK]

Re: Atheism

@philosophy

arrey, lagta hai ap to sab kuch personally ley gaye

he is known as psyahsaurs amongst mod team

[TLK]

Re: Atheism

Those who think that great great grandfathers were monkeys, say aye

[rommel]

Re: Atheism

@SaeedinPakistan

Agnosticism is a lot easier to defend. “I simply don’t know if there is a god or not.”

then read and study untill you come to a conclusion islam is not for people of blind faith even though many are muslim just because of their parents.

the conviction one way or the other will only happen when you study, comprehend and have conclusion.

[psyah]

Re: Atheism

@TLK

he is known as psyahsaurs amongst mod team

Flying high psyah soars
Falls then shows his psyah sores
Saved from becoming psyah sauce
Turns to DIY psyah saws
In that boat are psyah’s oars
Those aren’t really psyah’s whores
They’re just trying to save the psyahsaurs

[SaeedinPakistan]

Re: Atheism

@rommel

then read and study untill you come to a conclusion islam is not for people of blind faith even though many are muslim just because of their parents.

the conviction one way or the other will only happen when you study, comprehend and have conclusion.

Tried that. Didn’t work for me. It’s not like I’ve never studied Islam or offered Salat. I’ve relapsed into Islam several times. But this time I feel like I’m done with it, for good.

[psyah]

Re: Atheism

@rommel

then read and study untill you come to a conclusion islam is not for people of blind faith even though many are muslim just because of their parents.

the conviction one way or the other will only happen when you study, comprehend and have conclusion.

@SaeedinPakistan

Tried that. Didn’t work for me. It’s not like I’ve never studied Islam or offered Salat. I’ve relapsed into Islam several times. But this time I feel like I’m done with it, for good.

Peace rommel and SaeedinPakistan

If studying Islam makes us better Muslims then the best Muslims should be the Orientalists … You see there is not any amount of study that will keep you in faith … Faith is something given to us by Allah (SWT)

And We did not send any messenger except [speaking] in the language of his people to state clearly for them, and Allah sends astray [thereby] whom He wills and guides whom He wills. And He is the Exalted in Might, the Wise.

Surat 'Ibrahim [14:4] - The Noble Qur’an - ??? ???

And SaeedinPakistan only proves this verse. Also, notice how this hadith seems to be speaking of SaeedinPakistan:

- The Prophet Muhammad (SAW) said:"There will come a time when holding on to your Iman (belief) will be like** holding on to hot coals" **Sounds a lot like your relapsing doesn’t it? But alas SaeedinPakistan please read the following hadith too !!!
**- On the authority of Anas, who said: I heard the messenger of Allah say:
**
**Allah the Almighty said: “O son of Adam, so long as you call upon Me and ask of Me, I shall forgive you for what you have done, and I shall not mind. O son of Adam, were your sins to reach the clouds of the sky and were you then to ask forgiveness of Me, I would forgive you. O son of Adam, were you to come to Me with sins nearly as great as the earth and were you then to face Me, ascribing no parter to Me, I would bring you forgiveness nearly as great as its.”

**Ahadith like this one are anchors for faith in a different way … although Islam appeals to reason, it also appeals to our passions and hearts and offers us a way of bringing happiness in to our lives.

[the_kaur]

Re: Atheism

@TLK

Those who think that great great grandfathers were monkeys, say aye

Mine would have been most uncivilized class of monkeys, some are still Just Animal Type:D

[psyah]

Re: Atheism

@the_kaur

Mine would have been most uncivilized class of monkeys, some are still Just Animal Type:D

Was this intentional … ???

“Just Animal Type” - doesn’t that mean JAT ???

As for civilised monkeys (well chimps) … here is proof

[Shamraz_Khan]

Re: Atheism

@The_Jinx

In one of the discussions, I remember you alluded to amputating a thief as a barbaric act. Reading you response here, I am assuming that you called it a barbaric act because you think it’s man-made. Is that a correct inference?

Yes, it is a man made b/c you can’t prove it to me that it is not. The concept of eye for an eye comes from Old Testament, btw.

[Shamraz_Khan]

Re: Atheism

@psyah

Viewing established organised religion as “wisdom of the ages” is in my view an insult to divine revelation, but to many agnostics they consider that statement a fitting description. Even then I could not imagine that you view your own intellect better than the ideas culminated by establish religion.

I do not claim to know all the answers, but what I know is that you don’t need a religion to find a God. And, no, you don’t have to follow established religions either just b/c everyone else is doing it. To me, we are all energy and energy has always existed; will always exist long after we are gone.

[psyah]

Re: Atheism

@Shamraz_Khan

I do not claim to know all the answers, but what I know is that you don’t need a religion to find a God. And, no, you don’t have to follow established religions either just b/c everyone else is doing it. To me, we are all energy and energy has always existed; will always exist long after we are gone.

Peace Shamraz Khan

For a person who is not quite sure … these are quite bold statements to be making.
All of these are also “mad-made” concepts …

1. You claim “that we don’t need a religion to find God” - This is “man-made”
2. Don’t have to follow established religions - This is “man-made”
3. We are all energy - This is a “man-made” concept
4. Energy and that it will exist always is a “man-made” concept and your belief

It is not as if you are attributing these ideas to God … no, you are taking credit for these ideas yourself … aren’t you?

[the_kaur]

Re: Atheism

@psyah

Was this intentional … ???

“Just Animal Type” - doesn’t that mean JAT ???

As for civilised monkeys (well chimps) … here is proof

You decoded it right:D
I didn’t mean to say there aren’t civilized monkeys, I only meant mine must have been most uncivilized one:D

[The_Jinx]

Re: Atheism

@Shamraz_Khan

Yes, it is a man made b/c you can’t prove it to me that it is not. The concept of eye for an eye comes from Old Testament, btw.

Interesting. So, I can not prove to you if this law of cutting hands of a thief is not man-made. fair enough. I can only prove to you if you believe Quran to be Words of God, otherwise not. Either you are saying that Quran is not the word of God and you do not believe in it or you are simply ignorant of the religion you follow (assuming you are muslim looking at your name). In the first case, there is no argument in proving my point since you do not believe in the book yourself and it is quite fine.

But if you have not read it before, here is the reference from Quran and it is direct translation so no excuse of interpretation:

**
Surah 5 Ayat 38:
**

“As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise.”

[Zapatista]

Re: Atheism

@The_Jinx

But if you have not read it before, here is the reference from Quran and it is direct translation so no excuse of interpretation:

**
Surah 5 Ayat 38:
**

“As for the thief, both male and female, cut off their hands. It is the reward of their own deeds, an exemplary punishment from Allah. Allah is Mighty, Wise.”

This Ayah, is most definitely misinterpreted and seems more like the law of the Mullah than Allah SWT. I don’t think Allah SWT would ever order someone’s hands, arms or legs to be amputated because of stealing. Allah SWT is indeed the most wise and most merciful.

[The_Jinx]

Re: Atheism

@Zapatista

This Ayah, is most definitely misinterpreted and seems more like the law of the Mullah than Allah SWT. I don’t think Allah SWT would ever order someone’s hands, arms or legs to be amputated because of stealing. Allah SWT is indeed the most wise and most merciful.

It’s getting more interesting.

I said, this is the translation and not interpretation. Since you are so sure, prove me that the arabic words of ayat don’t mean to cut the hands of a thief becaues that’s what you are claiming without any knowledge.

Now, if you study this “law” from the sunnah of Prophet and his rightly guided Caliphs, you will know that there are valid pre requisite to implement this law. Bottom line, if state can not provide food to its residents, then, the law can not be in practice Islamically. Allah is definitely mighty wise. It’s a shame that we do not even bother to learn the religion but follow the hearsay or our own intuition as if religion is being revealed to us directly.

[TLK]

Re: Atheism

I am surprised that when people talk about Islamic punishments and say that Allah is merciful, they are always thinking from the cirminal’s point of view and never from the victims point of view. Alah is merciful, but his mercy is for the innocents and those who got robbed, and not for the thief who robbed them of their life’s possessions.

[bennylava]

Re: Atheism

lol. What allah would like/do/not do. you can’t ‘‘think’’ what he ‘would’ order or not , if you believe in the islamic concept of God that is.

[psyah]

Re: Atheism

@TLK

I am surprised that when people talk about Islamic punishments and say that Allah is merciful, they are always thinking from the cirminal’s point of view and never from the victims point of view. Alah is merciful, but his mercy is for the innocents and those who got robbed, and not for the thief who robbed them of their life’s possessions.

Peace TLK bhai

Allah (SWT)'s Mercy is for both the victim and the thief … !!!

The Mercy to the victim is shown by giving the penalty to the thief, the mercy to the thief is achieved by preventing him from earning the sin of theft … This world is all about sin and reward and for a surety if a penal system can prevent people from earning sin then that system is a blessing for them in the world where it counts - The Aakhira …

[Zapatista]

Re: Atheism

@TLK

I am surprised that when people talk about Islamic punishments and say that Allah is merciful, they are always thinking from the cirminal’s point of view and never from the victims point of view. Alah is merciful, but his mercy is for the innocents and those who got robbed, and not for the thief who robbed them of their life’s possessions.

I’m not talking about mercy for the robber that he is not punished at all. I’m talking about mercy in the long run. Cutting off the hand or arm of a human being will handicap them for life and will not only affect their own life, but also the life of their family (Which in most cases are also innocent). I don’t understand in what way the victim is getting juctice If the arm of the robber is cut off. It makes much more sense If the thief is made to pay back what they stole.

Also this law would not make sense If the thief doesn’t have any arms of feet to be cut off in the first place. What is there to be cut off then? What if there was a HUGE mistake, and the robber wasn’t actually The robber, but their arm is cut off now? I’m pretty sure they can bear giving up a part of their wealth or put to work to pay back the stolen amount, but cutting off an arm of leg is a totally different level.

Allah SWT’s law is not unjust.